Poll: Is this Cobb legit, or is it a "rotten peach"?

[travrosty]

Here is an autograph with PSA slabbed certification that is a subject of controversy. Haulsofshame reported on it being pulled from ebay. You can go read the story if you haven't already to gain some background on this autograph.

Do you think this autograph of Cobb is an exact replication of the autograph that Ron K. has, or is a totally different autograph as the owner of the autograph has claimed, or are you undecided?

I have shown Ron's autograph of Cobb, also the Cobb in the slab, and my diagram of the slabbed autograph showing that there are stray dots on Ron's example that also show up on the slabbed autograph, possible evidence of the background also being scanned and replicated along with the autograph in my opinion.

But make up your own mind. What do you think?


p.s. there is a fourth option, that being that the slabbed cobb is legit, and ron k's is the facsimile, but i havent added that as an option because i believe that option to be incredibly remote as to not even be a possibility. If you think that is the case, just post and mention that that is what you think has happened.

I have also added the owners comments on why he believes it is a totally different signature, in the name of fairness. And here it is.

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I spent half of the night looking at both specimens in question. I noticed a few differences in the two autos. Would really like some others feedback.

In the so called "original" as Mr. Nash calls it, where the "T" in Ty makes an "X", going up & left from the center of the "X" there is a distinct dot where it appears the pen sat longer. There is no dot in mine. Where the "T" in Ty makes a "J", there appears to be more space in the Keurajian copy. The "X" in the Ty is again, going downward & left from the center of the "X" in the "original" the pen mark becomes immediately thinner in the "original". This does not happen in mine. In the "C" on the "original", as the "C" is coming down left to right, the "C" appears quite circular & the ink thins as it is coming down. The "C" in mine is not quite as circular at the top & does not thin as it comes down. The first "B" in Cobb on the "original"....from the very top coming down the ink gets thinner. Mine does not get thinner until closer to the "o" part of the "B". Also....look closely at both "o" parts of the first "B" in Cobb. They do not flow the same. Also.....look at the line connecting the two "B's" in both autos. The "original" gets thinner as it connects to the second "B". Mine gets thicker. Last, but not least.....look at the line under Cobb's name. There is a small hump directly under the 2nd "B" in mine & after the "Y" as well. The Keurajian copy does not have either of these small humps in the line below Cobb's name. They are very subtle, but blow up the Keurajian copy to the same size as my copy, and you will notice that this is not the same auto.

[smotan_02]

Where is the button that says you should just leave this alone until Donavon is able to report back on the findings of his research. This was beat to death in the BST section. I am beginning to question your intentions....

[travrosty]

People asked that it be moved out of that section and into memorabilia. Most people hadn't seen it over there.

what's wrong with asking questions? What are my intentions then?

To get his findings from the re-evaluation from psa is to get an opinion from the same people who said it was good in the first place. They will either stick with it being legit in their opinion or say it's bad.

but so what? Polls are taken to get people's opinion. Why sacred cows? If this was a CC poll I don't think anyone would have a problem with it.

[smotan_02]

Your poll is drastically skewed. Everything from your title to the verbiage in your post shows where you stand on this autograph. You further muddy the water by posting your "detective" work. If you wanted to truly know what people thought of the auto, you would have just posted the two pictures and asked people's opinion. Instead, you are trying to get "data" to show the board "I was right, I called it, look at me."

If you need academic jargon to show my point, google "experimenter bias"

I was interested in autograph collecting for a short period, but the vileness of the auto collectors that I see post here has completely cured me of that insanity.

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by smotan_02

Your poll is drastically skewed. Everything from your title to the verbiage in your post shows where you stand on this autograph. You further muddy the water by posting your "detective" work. If you wanted to truly know what people thought of the auto, you would have just posted the two pictures and asked people's opinion. Instead, you are trying to get "data" to show the board "I was right, I called it, look at me."

If you need academic jargon to show my point, google "experimenter bias"

I was interested in autograph collecting for a short period, but the vileness of the auto collectors that I see post here has completely cured me of that insanity.

i have just posted the owners comment on the cobb too, so it is fair and people can make up their own mind.

my opinion carries no more weight than his. This isn't a scientific poll, it's not a scientific experiment, it's an opinion poll, and people have eyes and can compare for themselves and make up their own mind.

[keithsky]

I agree with Smotan 02. Why is this talked about again. Let it go till Donovan finds out his finding then we can all talk about again which I'm sure will happen.

[chaddurbin]

Originally Posted by smotan_02

I was interested in autograph collecting for a short period, but the vileness of the auto collectors that I see post here has completely cured me of that insanity.

same...i'm going back to enjoying my steve avery jim abbott and gregg jefferies autos. if they're fake i'm out a lunch, but faking those guys would be like reprinting the '87 topps set.

[drc]

I don't think Jim Abbott and Steve Avery would cover the tip.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by smotan_02

I was interested in autograph collecting for a short period, but the vileness of the auto collectors that I see post here has completely cured me of that insanity.

