T216 Virginia Extras

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Posted By: Millerhouse

To all:

I tried this once before, in a dying thread, and never got any response.

Has anyone out there ever seen a T216 with a Virginia Extra back that has a factory number printed on the back? If so, let us know what you can and post it, if possible.

In thirty five years or so of collecting, I've never seen one, leading me to wonder whether the Virginia Extra T216s were ever actually issued with tobacco products.

Dan

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Posted By: Richard

Dan -

I don't know the answer to your question regarding the factory number designation on the back of Virginia Extras, but how would having a factory number indicate the method of distribution?

Couldn't the cards have been distributed with tobacco products even without a factory designation?

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Posted By: Millerhouse

Richard,

Obviously, anything is possible. I will also note, however, that I have never seen a Virginia Extra back that I was convinced was machine cut -- suggesting, to me, at least, that they may have, instead, all been hand cut from some sort of advertising piece.

Let me phrase the question to you in another way, if the first formulation does not grab you. Are you aware of any other 20th Century pre-World War I tobacco card set (other than T216) in which the cards do not bear a factory number?

Dan

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Posted By: Brian Weisner

Hi Dan,
The Type 3 Kotton's don't have a factory designation either, and were also distributed by Peoples Tobacco co. I have owned several Extras in the past, and none that I can remember were hand cut, but I will go through all of my pictures this week and make sure. Be well Brian

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Posted By: Richard

Dan,

Interesting discussion.

"I have never seen a Virginia Extra back that I was convinced was machine cut -- suggesting, to me, at least, that they may have, instead, all been hand cut from some sort of advertising piece"

I don't know of any sheet cut advertising pieces which have a back matching up with the front with the proper size (back advertisement perfectly matching in size to the front). Usually they are all either blank back or have some odd wording indicating much larger text on the sheet?

"Are you aware of any other 20th Century pre-World War I tobacco card set (other than T216) in which the cards do not bear a factory number?"

From just browsing the T section of the Old Cardboard Website:

T209-1
T215 Pirate
T217

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Posted By: Zach Rice

Though not the normal thing with the issued, you can find t209-1s with a factory overprint on the back.

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Posted By: Millerhouse

In looking over my T209-1s, three-quarters of them have what appear to be hand-stamped factory numbers. To me, this suggests that someone stumbled on some requirement for the factory number and appended them after the initial printing on whatever had yet to be distributed. (Plainly, the issuer of T216s had whatever the requirement might have been in mind, given that factory numbers appear on two of the Kotton backs and the Mino back.)

Also, note that the Type 3 Kottons (which, I believe, consistently lack the factory number) are printed on a thinner type paper consistent with Virginia Extras and frequently seem hand-cut as well.

The absence of a factory number from the Pirate cards is not surprising since they were supposedly issued in the South Pacific -- and likely were not subject to any U.S. regulation.

And regarding T217 Monos, I had never previously noticed this before, but none of mine bears a factory number, either. An interesting anomaly. Perhaps Federal inspectors never got to the West Coast . . . !

Dan

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Posted By: peter ullman

i'm jealous of you guys...interesting thread. I passed on t216's when I had the opportunity always thinking I could get a better deal. This was 10 years ago...and more recently to a board member...I have none!

Pete ullman

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Posted By: jay behrens

this my lone example and does not have the Dorskin/Crandall seal of approval



Jay

I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

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Posted By: Millerhouse

Jay,

Does it have a factory number on the back? It certainly does look hand cut!

Dan

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Posted By: peter ullman

nice jay...i wish this e101 was a t216!

pete in mn

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Posted By: Richard

Pete -

Don't confuse me with someone who can go home and check through my 50 examples of each card to verify these things

I do all of my verification using Old Cardboard, the Standard Catalog, etc.

Richard

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Posted By: BcD

that one looks trimmed!

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Posted By: leon

One of my favorite issues. None of the thinner paper stock series (type-3's or VE's) I have seen have a factory number. I don't know if they were handcut or not because all of them I have seen, including the ones I own and have owned, are in fr-pr shape with very well rounded corners. Can't say I am sure they were handcut but it's possible. Don't know if they were issued in cigarettes but have no reason to believe they weren't. None of the T217's I have, or have had, had factory numbers either. As for the factory number stamps on the back of T cards my guess (only a guess) would be they were still put in packs......regards

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Posted By: jay behrens

No factory number visible. Then again, there is a some paper loss in the area where they might have put a number.
Jay

I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

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Posted By: Richard

Jay - Are you sure it is the factory number that is no longer there, or rather someone has removed paper stock where the word "reprint" once was.

To stay somewhat on topic, does anyone own, or has anyone even seen for that matter, packaging for any of the T216 products?

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Posted By: jay behrens

I really doubt anyone removed the word reprint from this card and don't think these cards ever had factory numbers on them. This card is so fragile, I doubt anyone would great a reprint that looked like this. As far as I know, VE's have never been reprinted.

Jay

I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

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Posted By: Matt

I have seen a picture of a pack of Mino Cigarette's from the collection of an old time cigarette collector in N.C. I'll see if I still have it and post it later. I have never seen a Kotton on Virginia Extra pack. I have been on the hunt for these packs for some time know-

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Posted By: Bruce Babcock

My entire T216 collection. Has anyone seen one with remotely sharp corners? Any graded ones out there?

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Posted By: Matt

Here is my only Virginia Extra and it's now an SGC 10. I'd have a real hard time believing these were hand cut.

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Posted By: Millerhouse

Matt,

I assume you're being facetious.

Dan

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Posted By: Dave

I have a clean T216 Hartsel with the Virginia Extra back. SGC says it
was trimmed and would only give it a AUTH grading. Just like the other
scans there is no factory number.