Clown on ebay

[Stonepony]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Assuming you are right about them not being compromised, how do you know they aren't having their own fabricated? This doesn't strike me as high technology, it's a piece of cheap plastic.

+1 I would guess that fabricating counterfeit slabs would be a simple task for those so inclined.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Stonepony

+1 I would guess that fabricating counterfeit slabs would be a simple task for those so inclined.

How simple would it be to send one of the fake cards to PSA and have them confirm whether or not it was their slab and/or flip? Thats why PSA is silent on this.

[Stonepony]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

How simple would it be to send one of the fake cards to PSA and have them confirm whether or not it was their slab and/or flip? Thats why PSA is silent on this.

I don't know David, but that's a step in the buying/ collecting process I'd just as soon not have to pursue. I just hope it gets figured out. I would hope this is a top priority with PSA because if your consumers begin to question the legitimacy of your product , there most certainly will be some repercussions.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Stonepony

I don't know David

Yes, you do know, but you don't want to think about the reality of it. PSA could confirm rather quickly if it was their slab and/or flip. They've been silent on that aspect of it, talking about everything else. Surely PSA has seen these (in their possession) fake cards already. So why not come out and say whether or not its theirs, or being counterfeited/reproduced elsewhere?

Lets just say for a minute that PSA caught someone red handed stealing slabs and flips out the back door? Two questions for you?

(1) As a PSA collector, would you want to know about it?
(2) Do you think PSA would publicly announce that?

[Peter_Spaeth]

So you are now saying PSA is covering up a hypothetical heist?

[Stonepony]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Yes, you do know, but you don't want to think about the reality of it. PSA could confirm rather quickly if it was their slab and/or flip. They've been silent on that aspect of it, talking about everything else. Surely PSA has seen these (in their possession) fake cards already. So why not come out and say whether or not its theirs, or being counterfeited/reproduced elsewhere?

Lets just say for a minute that PSA caught someone red handed stealing slabs and flips out the back door? Two questions for you?

(1) As a PSA collector, would you want to know about it?
(2) Do you think PSA would publicly announce that?

1) Yes
2) No
I think their response to the problem ( hence they've acknowledged it) was the design of the new holder and holo. Sure it fall short. It seems a photmatched database is an obvious answer. I'm sure there's a documented interview out there were Joe is asked these questions directly ?

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Stonepony

1) Yes
2) No
I think their response to the problem ( hence they've acknowledged it) was the design of the new holder and holo. Sure it fall short. It seems a photmatched database is an obvious answer. I'm sure there's a documented interview out there were Joe is asked these questions directly ?

I have made it known that you should have a card owner registry of the high value cards where the last registered owner would be contacted by email or something to see if they contend they are still in possession of the card (even know they arent doing the PSA registry thing)...cant fake same cert numbers when the current owner is notified and make it known there are 2 of the same certs out there..

[buymycards]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

I have made it known that you should have a card owner registry of the high value cards where the last registered owner would be contacted by email or something to see if they contend they are still in possession of the card (even know they arent doing the PSA registry thing)...cant fake same cert numbers when the current owner is notified and make it known there are 2 of the same certs out there..

So now we should register our graded cards? I don't want mine registered. It isn't anyone's business. Should the registry info go to the IRS to see if a sale was reported, or to Social Security to make sure no one sells cards that puts them over the earnings limit? Who would be in charge of this registry?

I don't think so.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Stonepony

1) Yes
2) No
I think their response to the problem ( hence they've acknowledged it) was the design of the new holder and holo. Sure it fall short. It seems a photmatched database is an obvious answer. I'm sure there's a documented interview out there were Joe is asked these questions directly ?

They acknowledged the problem, but they haven't acknowledged the source of the slabs and flips for these fake cards. There are only 2 scenarios here. Either (1) these are fake cards with fake PSA slabs and flips or (2) these are fake cards inside real PSA slabs and flips. Can you think of another scenario?

Why hasn't PSA addressed the source of the slabs and flips? If they weren't theirs, shouldnt they come out and say so to give collectors just a little more peace of mind.

Like I said in my opening post, I really dont care so, for me, its not worth discussing anymore.

[Peter_Spaeth]

David for someone who doesn't care you are devoting a lot of energy to it.

[botn]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Yes, you do know, but you don't want to think about the reality of it. PSA could confirm rather quickly if it was their slab and/or flip. They've been silent on that aspect of it, talking about everything else. Surely PSA has seen these (in their possession) fake cards already. So why not come out and say whether or not its theirs, or being counterfeited/reproduced elsewhere?

Lets just say for a minute that PSA caught someone red handed stealing slabs and flips out the back door? Two questions for you?

(1) As a PSA collector, would you want to know about it?
(2) Do you think PSA would publicly announce that?

As to 1) yes and as to 2) PSA has a history of covering up fraud like this. Just ask any of us who were active in the hobby in 2001-2003 when When It Was A Game had their own scam of sealing holders. Reading PSA statements about it, AFTER the fact will not suffice. PSA was not forthcoming with any information whatsoever to help collectors and dealers identify which holders were bad or to explain the extent of the fraud. They just wanted it to go away as fast as possible. That is their way of protecting the brand name--not by taking care of their customers.

As far as what is going on now, what good is it to send a holder in to PSA to have them examine it once it is bought or a trade is done and that holder turns out to be bad? This is far from proactive solution and offers ZERO protection or recourse to the victim. In fact, it is my understanding when you do that the card gets broken out and you get back the card inside of a card saver.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by botn

As to 1) yes and as to 2) PSA has a history of covering up fraud like this. Just ask any of us who were active in the hobby in 2001-2003 when When It Was A Game had their own scam of sealing holders. Reading PSA statements about it, AFTER the fact will not suffice. PSA was not forthcoming with any information whatsoever to help collectors and dealers identify which holders were bad or to explain the extent of the fraud. They just wanted it to go away as fast as possible. That is their way of protecting the brand name--not by taking care of their customers.

As far as what is going on now, what good is it to send a holder in to PSA to have them examine it once it is bought or a trade is done and that holder turns out to be bad? This is far from proactive solution and offers ZERO protection or recourse to the victim. In fact, it is my understanding when you do that the card gets broken out and you get back the card inside of a card saver.

+1. It seems like there is no "victim protection". They wipe their hands clean of it, and meanwhile, you are stuck for hundreds, if not thousands of dollars through no fault of your own.