buyer's obligation poll

[begsu1013]

just a quick poll on a hypothetical scenario and gather the overall consensus of a "what would you do?" situation....

seller "a" lists graded sports card.

seller "a" lists a card that is worth $500.

this card also has a variation that in a same grade would be worth $800 - $1000.

flip does not state that it is the more valuable variation, however it is.

variation is considered a somewhat obscure version and let's just say 50-75% of the collecting world has no clue about it.

the buyer does know about the variation.

this is not necessarily considered a listing error along the lines of listing something at $200 when seller meant to list at $2000.

more along the lines of a more informed buyer.

should he buy or notify?


***keeping it simple***

there's only 2 options

it's a split second decision.

and someone else could pull the trigger at any moment.

[rhettyeakley]

Knowledge is power and if you have done the research and know something the seller doesn't I see no reason to inform them. IMO the burden is on a seller to know what they are selling. That being said I have on occasion purposely bought something else off a seller that I knew I was getting a great deal from as a sort of "thank you" for allowing me to get a great deal.

I remember when I was quite a bit younger (maybe 15-16 years old or so) at a show I tried to inform an older dealer that he had made a mistake on a card and it was worth more, he told me to F*** off and got pissed, I learned my lesson that day it is best not to patronize the seller and to just buy the good deal and walk away.

[sbfinley]

At that price variation I see no problem in making the purchase, it's borderline wholesale.

[tschock]

Sorry, for me you need an "It depends" option as there is a wide spectrum here. I will readily share my knowledge with sellers who I have known for years and who have always done right by me (and fellow collectors). Then there are those sellers who routinely lowball on offers, whine and moan when you even ask on a better price, and/or just treat their 'customers' like crap. For those I have no problem NOT pointing out variations that could garner them more money. And I applied both cases at a show this weekend.

I probably use more of a "What goes around comes around" type of philosophy when dealing with this. Which is probably applicable to me in the way I deal with this as well.

[4815162342]

I voted to notify. The guilt will eat you alive!

[conor912]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

I learned my lesson that day it is best not to patronize the seller and to just buy the good deal and walk away.

This. No good deed goes unpunished. Although not intentional, by notifying, you run the very real risk of making the seller feel like an idiot. By buying, they got their asking price and everyone is happy. The moral of the story: don't be a hero.

[kmac32]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

Knowledge is power and if you have done the research and know something the seller doesn't I see no reason to inform them. IMO the burden is on a seller to know what they are selling. That being said I have on occasion purposely bought something else off a seller that I knew I was getting a great deal from as a sort of "thank you" for allowing me to get a great deal.

I remember when I was quite a bit younger (maybe 15-16 years old or so) at a show I tried to inform an older dealer that he had made a mistake on a card and it was worth more, he told me to F*** off and got pissed, I learned my lesson that day it is best not to patronize the seller and to just buy the good deal and walk away.

Agreed, falls under the category of know your cards. Sellers do not hesitate to try and get the most from their cards at shows including sometimes trying to overcharge for cards so catching an occasional break is okay.

[Exhibitman]

A fool and his money were lucky to get together in the first place. If you don't know what you're selling you shouldn't be selling it and if the slabber FUBARed it, shame on the both of them.

BIN and enjoy.

[drcy]

I quit giving unsolicited authenticity/identity/dating information to eBay sellers long ago after many angry responses. I figured "No one's paying me, why do I need the heartburn?" My personal rule is I will give my opinion if asked, and if not asked I'll assume the seller or buyer isn't interested in it.

And board members and others who have sent me messages and emails will testify I am free in giving information and opinions about items when asked.

[Rookiemonster]

Pull the trigger and ask If he has anymore !

[vintagetoppsguy]

96 - 5

I think this poll is being shilled

[grainsley]

If a seller doesn't know the product he is trying to flog, perhaps he shouldn't be selling it in the first place.

[Republicaninmass]

At the risk of sounding like an idiot, which hasnt stopped me before, according to ebay's term and conditions


A sale on ebay is a buying agreement.

Taken from ebay for buyers:

"You enter into a legally binding contract to purchase an item when you commit to buy an item or if you have the winning bid (or your bid is otherwise accepted)."


Taken from ebay for sellers:

"Sellers aren't allowed to cancel bids and end listings early in order to avoid selling an item that did not meet a desired sale price. This is considered to be a violation of our reserve price policy."

"If the listing ends and there is a winning bidder: Contact the bidder and explain the situation. If you and the bidder agree not to complete the sale, you can cancel the transaction from My eBay. "

Is this punishable or enforceable in a court of law?


If so how would be damages be calculated? Say a pricing error for card was at $200, and according to the last vcp sales the card sells for $10,000?


Not that I would pursue legal action against a seller unless it was a huge amount like the example above, but just out of curiosity what would happen?



I'd vote the judge throws you out for wasting time and the attorneys on both sides get paid!

[bobbyw8469]

The poll is a little biased. I wouldn't say anything, but I also wouldn't get pissed if the seller cancelled the sale.

