USA TODAY article regarding FBI subpoenas, doctoring, etc......

[WhenItWasAHobby]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...ed/1929959001/

Shocking quote from the article: "Messages left with PSA executives by USA TODAY Sports were not returned".

They're probably tied up either dumping more CLCT stock or lecturing collectors on the power of positive thinking.

[Gradedcardman]

They have been told to not talk to USA Today by their attorney.

[samosa4u]

This article was posted last night, but got out of hand with all the personal attacks and got locked down. I wanted to comment on the article, so I'm glad you started a new thread.

I want to examine what Mr. Lichtman said here:

“While there are questions of what constitutes an improper alteration ..."

I agree with him on that one. I think a lot of people have no problem with soaking cards out of albums or to remove glue stains, etc. I think what really pissed people off is the trimming, bleaching, recoloring, etc. Again, we've had so many debates over this and it's not something all of us can agree on.

PWCC has sold hundreds of thousands of cards and the problematic ones are in the hundreds — or less than 1%

He might be right. It could be a very small number - maybe five percent or less than ten. However, the ones that are altered might be the most expensive ones. I put the "might" in bold letters because I'm not stating it as a fact, but based on everything BODA has been posting, it's mostly the waterfront cards that have been targeted here and they are the most expensive ones. This is what I find concerning.

Anyways, can somebody explain more about what it means to be issued a subpoena? So you have to go to court? Does it mean you've been charged or the judge wants to talk to you? Sorry, I don't understand these things well, especially the US Judicial system.

[drcy]

"I've met thousands of people and only killed 17 of them"-- Jeffrey Dahmer

"I've been to 1000 banks and only robbed 30 of them"-- John Dillinger

The less than 1% makes that much sense-- if they were involved or knowledgeable about the crimes. I bet it's probably that Jeffrey Dahmer was even nice to a lot of people, and Dillinger made honest deposits at banks-- but, of course, that's not the point as far as their crimes go.

I'm no lawyer, but I believe a subpoena only means you're being compelled to testify, give information or such. They often give them to mere witnesses or people with possible information. The subpoena phone companies for the phone records of a criminal. Does not automatically equate with being charged or being guilty with a crime.

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

This article was posted last night, but got out of hand with all the personal attacks and got locked down. I wanted to comment on the article, so I'm glad you started a new thread.

I didn't see the prior thread. I hope this thread will facilitate civil discourse.

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by samosa4u

Anyways, can somebody explain more about what it means to be issued a subpoena? So you have to go to court? Does it mean you've been charged or the judge wants to talk to you? Sorry, I don't understand these things well, especially the US Judicial system.

Generally speaking, subpoenas are court orders to either produce something (duces tecum) or command appearance/attendance (ad testificandum). At this point, I would bet the subpoenas issued in the PWCC matter are the former, and are for "tangible things" such as documents, electronic records or perhaps even cards themselves. Unless there are grand jury proceedings underway, I doubt there are any subpoenas compelling someone's attendance.

The party served with one can object to compliance, in whole or part, and in that sense can go to court. Also, the party serving the subpoena can request court assistance if there is insufficient or non-compliance.

[TanksAndSpartans]

This part didn't quite make sense to me:

Members of BODA often get “tipped off” to questionable auctions by dealers who want the auction process “cleaned up.” Those dealers don’t want their names attached for fear of being ostracized by the sports memorabilia collector community.

Ostracized by collectors, other dealers? Does either make sense?

[vintagetoppsguy]

This part doesn't make sense to me...

Jeff says, "PWCC has sold hundreds of thousands of cards and the problematic ones are in the hundreds..."

The article goes on to say, "Lichtman said that PWCC has already refunded money to “hundreds” of people who purchased suspect cards at auction..."

So, let me get this straight. Hundreds of problematic cards were sold and hundreds of people have been refunded. Sounds to me like nearly everyone who purchased a problematic card has been made whole.

[egbeachley]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

This part doesn't make sense to me...

Jeff says, "PWCC has sold hundreds of thousands of cards and the problematic ones are in the hundreds..."

The article goes on to say, "Lichtman said that PWCC has already refunded money to “hundreds” of people who purchased suspect cards at auction..."

So, let me get this straight. Hundreds of problematic cards were sold and hundreds of people have been refunded. Sounds to me like nearly everyone who purchased a problematic card has been made whole.

Leon, we need a like button on this site!

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Originally Posted by TanksAndSpartans

This part didn't quite make sense to me:

Members of BODA often get “tipped off” to questionable auctions by dealers who want the auction process “cleaned up.” Those dealers don’t want their names attached for fear of being ostracized by the sports memorabilia collector community.

Ostracized by collectors, other dealers? Does either make sense?

First off, if you're a dealer of PSA cards, you can't criticize PSA or bring a scandal to their attention, otherwise you're pretty much banned from submitting to PSA, being on their dealer list, registry, message board, etc. I've seen this happen first hand.

Second, a lot of dealers and collectors who are heavily invested in PSA cards don't like PSA-related scandals. If for any other reason this hurts their income and hobby/investment respectively. Again from experience, I publicly spoke out about PSA card doctoring ten years ago with compelling evidence and I was shunned and berated by dealers and collectors - even though I was telling the truth and had indisputable evidence of the doctoring. It's mind-boggling.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by TanksAndSpartans

This part didn't quite make sense to me:

Members of BODA often get “tipped off” to questionable auctions by dealers who want the auction process “cleaned up.” Those dealers don’t want their names attached for fear of being ostracized by the sports memorabilia collector community.

Ostracized by collectors, other dealers? Does either make sense?

Makes perfect sense to me. I thought long and hard before I decided to speak my mind. There are MANY dealers who like the status quo. If by upsetting them you limit with whom you can do business it can be a tough situation. I'm sure there are some people out there who won't do business with me because of my outspokenness on the subject. Luckily I'm small enough where they probably weren't doing business with me to begin with. The larger you get the more intertwined the business relationships are.

[TanksAndSpartans]

Thanks for the replies - seems really perverted to me that by doing the right thing, you become a bad guy.