Rose RC going nuts!

[ajjohnsonsoxfan]

From $2650 to $18,000 in 8 months!

[bobbyw8469]

Notice the same buyer paid those high prices. Not sure if others are.

[swarmee]

There is a post-war forum, I think.

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by swarmee

There is a post-war forum, I think.

Sure there is, but I believe the OP's observation speaks to the hobby as a whole and not just a particular card from 1963. I collect almost exclusively pre-war, but I personally find the rampant inflation on the postwar side to be both fascinating and relevant. Makes me curious about the eventual impact on blue chip pre war cards, and it tends to change my frame of reference when deciding how much to bid on certain cards.

[btcarfagno]

Not exactly a tough to find card in PSA 8. 386 of them.

Gah?

Tom C

[vintagetoppsguy]

I need a '65 Rose in NM condition for my set. I know it's not his rookie, but I was quite surprised to see what this SGC 7 sold for last night. I was willing to pay strong (or at least what I thought was strong), but it went for ridiculous money. PSA 7's have been bringing about $150-$180.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1965-Topps-P...vip=true&rt=nc

On another note, if there is any question in anybody's mind who is the better grader, let's compare a SGC 7 to a PSA 7. Who wins? And that's a new PSA flip too.

[4815162342]

Fleer Jordans are going nuts too. What the heck is going on?!

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Notice the same buyer paid those high prices. Not sure if others are.

i really doubt there are direct deals that reflect the auction pricing...there may be some direct deals with the sole intent to flip with an offer of 30% or more under (or if more than that with the intent to bump the card) the 'going rate' but i doubt there are direct deals for cards going into personal collections for the 'going rate'..

[Taxman]

Psalegends, alflair seem to have a lot in common. Check out the first Rose to sell for 16k then follow that buyer. Answers a lot of questions.

[Leon]

I would prefer threads be in the correct places. But sometimes they do overlap and have relevant info for everyone in the hobby. As for the Rose rookie phenomenon, I agree it looks. to me, like market manipulation by the likes of investors such as Justin and his band of cohorts. I also don't think there are many Rose rookies in 8 holders changing hands in private sales for 16k+.....

As stated with over 380 PSA 8 Rose rookies, I hope those guys have a lot of money. The longer they stay at those artificial plateaus the more will come out and the more they will have to buy to keep the prices inflated. Hopefully they buy them all and everyone else collects other things. That way they can have all of the 8s for themselves and all of their money tied up in them, with no where to go. Last person holding loses, so it seems.

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

Sure there is, but I believe the OP's observation speaks to the hobby as a whole and not just a particular card from 1963. I collect almost exclusively pre-war, but I personally find the rampant inflation on the postwar side to be both fascinating and relevant. Makes me curious about the eventual impact on blue chip pre war cards, and it tends to change my frame of reference when deciding how much to bid on certain cards.

[GregMitch34]

Ha ha, I clicked on this only because I thought it was titled, "Rose PC going nuts!" I wish!

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by GregMitch34

Ha ha, I clicked on this only because I thought it was titled, "Rose PC going nuts!" I wish!

Haha...silly you!

[Taxman]

Sold my PSA 8 for 18k last week off ebay.

[edjs]

Originally Posted by GregMitch34

Ha ha, I clicked on this only because I thought it was titled, "Rose PC going nuts!" I wish!

Me too! lol

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Taxman

Sold my PSA 8 for 18k last week off ebay.

let us know when you see it for sale, with the guy trying to make 30% off of it...

its a pyramid game......the earlier people make money no doubt about it..

[Beastmode]

Originally Posted by Leon

I would prefer threads be in the correct places. But sometimes they do overlap and have relevant info for everyone in the hobby. As for the Rose rookie phenomenon, I agree it looks. to me, like market manipulation by the likes of investors such as Justin and his band of cohorts. I also don't think there are many Rose rookies in 8 holders changing hands in private sales for 16k+.....

As stated with over 380 PSA 8 Rose rookies, I hope those guys have a lot of money. The longer they stay at those artificial plateaus the more will come out and the more they will have to buy to keep the prices inflated. Hopefully they buy them all and everyone else collects other things. That way they can have all of the 8s for themselves and all of their money tied up in them, with no where to go. Last person holding loses, so it seems.

++ correct. If you don't have a boatload of cash, you should definitely stay out of this game. Knowledge is power, and if you don't have that either, you are going to be prey.

