Please be on the look out for this t206! Help!!

[AJR]

Board members,

Please be on the lookout for a unique t206 Frank Chance portrait! Please contact me immediately if you have been offered the card or if you may have purchased it this week from someone in Illinois!

On this Tuesday night, Sept. 30, I purchased a t206 Frank Chance portrait (Red Background) from an ebay seller, edison89.

The card is unique in that the red background is faded to a nice bright orange. (see pictures below)

$_57-1.jpg

$_57-2.jpg


The sale was a BIN and I provided payment instantly, the seller within an hour marked the card shipped and I was excited to add this cool faded color variation to my collection.

However, this is not what has happened.

After several attempts to track the package on Wednesday, yesterday and today there was no update to the tracking information.

I tried to contact the seller to find out why the tracking information was not registering with USPS and did not get any response until just about 30 min ago (4:30pm EST on Friday).

I opened the email from the seller only to read an apology and a fantastic story about how several cars in his neighborhood of Bloomington, IL were burglarized on Wednesday night and of course my card was stolen.

I thought his story was more than a little fishy so I checked with the Bloomington, IL police department.

As I suspected there were no automobile break-ins, thefts or the like reported on Wednesday night or any other night this week...

Now, what has happened to the card?

My gut tells me that because I got a great deal on the card (maybe too low if you ask some people) that the seller was contacted privately by someone else offering more money.

Due to the lack of any police reported break-ins this week from anyone in Bloomington, IL, I can only assume that he welched on my sale in order to accept a higher offer outside of ebay.

So, I ask you all to be vigilant and please, please be on the lookout for a unique t206 Frank Chance red (orange) portrait! Please contact me immediately if you have been offered the card or if you may have purchased it this week from someone in Illinois!

Please note that the seller has refunded my money, but we all know this isn't about the money... I bought the card, we had a deal and now that deal has not gone through.

Thank you

Aaron

PS: if edison89 is a board member and this post is out of line/wrong and there really was a break-in please correct me but as of now according to the police there was no such crime or string of break-ins as has been claimed.

[Jantz]

Welcome to the Board!

I'll keep an eye out for this card.


Jantz

[sreader3]

Great card. When I first started to scroll down on your OP I thought it was the yellow background Chance portrait. Good luck.

[mrvster]

we will keep an eye out! nice orange variation btw

[the 'stache]

We'll keep our eyes peeled for a Chance portrait with an orange background. Those tobacco stains on the back form a unique pattern, too, so if we were to come across a similarly faded background, the background picture will be the thing that makes for a positive identification.

This forum has a lot of eyes. If it's going up for sale anywhere, we'll find it. I'm going to check eBay right now for ya.

Bill

[the 'stache]

Here's a link to the original auction.

Something in the auction details caught my eye. It is listed as a graded card, though the pictures provided are clearly without any slab. I'm wondering if he sent the card off to a tpg, and when he got it back, it graded higher than he anticipated. He said "compare to a 3?"

If the card were sent off to PSA, and it came back as a 3.5, he might feel that he didn't get enough for the card. That's too bad, obviously, because he put it up for sale. But that would explain why he made up this whole story.

I would keep watching his auctions, and if you see the card up for sale, I would contact eBay. I don't know if they can, or would do anything. But I'm betting this card is up for sale again soon at a higher price.

[mybuddyinc]

Welcome, and that stinks. You're probably right, he pulled something, but at least was novel in his excuse:

Pregnant girlfriend -- used
Just diagnosed with ______ -- used
Dying grandmother -- used
Cousin suicide -- used
Car theft ring -- new, but added to list

Good luck in your collecting, Scott

[AJR]

Thank you to everyone for being on the lookout for this unique chance t206.

I have been in touch with both PSA and SGC about the card and they will notify me if it comes in for grading.

I will also be contacting the auction houses in case it is submitted to them for a future sale.

I really just wanted to thank you all for your responses and for working with me to keep this hobby honest and honorable.

If you see the card let me know!

Aaron

[yanks12025]

Never mind.

[chernieto]

Originally Posted by AJR

Thank you to everyone for being on the lookout for this unique chance t206.

I have been in touch with both PSA and SGC about the card and they will notify me if it comes in for grading.

I will also be contacting the auction houses in case it is submitted to them for a future sale.

I really just wanted to thank you all for your responses and for working with me to keep this hobby honest and honorable.

If you see the card let me know!

