T207 back question ?

[timn1]

Napoleons are nowhere near as rare as Uzits. I would say probably somewhere halfway between between Hindu and Carolina Bright

Originally Posted by dabbuu

Uzit

.

[dabbuu]

Sure they are, there are only one or maybe two known of each. I think the estimates of Uzits is roughly 250-300

Originally Posted by timn1

Napoleons are nowhere near as rare as Uzits. I would say probably somewhere halfway between between Hindu and Carolina Bright .

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

I've owned several Napoleons, I have never owned an Uzit or a CB. I know that's not scientific, but I don't think they're THAT hard.

[timn1]

There are plenty of Napoleons around, relatively speaking. You can find 'em for $100 on ebay once in a while. Try doing that with an Uzit.

Some of you will remember that I did a survey of T207 populations about 15 years ago, which resulted in a two-part article in the old VCBC Magazine.

Out of 2117 T207s I surveyed, 50 had Napoleon backs - 2.4% of the total.

(A little context: Napoleon backs only appear with "Recruit players" - never with the players who are found with Cycle and Broadleaf backs. A small number of cards with anonymous backs are found on cards from both classes.)

So the 50 Napoleons I found represent 3% of the Recruit population, or about 2.4% of all T207s. Does anyone think that 0.03 of all T206s are Uzits? If you say there are 250-300 Uzits known, isn't that less than 0.0003 of the million or so T206s estimated to exist? IOW, Uzits could be a hundred times as rare as Naps, relative to the sets.

There aren't that many Napoleons graded because they haven't brought that much of a premium from collectors, unlike Uzits. (Plus there are only about 16000 T207s graded compared to more than 320000 T206s, which is an enormous disparity.) But I'll bet that like me, most people who have collected a lot of T207s have several Naps in their collections. Again not true of Uzits. The Naps are out there, not in large numbers but as the OP suggested, they are more like brown Hindus in rarity than Uzits.

[frohme]

I have to agree with Tim on this one. They're hard, sure, but they are not Uzit-level hard. It may seem so give their (apparent) scarcity, but some of that is due to the sheer volume difference between T206 and T207.... what is it ... somewhere between 6-10 to 1? It was discussed on a thread some while back but I'm remote on airport wifii on my phone, so going from (poor) memory.

They are also definitely not only 1-2 per player. Ferry has at least 4 examples, Johnson at least three... and that trend likely is general, though some maybe harder than others... like the set in general. I expect there are way more than we (presently) know, but with sample sizes this small ( so far) it's hard to draw conclusions.

Though they tend to command a relative premium these days compared to a few years ago (when they show up in auction/eBay) I think that's more attributable to (at least) a few more people paying attention to backs outside of T206. It only takes one or two to drive prices up...

Still working on the set...
--
Mike

[RCMcKenzie]

I "collect" these and I see them about as often as T206 Carolina Brights. I have about 8 or 9 of them. There is a collector on here who has scores of them, but I'd say they are very tough. Much tougher than finding a T206 Hindu back. They usually go pretty cheap compared to any T206's.

edit to add...I think I picked up the Chance in a small group, so I'm up to around 12-13..Happy collecting...

[timn1]

Believe me, I wish I was wrong because I have a lot more Naps than Carolina Brights.

But the reason you will see Hindus a lot more often than Naps is that there are roughly 20 times as many T206s in circulation as there are T207s. In terms of proportion, it's a different story.

As I said originally, Naps may be somewhere between Hindu and CBs, but I would say closer to the Hindu. The fact that you know a collector with "scores" of Naps is indicative in itself. How many people own scores of CBs?

Cheers,
Tim

Originally Posted by RCMcKenzie

I "collect" these and I see them about as often as T206 Carolina Brights. I have about 8 or 9 of them. There is a collector on here who has scores of them, but I'd say they are very tough. Much tougher than finding a T206 Hindu back. They usually go pretty cheap compared to any T206's.

edit to add...I think I picked up the Chance in a small group, so I'm up to around 12-13..Happy collecting...