[peterose4hof]

What are other cards are being driven up in price by these buying groups?

Michael Jordan RCs
Peter Rose RC
???

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by peterose4hof

What are other cards are being driven up in price by these buying groups?

Michael Jordan RCs
Peter Rose RC
???

Hank Aaron RC
Joe Namath RC
Jim Brown RC
Sandy Koufax RC

[irv]

Originally Posted by Leon

I would prefer threads be in the correct places. But sometimes they do overlap and have relevant info for everyone in the hobby. As for the Rose rookie phenomenon, I agree it looks. to me, like market manipulation by the likes of investors such as Justin and his band of cohorts. I also don't think there are many Rose rookies in 8 holders changing hands in private sales for 16k+.....

As stated with over 380 PSA 8 Rose rookies, I hope those guys have a lot of money. The longer they stay at those artificial plateaus the more will come out and the more they will have to buy to keep the prices inflated. Hopefully they buy them all and everyone else collects other things. That way they can have all of the 8s for themselves and all of their money tied up in them, with no where to go. Last person holding loses, so it seems.

Although I was initially shocked at the final price of that 52 Topps Mathews card the other night, (what really shocked me was the price jump from $8,800 to over $15,000 in the last 5 seconds) imo, that card has a far greater chance of sustaining that price than what these, Rose and other current high POP cards have based on the available numbers alone.

I am unsure the POP of the Mathews, but I'd bet multiple high priced Rose cards, it is far far less than those.

[TNP777]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

those corners are horrific

[bcornell]

Originally Posted by GregMitch34

Ha ha, I clicked on this only because I thought it was titled, "Rose PC going nuts!" I wish!

What's a Rose PC? Maybe the moderator remembers.

[BBB]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Hank Aaron RC

Joe Namath RC

Jim Brown RC

Sandy Koufax RC

Mickey Mantle RC
Clemente RC

[bobbyw8469]

Touche...I forgot about Clemente rookie. Mantle rookie is a gimme. That one should ALWAYS go up, no matter the market. These other ones are plain nuts.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Taxman

Psalegends, alflair seem to have a lot in common. Check out the first Rose to sell for 16k then follow that buyer. Answers a lot of questions.

Sadly there is very little in this business(hobby) that is not being manipulated in some way for personal gain.

Since it is just a hobby for me I avoid all the drama by collecting low end raw cards.

I do really enjoy watching all the price manipulation, shilling, card doctoring, PSA drama, and all the other slimy stuff that goes on in this hobby. I just choose not to partake in it.

[ls7plus]

OK, Leon and the other posters are convincing me of the error of my ways with the info posted on this board. I agree with Pete: there are a lot of lemmings being led by the herd directly off the cliff! The market for key '50's and '60's cards is to much too large an extent being investment driven, or subject to outright manipulation. The prices for anything but '52 Topps Mantles in "7" or "8" or better, Aaron rookies in "9" or better, etc., etc. appear unsustainable--too much, too fast, too soon. That market has all the earmarks of a speculative boom, which will inevitably be followed by a bust. As I said in an earlier post, don't get caught holding items presently sporting very large price tags which are really not all that difficult to obtain. They are readily available because THE SMART COLLECTORS ARE SELLING THEM AND REAPING THEIR PROFITS! These are the ones that will endure the largest price correction when the bloom is fully off the rose. This is a much better time TO BE SELLING THOSE KINDS OF ITEMS, REGARDLESS OF THE PLAYER'S IDENTITY AND STATUS, THAN TO BE BUYING THEM. It kind of reminds me of when I was buying nice, raw '85 Topps McGwires from '92-'98 for $10-$15, then selling them wholesale in August '98 at the National for $65-$85. "8's" retailed at $125 or so then, and "9's" were $500. Gem mint "10's" were being happily purchased for $5K! Prices, as most of you know, soon dropped to much lower levels (they are making a rather stunning comeback lately, however--"10's" have gone from the low $500 range to $800-$1,000 in the last year, while "9's" have risen from the high $20 to low $30 range to $55-$70 during the same time period).

