OK, so after your dead.....

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Posted By: Dave

I have posted a smiliar thread before but not to this extent. With the new wave it seems of extra folks on the board nowadays I hope to get a variety of input on what everyone's plans are. After you die, how are you CURRENTLY looking at having your collection handled? If I died today, wouldn't be too big of a deal, I am not invested in the thousands in my collection so what I do have my wife could stick on ebay (hopefully in the right section) and list each card individually. My kids are young...if my wife and I both go at the same time, do I leave in the will that kids get cards after 18? Do I find someone now trustworthy to handle selling the cards with the kids getting the money now? or wait til they are 18? The kids by the way are 12, 10, and 15 months.
Do I trust these kids with T206's now? Um, no.

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Posted By: anthony

i plan on leaving the collection to my two boys in a trust of some sort (currently 11 & 14) with instructions to contact the moderator of this board for help on listing them in the b/s/t, but not until the younger one is 18. this way their money grubbing c**t of a mother wouldnt take the money from them...ha, you're laughing now but you dont know my ex-wife. but more than likely they would probably keep them for awhile since they do collect some newer stuff now. my collection currently is listed with a photo of the card and the current value next to it in my computer so they would know roughly what they should be getting for them.

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Posted By: Joe D.

I almost spit out my coffee

Reading through the thread it seemed that it was starting out so sweet that I could almost hear the violins.....
then the "money grubbing...." line.



I don't mean to smile at that... but the timing and placement of that comment was a work of art.

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Hey guys...

If the cards are listed on an inventory of assets, then your beneficiaries will be looking at paying an inheritance tax (if your state of residence upon death has one) and possibly the federal tax. And it is remotely possible that cards in an estate would affect the cost of a fiduciary bond, and might push up executor fees if incurred.

If you really want kids to get the cards, give them to the kids before you die. I recognize it is difficult to ascertain when you'll die.

My kids ask me about my cards from time to time. They know the cards are there, and perceive there is some value there. But none of them could tell you what color ink is used to print names on a T213 (but hey, slab companies don't know that from time to time) and they have no idea who Jefferson Burdick was. I'm a bit reluctant to give the cards to any of the kids, or grandkids for that matter, if they don't know what they're getting. I think, maybe mistakenly, that it is my job to pass stuff on to someone who'll appreciate them. Gotta give my geneology stuff to someone who cares about that, coins to a numismatist, stamps and covers to a philatalist, antiquarian books to a bibliophile, old baseball books to someone who cares about the history of the game. And if, as I get close to going, if I can't identify such folks amongst my kin, maybe I should sell the stuff to some non-relative... that way they'll appreciate the stuff, and I the money.

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Posted By: Mike

In my will and trust agreements, my attorney has been instructed who gets what, and when. My wife has been left a nationally known dealer's name, whom she can contact, and trust, and whom I have been close to for 20 years or so. Memorabilia is no different than any other material object, it can be spelled out on paper. It is imperative that people put things in writing, so as to limit the amount of confusion after one dies. I have seen many family members go to war after an untimely death, and bicker and fight over the things left behind. After I leave, I couldn't care less about "baseball cards" but the ones left behind still have to deal with things, and it helps if all is spelled out beforehand. (my son is my memorabila recipient). He has a love for it, as I do. The dealer is my advisor. And will help my son or wife dispose of things if necessary. I trust them, to do what is right.

The IRS need not know a thing. It's none of their business. Why would anyone drag them into this ? My wife is savvy enough to deal with them, as is my son. Mum is the word....

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Posted By: James Feagin

I plan on eventually selling my collection and using those funds to be a full-time service missionary for my church.

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Posted By: JK

Frank,

Just curious - are you an estate attorney? I do not practice estate law, but always thought there were ways to pass assets along through the estate without significant taxable consequences (though I could be wrong). Realizing that many estate issues are state specific, are there any estate lawyers that can comment?

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Posted By: Bill Stone

I am hiding mine in a shoebox in the attic so one of my heirs can find them and list them on Ebay as a true attic find.

