Babe Ruth Ban Johnson Ball

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by Nyygameused

Introducing professor david atkatz.............

Damn I should have capitalized his name......... Oh well

Actually, Carmelo, most people here know that I am a professor (theoretical physics.)
So another attempt at a joke bites the dust.

[collectbaseball]

The argument that a clubhouse/secretarial signature is no different from a forgery is rather absurd. Do they have the same level of “realness”? Yes. Obviously the player did not sign it. Neither one is an authentic autograph of the player. They are both zero percent real. Do they have the same level of “truth”? No. The clubhouse/secretarial is more truthful than the forgery—most importantly it is actually from the period it is supposed to be from, whereas nearly all forgeries are from significantly later. Unlike the forgery, the clubhouse/secretarial was made with either implicit or explicit permission from the player. The motive behind the clubhouse/secretarial is also different—the motive for the deception is not economic gain. [Note that I am only talking about older things, not the Classic fiasco or whatever].

I would much rather have a team-signed ball with clubhouse signatures on it than one with forgeries on it (in fact, the latter would really have no place in my collection barring some exceptional circumstance).

I also disagree with the notion that a clubhouse signature would not resemble the player’s signature (I don’t know if we are grouping secretarials into the same category here). Consider the Sinclair Oil Babe Ruth baseballs—I don’t think a single-signed clubhouse baseball is out of the realm of possibility.

[Nyygameused]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

Actually, Carmelo, most people here know that I am a professor (theoretical physics.)
So another attempt at a joke bites the dust.

I'm glad we know your profession. Im a humble guy so I'll just say that's very impressive. I'm not sure when I pushed one of your buttons where I sense some disdain from you but I still respect you as a collector.

[David Atkatz]

Excellent points, Dan. There are many 1927 Yankees baseballs with clubhouse Ruths. The style of those signatures is well-known, and they are easily recognizable--obviously all done by the same person--but they certainly attempt to look like the Babe's actual signature.

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by Nyygameused

I'm glad we know your profession. Im a humble guy so I'll just say that's very impressive. I'm not sure when I pushed one of your buttons where I sense some disdain from you but I still respect you as a collector.

As many people here have stated, there is a difference between proxy and forged signatures. We all understand that you don't like either, and don't want either in your collection. That's fine. But, insisting that they're "all forgeries" does push people's buttons. People here have taken the time to learn the differences between the two, and to recognize them when they appear. These people attempted to pass that knowledge on to you, only to have it, in a certain sense, thrown back in their faces.

So, shall we start afresh?

[Nyygameused]

I understand where everyone is coming from, and actually considering a player knowing of a proxy does make an item a bit more interesting. I guess for me a proxy would be like collecting autos of the wives of players, I get it. Just not for me.

[David Atkatz]

In some cases--most notably Lou Gehrig--the proxy is the wife.

Here's Lou's favorite Burke photo (he used to buy these from Burke to send to fans) signed by his wife Eleanor:

[collectbaseball]

Joe DiMaggio's wife's autograph is actually worth quite a bit.

[Deertick]

Originally Posted by collectbaseball

Joe DiMaggio's wife's autograph is actually worth quite a bit.

So is JFK's mistress'....oh, wait. Never mind.

[shelly]

His wife or sister. I have never seen them priced. What are they worth.? Not includeing Monroe.