[begsu1013]

Originally Posted by kmac32

Sellers do not hesitate to try and get the most from their cards at shows including sometimes trying to overcharge for cards so catching an occasional break is okay.

pretty hard to argue against this one...

[Steve D]

This scenario actually happened to me back in 2008. At the time, I was working on my T206 set. I found a PSA 4 Kleinow (NY) on ebay, and in looking at the listing, I noticed that although the flip said "New York", the card was actually the "Boston" variation. The card was listed as a normal 7-day auction, not a BIN. I bid on the card, and won it for ~65. Evidently, no one else saw the card and noticed the discrepancy.

Ironically, it took me until 2013 to pick up a Kleinow (NY), paying just over $100. It was also a PSA 4.


Steve

[egri]

I've had something similar happen to me twice while working on my project. The sellers (different seller each time) mislabeled the cards, so anyone searching for autographed 1953 Topps would have missed them. They were both BIN/OBOs. The first time it happened, I made a strong first offer, which was accepted (3/4 of the asking price). The second time, he and I went back and forth a few times, but I ended up giving him most of what he was looking for, and still think I got a pretty good deal.

[Peter_Spaeth]

A few years back, a major auction house listed some cards from a significant collection for direct sale at a very substantial discount to market prices; what clearly happened is that an employee had used SMR to price the cards but for the particular issue SMR was ridiculously underpriced. I happened to see the listing very shortly after it was online. I called with every intention of buying several of the cards, but as the phone was ringing it just didn't feel right, and I ended up telling the person who answered of the mistake.

[Rookiemonster]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

A few years back, a major auction house listed some cards from a significant collection for direct sale at a very substantial discount to market prices; what clearly happened is that an employee had used SMR to price the cards but for the particular issue SMR was ridiculously underpriced. I happened to see the listing very shortly after it was online. I called with every intention of buying several of the cards, but as the phone was ringing it just didn't feel right, and I ended up telling the person who answered of the mistake.

Damn good man ! In that case I don't know if I could buy . That might be someone's job .

[begsu1013]

understood, as well ya shoulda!

and again why i didn't use a pricing error in the poll, ie typo on $200 when it was clearly was $2000. or even $2000 when it was supposed to be $20,000.

completely different ballpark and those would be obvious transcribing errors.

this is completely different:

this is more based upon the lines of a well/more informed buyer and the seller getting exactly what he asked for the card.

[xplainer]

I focus in backs. Some sellers just list Piedmont, Sweet Caporal or whatever. These backs are not of equal value, but some just don't know it.

I would buy at set price. They get what they want, and I do too.

It is a matter of knowing what you are selling and what you are buying. I just learned the latter today. More on that later....maybe.

[Jewish-collector]

Sometimes you just gotta say, "WTF"

[steve B]

I haven't had that happen with cards in a long time. So much of the stuff is so well known and there's a lot of pricing info available, so the deals aren't all that common. I have picked up ungraded cards that did very well but I suppose didn't do well because of bad scans or a less than great listing.

Now in my other hobbies.........
Stamps - The area I collect has a lot of varieties that are worth a LOT more than the normal version. But most dealers can't be bothered to learn what to look for. So I've gotten a lot of BIN deals where I paid a reasonable or even high price for what the normal stamp is, but a silly price for the variety- Like 2250 catalog for 18.50 with free shipping. Most are more in the range of 10% of catalog instead of the usual price around 50%
Or similarly mislisted stuff with really bad auction planning. Rare variety not mentioned but the auction is listed on Ebay UK, with a seller in Norway who decides to end it at 9AM EST Easter Sunday? Yep, I'm all over that one.

But learning about the varieties took years and a membership in a national club whose magazine published a series of articles on the plate varieties. So Loads of time spent gaining the knowledge.

In the old bicycle stuff the info just isn't out there. And lots of people list stuff with really bad pictures.

Even now I'm often the only bidder on some really great stuff.
Helmets from the national team in the 80's. Really just fiberglass shells with a chin strap. I've found a set of 4 from 1983 one from maybe 85 and another from 86 or 87. All race worn, some with the riders name written inside. Nobody bid on them but me. (Maybe proof I'm just crazy? )

Mid 90's time trial bike without brand decals. Listing claimed it was ridden by one famous rider AND a then current star in the us who was expected to race in Europe soonish. Of course a nonsense story, she was smaller and he was larger and there was no proof at all. Took a chance on it at a price that I'd be happy even of it was just that model bike (Not a common bike and while it was missing parts most of the really special stuff was still there) When it came, the shipping label showed the US pro rider as the shipper, and the seatpost has both their names scratched into it. Plus I found out they were on the same team.

So if the seller won't do the research I don't feel bad about getting a deal.

I have pointed stuff out to dealers I like in all hobbies. At one point even not bidding on stuff at an auction where nearly everyone left before the last hundred or so items because of a snowstorm. Min bid was $10 on almost everything and there were some great deals to be had but I just stuck to the handful I really wanted. They put the stuff in the next auction and did very well so it worked out.

Steve B