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Posted By: jP

My collection will go to my son. He knows this already but i dont think he quite understands or knows the awesome history within the cards and that there is value in the collection. I will teach him this and as much as i can about collecting as time passes. I cant wait til he is a little older so we can go to the shops, shows, etc. together.

happy collecting!

my collection: http://s102.photobucket.com/albums/m95/obaks/

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

I'm taking it with me! With my luck my family will probably respect my wishes but they'll have a change of plans and cremate me... What was that book called? Farenheit 451....

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

My son will get my collection....I already call it "our" stuff when discussing it...He's only 5, but he knows better than to touch "our" stuff. If he shows no interest through the years I suppose I will liquidate it when I'm an old man...perhaps donate the Nebraska related material to the Nebraska baseball museum.

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Posted By: John S

I will have a Viking funeral and my cards will burn with me. It will make everyone else's collection worth a bit more.

I actually have directions in my will for my daughter and son to divide cards/money/etc.

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Posted By: Mark

The real issue here is whether or not your remains are embalmed or cremated after you die. Such modification to the corpse might be considered an alteration by some. Would facial makeup be considered restoration ?Would the mortician have to disclose this prior to writing an obituary ?.......... Oh sorry, wrong thread

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Posted By: cmoking

I haven't done this yet, but I plan to type out a letter and put it with my cards. The letter will have a short list of my collector friends and their email or phone numbers. If something happens to me and someone needs to sell the cards, I'm going to suggest they contact one of my friends on the list and ask them for advice on where to sell it. I would rather not put down a specific auction house or ebay or a dealer's name, that's because when I do pass, the right selling route may be different than it is now. My friends will have better advice at that time than I do now looking into the future, especially since I don't even know when that future is.

I also don't think it is necessary for me to push my collection onto my son. He may not care at all, why force him to enjoy what I enjoy. He will be his own person. If he wants to sell, that's fine with me.

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Posted By: peter ullman

my collection probably will not make it to my death! I've been slowly selling some off to fund other purchases and this will probably continue. If any do survive, I will only will them to those who can appreciate them. the most likely scenario will be me selling them off though!

pete ullman

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Posted By: warshawlaw

My wife will have it all anyhow if I croak first; if she goes first, it goes to my daughter. My wife knows the names and contact information for several major auctioneers and knows what to negotiate in terms of commissions and BP. They can do the rest for her. If my wife predeceases me, either the guardian or my daughter will have the same info.

And as far as taxes go, if you leave it to your spouse, it passes tax free. If not, you may need some planning. You have to look realistically at the value of your estate (w/life insurance factored in) and determine whether planning is worthwhile in light of the growing estate tax exemption levels from now to 2010. After 2010, I'd hazard a guess that anyone who owns a home and has life insurance will have to engage in some serious planning. Also note that you do not have to run out and raise $$ overnight when someone dies. The tax returns and payments are due a considerable time down the line.

The only stuff that will stay in the family is the stuff related to the family (i.e., my boxing cousins).

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Posted By: t-205

I will be slabbed an AUTH because of the makeup and the restoration on other parts, PRO would grade me a 10 when i;m dead! :D lol

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Posted By: S Gross

Great post -- I didn't realize so many people have put so much thought on this subject. All are great points that anyone can use to fit their personal situation.

Oh, and more importantly -- Lugnut: "See you Next Tuesday."


((( I love that line)))

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Hey JK...

I did do estate work in my legal practice. But I'm a state court district judge now. So I preside over probate matters in 2 counties.


If it goes into your estate it will be listed in an inventory, and will be assigned a value. States generally tax inheritance. Whoever gets it owes the tax, in theory. Most states exempt a surviving spouse from the tax. Many states vary the tax depending on the degree of relationship between the decedent and the beneficiary.

If the assets in your estate mount up to a sufficient level, the federal death tax would kick in...


As for the IRS, they would get involved, possibly, if you had some item insured for years and years, and then it is gone. For example, you had an original drawing by Mark Chagall. You've had it scheduled on your policy, listing it at its $30,000 purchase price through the 1990s, then you raised the insured value to $40,000 in 2002. In 2011 you increase that to $55,000. In 2012 you remove the Chagall from the insurance schedule. And you die in 2014 and there is no drawing anywhere. You had other works of art, and you routinely bought and sold art. The IRS would figure that if is not in your estate, and you filed no claim, then you must have sold the drawing in 2012 when you removed it from the insurance schedule. $55k - $30k = $25,000 in ordinary income on which you should have paid income tax in maybe 2012. So the IRS would not be likely to get involved for income tax purposes unless it is documented out there somewhere that you had the car... oops, the ART, and then you don't.