Aaron

If the sale was cancelled and you got your money back perhaps contacting auction houses and TPG's is overkill? Just a thought.
I realize I might be missing something, but it looks like a Chance Yellow portrait to me.
Good luck
Paul

[Luke]

Chance yellow is a 350/460 subject. This is definitely a red portrait.

[chipperhank44]

I'm not super familiar with all of Ebay's policies, but if the card does turn up, what are your next steps? Do you have a legitimate claim to the card at that point despite the refund, or do you confront the seller and hope he does the right thing?
I'm genuinely curious because this seems like something that happens fairly frequently when someone gets a good deal on Ebay.

[AJR]

Originally Posted by chernieto

If the sale was cancelled and you got your money back perhaps contacting auction houses and TPG's is overkill? Just a thought.
I realize I might be missing something, but it looks like a Chance Yellow portrait to me.
Good luck
Paul

It's not about the money, it's about the hobby.

The contacting of industry professionals is not overkill. I was informed by the seller that the card was stolen. Theft is illegal.

Auction houses and TPG's should be aware that this card is now stolen property.

The bigger reason to inform the community is that we all have to be watchdogs for the hobby.

If no one looks out for one another, if theft goes unreported and/or sellers are allowed to welch on honest deals then where does it stop? I'm sure Doug Allen and Bill Mastro might have some thoughts.

[christopher.herman]

Hello AJR,

Having been in this situation a number of times as a buyer (seller regrets the final sale price and pulls the card or makes up a story, which seems to be the case here, as you state in your original post) I empathize completely.

However, you are all over the place:

1. The seller is scumbucket and should be publicly tarred and feathered, as well as "outed" here, which you did appropriately. Thank you.

2. But then you believe the "car theft" story. Or not. I'm not sure since you call the police and PSA and SGC and auction houses to "alert" them to a "stolen" card which was never yours to begin with. And it seems you know this.

3. Even if the card turns up, you have no recourse to make a claim. Most likely it was sold to another buyer who was willing to pay more and now belongs to them and that sucks, I agree. Once again: scumbag seller.

4. Do you really expect a call from PSA or SGC or an auction house if the card surfaces? Why would they? All you are is a disgruntled buyer who lost out on a purchase. It happens.

5. You're gonna need to get thicker skin to survive in this hobby. Shady auctions, shill bidding, welched sales and other disreputable practices are rampant in the vintage card world. Shame the seller and move on.

Best of luck with your collection,
Christopher.

[AJR]

Originally Posted by christopher.herman

Hello AJR,

Having been in this situation a number of times as a buyer (seller regrets the final sale price and pulls the card or makes up a story, which seems to be the case here, as you state in your original post) I empathize completely.

However, you are all over the place:

1. The seller is scumbucket and should be publicly tarred and feathered, as well as "outed" here, which you did appropriately. Thank you.

2. But then you believe the "car theft" story. Or not. I'm not sure since you call the police and PSA and SGC and auction houses to "alert" them to a "stolen" card which was never yours to begin with. And it seems you know this.

3. Even if the card turns up, you have no recourse to make a claim. Most likely it was sold to another buyer who was willing to pay more and now belongs to them and that sucks, I agree. Once again: scumbag seller.

4. Do you really expect a call from PSA or SGC or an auction house if the card surfaces? Why would they? All you are is a disgruntled buyer who lost out on a purchase. It happens.

5. You're gonna need to get thicker skin to survive in this hobby. Shady auctions, shill bidding, welched sales and other disreputable practices are rampant in the vintage card world. Shame the seller and move on.

Best of luck with your collection,
Christopher.

Chris

Thanks for the comment. I do not believe the sellers story for even half a second. The reason for all the legwork is to make sure that this seller feels some shame and/or possibly is questioned about the card when they try to do something with it.

The reason for calling the police was to make sure that the seller got a call from them investigating a theft. If the seller was lying they prob got a pit in their stomach, if they were telling the truth (highly doubt it, the story is ridiculous) then they can file a report.

Recourse, I know I won't get any.

However, if we don't stand up for what's right and we don't notify the industry professionals when some "scumbag" stuff goes down, then we allow transactions like this to take place in the future.

With respect to my skin and the hobby, it's not the first time I've been burned, it happens all the time in pre-war cards and I've been collecting for years!

I'm not upset just want to do my part to ensure whoever has this card knows what is being claimed about it...