I remember watching women go after beany babies around Christmas. Now, that was vileness.

[smotan_02]

I'm amazed that no one has discussed that this could be the same auto. That would explain a lot.

[batsballsbases]

Originally Posted by smotan_02

Your poll is drastically skewed. Everything from your title to the verbiage in your post shows where you stand on this autograph. You further muddy the water by posting your "detective" work. If you wanted to truly know what people thought of the auto, you would have just posted the two pictures and asked people's opinion. Instead, you are trying to get "data" to show the board "I was right, I called it, look at me."

If you need academic jargon to show my point, google "experimenter bias"

I was interested in autograph collecting for a short period, but the vileness of the auto collectors that I see post here has completely cured me of that insanity.

Couldnt have said it better myself! Take 2 100+ out of petty cash!

[Deertick]

Is it possible both were done by an autopen? It would explain the *slight* differences the owner is claiming. Any other reproduction method would be readily apparent under 7X magnfication.

The tell for me would be the length / positioning of the underscore. Almost impossible to reproduce.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Deertick

Is it possible both were done by an autopen? It would explain the *slight* differences the owner is claiming. Any other reproduction method would be readily apparent under 7X magnfication.

The tell for me would be the length / positioning of the underscore. Almost impossible to reproduce.

There has never been even a hint of Cobb having an autopen.

[packs]

What about a forger creating an auto pen? I'm having a hard time believing an authentication company can't tell if a pen has made a signature or if a signature was lazer printed.

[RichardSimon]

There was an elaborate report on a web site called Autograph Alert, which outlined in detail how PSA authenticated laser prints as real. All it takes is sloppiness and not bothering to remove the autograph from its holder or plastic sheet.

[travrosty]

You would think their company name was CSI with all the fancy equipment they like to brag about like pro-scopes and spectral comparator machines, but all that is useless if you don't look at it closely with the greatest piece of equipment available - that being your own eyes, up close with an intent to do a complete, thorough job. One of the first steps in authenticating is to make sure its not a preprint, reprint, autopen, laser scan, etc.

Some of those that got passed were still in the frames, with the sticker being placed on the back of the frame. JSA proudly admits on its facebook site that they have no problem authenticating the autograph directly through the frame, so no need to take the item out. They passed an autographed ball still in the sealed cube holder. They claim to have special magnifying equipment that can look through the plexiglass and tell them if it is authentic or not. I still prefer to see the item in person, closeup, with my own eyes, with nothing in the way, i.e. frames, glass, and ballcubes. But that's me. I am sure Richard is the same way.

But if someone comes to a show with a Michael Jordan jersey framed in a 400 dollar frame, and they don't want to take it out, the authentication company has to decide to pass up that piece or decide to take their submission money and authenticate it through the frame. Guess which one they choose?

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by packs

What about a forger creating an auto pen? I'm having a hard time believing an authentication company can't tell if a pen has made a signature or if a signature was lazer printed.

They should also be able to tell if it was an autopen versus a real signature too. Autopens shouldn't be able to fool them. But Cobb never had an autopen, if he did we would see more of these.

But it's neither here nor there as it has been shown there are stray dots that show up on both the original, and the laser printed scan, that means the autograph as well as the background was scanned, and reproduced for the cut and the stray dots were replicated too. It's a scan that was printed on old paper probably and then printed with a modern printer and then cut down irregularly to make it look like it was cut from something. That's my theory. But no word yet from PSA or Donovan, wonder why?

[yanks12025]

I think you guys are right in that we'll never hear back from him. Maybe Leon can give him a call, cause doesn't he have to put a phone number to register.

[RichardSimon]

We won't hear from him if he has some agreement with PSA which would entail a refund to him of some sorts in return for his silence.

[chaddurbin]

according to their site cert # still shows an authentic cobb...maybe they haven't got to it.

if psa will fully reimburse donavon for his exchange of silence then i say good for him. he doesn't owe us anything. telling leon to call him is ridiculous!

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

according to their site cert # still shows an authentic cobb...maybe they haven't got to it.

if psa will fully reimburse donavon for his exchange of silence then i say good for him. he doesn't owe us anything. telling leon to call him is ridiculous!

maybe good for him, but he promised to get back to us with the results from psa. i expect him to keep his word. He does owe us to follow through on what he said he was going to do.

[RichardSimon]

Both of you are right.
Good for him and he does owe us, he did promise to get back to the board. Is his word good? Or does the money trump his word? Stay tuned.
And how about this scenario: PSA determines the autograph is not authentic, PSA reimburses Donovan and that means he will be quiet. PSA keeps the Cobb and destroys it. PSA keeps it in the database and thus never has to concede that it is bad. Sound plausible??
I guess we don't even need Donovan to come back to the board. His silence speaks volumes for himself and for PSA.
However, it would be nice if he did come back and enlighten us as to what he was told by PSA and the promised document examiner that he said he would take the item to.