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Posted By: Bob

My collection will subsequently wind up in the hands of this aspiring baseball superstar.

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Posted By: Tom Boblitt

really good question. I have 14 and 10 year old stepsons who are no more interested in sports in general or baseball in particular that I don't think they'd care a thing about them. I'm adopting a little girl from China, so hopefully I'll get her playing softball and she'll love the cards as much as I. If I die in the short run, my good friend Cliftons8 on here is instructed to work with my wife to dispose of all my crap via some reasonable method.

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Posted By: howard

Whatever you do make sure that you leave written instructions. When my brother was dying he made a point of telling my parents that he wanted me to have his cards but he didn't want to ask me because he was afraid I wouldn't want them. Of course I wanted them but my brother was a little paranoid due to the nature of his disease(a brain tumor). He had only a few pre-war cards but a superb collection of Topps and Bowman from the late 1940's through about 1980. When I felt the time was right I asked him about the cards and we had a big emotional episode with both of our stoic facades collapsing simultaneously.

When he did pass (without a written will) his wife said that my brother wanted to keep the collection together and that it should be jointly owned by my other brother (who never collected cards)and I and that they should be kept by my brother because he has a ton of storage space. Effectively, I now do not own these cards in any real way. They sit in my brother's basement a thousand miles away and I assume they will go to his kids when he dies in forty or so years.

Howard

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Posted By: Darrell

Too funny - I had another jack n coke to enjoy the responses --- makes you think....
If neither one of my boys eventually can appreciate the hobby and the history then ....... Manos is in charge of selling off my collection and my wife gets (most) of the proceeds ...... ha .. great stuff!!

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Posted By: Joann

I'm same as King - been meaning to (and will soon) put a letter in my safe deposit box that gives various options for selling - reputable auction houses (smaller), etc, and an idea of what a reasonable consignment fee would be.

As to taxes, I'm not sure how the inheritance tax on the value would compare to the tax on income realized from a sale by the recipient. I think that if you give them away while alive, the recipient assumes the price you bought it for so if he ever sells it he pays taxes on the difference between the sales price and the price you bought it for - NOT the value of the card when you gave it. If it is inherited, the "purchase price" that the heir assumes is the value of the card at time of death. So if he sold it the next day his taxes on the sale would be pretty much zero because the sales price and assumed purchase price would be about the same. In other words, the appreciation of the card during your lifetime expires with you, tax-free, and the person that gets it starts with a clean slate at current value.

So if your collection is relatively new and the current value not that much more than what you paid for it, best give it away while alive. However if you are one of those lucky people that bought NRMT T206's for $8 each 50 years ago, and they are substantially more valuable now, then it might be best to let them pass via inheritance so all of that additional value goes away.

I think this is grossly oversimplified, but is this generally how it works? Tax lawyers out there?

J

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Posted By: steve f

Hey gang,
Just fight it... I, for one, refuse to take my dirt nap. Make your vacation plans today, then drink, drrriiiiink!

http://www.fountainofyouthflorida.com/

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Posted By: Joe D.

Dylan Thomas’ “Do Not Go Gentle into That Good Night”

Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

And you, my father, there on the sad height,
Curse, bless, me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Joe- one of the great poems of the 20th century, and Dylan Thomas's most recognizable work.

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Posted By: Marckus

Great question that many of us collector's need to think about.
Funny, how we accumulate all these cardboard items, many times with no one
in our households never knowing what they mean or the value it has.

For me, I would like to pass it along to my son Oliver (pic found below),
but if he finds no joy or interest in the history and value of the cards then I rather donate it to a museum of some sort; where it will be displayed and held together.

As for taxes - in this great country we live in where we get taxed on taxed dollars - mum is the word - I rather burn them than give our backward government more funds.

tBOB M. - cute kid.