True collectors are either viewing this as a wonderful opportunity to sell, or standing on the sidelines with their jaws having dropped to their navels. Meanwhile, truly rare and significant items not participating in the boom and which are relatively quiet represent a terrific buying opportunity. Remember, things don't stay the same--the only constant is change, and the focus of the hobby WILL shift, just as it has done a number of times over the last 25+ years (I remember a number of years ago when a board member expressed surprise that a 1926-29 Exhibit Postcard Back Lefty Grove rookie was no longer 35 bucks!).

Thanks to Leon and the other posters for keeping me in close touch with the machinations going on.

Best always,

Larry

[RobertGT]

Originally Posted by Leon

I would prefer threads be in the correct places. But sometimes they do overlap and have relevant info for everyone in the hobby. As for the Rose rookie phenomenon, I agree it looks. to me, like market manipulation by the likes of investors such as Justin and his band of cohorts. I also don't think there are many Rose rookies in 8 holders changing hands in private sales for 16k+.....

As stated with over 380 PSA 8 Rose rookies, I hope those guys have a lot of money. The longer they stay at those artificial plateaus the more will come out and the more they will have to buy to keep the prices inflated. Hopefully they buy them all and everyone else collects other things. That way they can have all of the 8s for themselves and all of their money tied up in them, with no where to go. Last person holding loses, so it seems.

I am sorry if I've missed earlier threads on what's happening with skyrocketing RC prices (kinda zoned out of the board for awhile), but can someone explain a bit more who's buying these cards and theories on why? Is the goal to actually invest in these cards and hold them long term, or are we in the middle of a pump and dump scheme where card prices are being artificially inflated and then the cards are dumped on gullible buyers?

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by RobertGT

I am sorry if I've missed earlier threads on what's happening with skyrocketing RC prices (kinda zoned out of the board for awhile), but can someone explain a bit more who's buying these cards and theories on why? Is the goal to actually invest in these cards and hold them long term, or are we in the middle of a pump and dump scheme where card prices are being artificially inflated and then the cards are dumped on gullible buyers?

my belief is the latter.

[botn]

Originally Posted by RobertGT

I am sorry if I've missed earlier threads on what's happening with skyrocketing RC prices (kinda zoned out of the board for awhile), but can someone explain a bit more who's buying these cards and theories on why? Is the goal to actually invest in these cards and hold them long term, or are we in the middle of a pump and dump scheme where card prices are being artificially inflated and then the cards are dumped on gullible buyers?

Rob,

If you have not read this thread http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=223688, it might be a good place to start, assuming nobody edited their original posts.

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Touche...I forgot about Clemente rookie. Mantle rookie is a gimme. That one should ALWAYS go up, no matter the market. These other ones are plain nuts.

I don't disagree with your underlying premise, Bobby, but think its a question of how fast these desireable cards (most especially in higher grades) should be going up. A really good collectible generally is capable of 12% compounded annually, with even larger returns in the short run (15% to 24% or so, in the earlier going). It then slows down with regard to its rate of appreciation as it's value rises into what most of us might call the stratosphere, generally to less than 10% compounded annually. But to me, thanks to the info supplied by Leon and the other knowledgeable posters, you aren't going to see prices doubling on even key, desirable cards within a year or so. In coins and cars, that has traditionally indicated a flood of well-healed investors into the field, with a bust following the boom shortly afterward. Q. David Bowers' books on investing and collecting rare coins are a recommended reference, as he has been involved as a collector, dealer and consummate expert in the field since the '50's, studied the far lengthier coin hobby trends exhaustively, and is more than well familiar with the cause and effects of collecting trends.

Best of luck to you in your collecting always,

Larry

[Neal]

Originally Posted by btcarfagno

Not exactly a tough to find card in PSA 8. 386 of them.

Gah?

Tom C

389 to be exact .... 60 of them have a qualifier

I would guess that the number is not going to climb that much, and I would also guess that PSA does not include the ones that may have been crossed to SGC or Beckett

329 is not that high of a pop

[begsu1013]

another postwar thread where it doesn't belong!!*



have a good father's day weekend errybody.











* completely kidding of course, but had to.

[stargell1]

Funny just 6 months ago I put up a rose rookie PSA 8 and couldn't sell it for $3000. Glad now no one pulled the trigger

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by stargell1

Funny just 6 months ago I put up a rose rookie PSA 8 and couldn't sell it for $3000. Glad now no one pulled the trigger

Yup....unlike you though, I would keep lowering and lowering the price until I got a nibble. Wish I still had all of mine!