Aaron

[chernieto]

Originally Posted by AJR

It's not about the money, it's about the hobby.

The contacting of industry professionals is not overkill. I was informed by the seller that the card was stolen. Theft is illegal.

Auction houses and TPG's should be aware that this card is now stolen property.

The bigger reason to inform the community is that we all have to be watchdogs for the hobby.

If no one looks out for one another, if theft goes unreported and/or sellers are allowed to welch on honest deals then where does it stop? I'm sure Doug Allen and Bill Mastro might have some thoughts.

Sadly on Ebay sellers and buyers sometimes do not follow through on their commitments.
Your transaction was cancelled and you were refunded. I do not believe any court in the land would consider you were robbed. I agree what the seller did was unfair and wrong, but within the world of Ebay I do not see the crime as far as your involvement is concerned.

To me there is a difference between theft and "welching" on a deal and the latter does not need notification to law enforcement and AH's.
Since you don't actually believe the card is stolen I'm not sure why you would tell TPG's & AH's that it is stolen.

If I see the card I will let you know
Paul

[AJR]

Originally Posted by chernieto

Sadly on Ebay sellers and buyers sometimes do not follow through on their commitments.
Your transaction was cancelled and you were refunded. I do not believe any court in the land would consider you were robbed. I agree what the seller did was unfair and wrong, but within the world of Ebay I do not see the crime as far as your involvement is concerned.

To me there is a difference between theft and "welching" on a deal and the latter does not need notification to law enforcement and AH's.
Since you don't actually believe the card is stolen I'm not sure why you would tell TPG's & AH's that it is stolen.

If I see the card I will let you know
Paul

Thanks for keeping an eye out for the card.

I think I am being misunderstood:

1. I do not believe the card was stolen

2. I believe the seller welched on the deal

3. I am telling these places it was "stolen" because that is what the seller reported to me. I am sticking only to the "facts" provided to me by the seller.

4. Agreed, if the seller had told me, "hey, I got a higher offer and I'm not honoring our deal." I wouldn't be reporting anything.

5. That said, the seller informed me of a crime, theft, which should be reported.

My actions are the result of the seller telling me what is most likely a lie. Truth or fabrication it is what I was told. If it was true, now the seller can work with the police to recover the property. If it was false then they can explain to everyone who questions them about the card what happened.

The point is, we as collectors and guardians of this great hobby should protect it and make those who would treat it improperly have consequences to their actions.

"Do no harm, but take no shit."

[Fred]

Well, this is a hell of away to introduce yourself with an initial post.

It sucks to have to deal with scumbag sellers but why fight it unless you were cheated out of your cash. The best thing to do is just not bid on the scum sucking assholes stuff anymore.

Let it go. It's not worth the aggravation. Like the saying goes..."sometimes you're the bug, sometime's you're the windshield...."

Oh yeah, welcome to the board...

[j_cook]

I was thinking the same thing a lot of you were, op should just chalk it up to another scumbag being a scumbag and move on. However, it appears he clearly knows what really happened and is just trying to blow up the sellers spot a bit and maybe make the seller regret what he did a little bit, which i don't mind at all.

[AJR]

Originally Posted by j_cook

I was thinking the same thing a lot of you were, op should just chalk it up to another scumbag being a scumbag and move on. However, it appears he clearly knows what really happened and is just trying to blow up the sellers spot a bit and maybe make the seller regret what he did a little bit, which i don't mind at all.

Right on man... You nailed it.

[Fred]

Do you really think that a-hole cares? If he's going to hose someone over then he probably doesn't give a crap either way.

Ok, "if" (big if) you make him feel a little uncomfortable then he'll forget about it soon after nothing's done. Life will go on for the idiot and he'll probably do it again. I think we'd be a bit naive to think that the folks at fleabay will do anything about it.

Let's say the card shows up somewhere. The police won't do anything. Technically there was no crime. Lying to you and telling you he called the police isn't a crime, it's a lie. Ebay will probably ignore your communications and life will go on.

Ok, try to get the guy to feel a little fear or uncomfort... I bet he doesn't....

Drop a little stress and fuggetaboutit.... hopefully, in that a-holes case, what goes around comes around....

[1952boyntoncollector]

i would bid on the sellers next item that is close in price to what you bought..win the item and then say you were robbed by the guys you believe that stole the card he was previously supposed to selll to you. and ask to cancel the transaction..so you delay his sale for a week and go your seperate ways..