Babe Ruth Autographed Baseball Thoughts

[niembre]

Hello,
New to the forum. My wife's grandmother gave us this Babe Ruth autographed baseball. My wife's grandfather got the ball around 1936 from a president of a railroad company. He was around 12 years old. The ball has ES Barnard stamped on the side, so it dates to around 1929. The autograph does not look right to me though. I just do not understand why they would forge and autograph in the 30's. Could this be a clubhouse signature? All thoughts are welcomed.
Thanks

[thetruthisoutthere]

Just a forgery.

[w7imel]

There was a ball similar to yours on ebay that had a great story. Babe was traveling and at a stop he tried to get Ruths auto and his personal manager grabed the ball and signed it like yours. The guy told him he wanted babe to sign it and he told him "unless your a kid or have a skirt this is the only babe ruth autograph your getting." So this ball could be same senario.

[shelly]

Sorry

[niembre]

How much would a ball like this even be worth? I doubt I would sell it, since it's been in the family so long.

[RichardSimon]

It would be worth more then it is worth if it did not have that awful forgery on it.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Interesting story.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by thetruthisoutthere

Interesting story.

+1
Yes verrrrry interesting, to say the least.
The signature on that ball does not resemble any ghost signed Ruth sig.

[niembre]

I had my wife's grandmother email me the story because she is now in her mid 80's and he passed away in the 80's. The ball had been in a ball holder sitting in their hallway all these years. Here is what she emailed me about the story behind the ball:

The Evans' were all big sports fans especially baseball, Bills' uncles included. Sundays were spent listening then later watching games. Findlay was close enough to Cleveland, Cincinnati- to drive to . They also saw many games in St. Louis, Jane had an Aunt and Uncle There. Because of Genes' Job as Traffic Manager for Ohio Oil, they received many comped tickets, box seats no less.

At one of the Cleveland games the President of the Nickel Plate Railroad ( I am not sure for this--could have been another RR) asked them to his home for dinner after the game.

He was also a huge sports fan and his den was filled with much memorabilia.

As the evening drew to a close He was so impressed with Bills' knowledge of baseball and sports in general , he told him he could choose anything he wanted from his collection--of course the babe Ruth ball was chosen--this was probably around 1936 so Bill would have been about 12.

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by w7imel

There was a ball similar to yours on ebay that had a great story. Babe was traveling and at a stop he tried to get Ruths auto and his personal manager grabed the ball and signed it like yours. The guy told him he wanted babe to sign it and he told him "unless your a kid or have a skirt this is the only babe ruth autograph your getting." So this ball could be same senario.

Bullshit.

[Mr. Zipper]

Did anyone have a huge memorabilia collection in the 1930s? Even a railroad baron?

"Comped" seems like an unusual word choice for someone in heir mid-80s.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by niembre

Hello,
New to the forum. My wife's grandmother gave us this Babe Ruth autographed baseball. My wife's grandfather got the ball around 1936 from a president of a railroad company. He was around 12 years old. The ball has ES Barnard stamped on the side, so it dates to around 1929. The autograph does not look right to me though. I just do not understand why they would forge and autograph in the 30's. Could this be a clubhouse signature? All thoughts are welcomed.
Thanks

...since all thoughts are welcome. Let's assume the best - you are honest, your wife is honest. Unfortunately, with those assumptions, that means that your wife's grandfather is the blatant liar in the story. Let's go with that.

[niembre]

She was just telling the story, probably what was told to her by my Wife's grandfather. She also found a program from the 1940 all star game in Saint Louis (signed by comedic actor Joe E Brown), a scorecard from the 1937 Saint Louis Cardinals, signed by the majority of the team (notables are Johnny Mize, Joe Medwick, and Frank Frisch), and a 1938 scorecard between the Indians and St. Louis Browns with several signatures of the Indians. Most notably Bob Feller (who pitched and got the win that day.
Here are some pictures.

[RichardSimon]

Pinocchio is lurking somewhere in this story.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper

Did anyone have a huge memorabilia collection in the 1930s? Even a railroad baron?

"Comped" seems like an unusual word choice for someone in heir mid-80s.

For certain.

[niembre]

Originally Posted by Runscott

...since all thoughts are welcome. Let's assume the best - you are honest, your wife is honest. Unfortunately, with those assumptions, that means that your wife's grandfather is the blatant liar in the story. Let's go with that.

No need to lie about anything. He had to get the ball from somewhere during that time. I took the ball to antiques roadshow in Austin this past summer and the lady who looked at it also did not think that it was a real signature, but she was certain that the ink on the signature was from that time period (30's) She just told me that she is not an authenticator, but the signature did not look like a real ruth signature (which I agreed).

[RichardSimon]

That is some conclusion from the roadshow lady.
To analyze what era ink comes from costs a four figure sum and hours of lab work.
And just because it is old ink, does not mean it was signed in 1930's. Old ink is readily available now.

[niembre]

All I know is that the ball was sitting in the same hallway since at least the 1950's because my wife's mom has always known about that ball. It's not like it just showed up in the house within the past couple of years. They have no reason to lie about it and I am not on here saying that it is real, but the ball from that timeframe has to have some value, regardless of the signature.

[Klrdds]

After reading these posts I feel that you are looking for an opinion on 2 topics:
1. is this ball worth anything autographically speaking because of the bogus Ruth autograph that you know is bad and has a sketchy background at best, and
2. Now that the ball has been shown to have a bad Ruth auto with some questions about its history in the family you are now wanting to know if the ball alone has any value in spite of this bad Ruth autograph.
You now know that to this autograph forum the ball is essentially worth nothing. I would now recommend reposting this thread to the Vintage Memorabilia including Game Used Forum for their opinion based upon your ( the OP) last post where you wonder does this ball have any value at all even with the bad Ruth autograph. Just a recommendation to get both viewpoints as you clearly seem to want to do.

[w7imel]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

Bullshit.

Dave all I was passing along was a story that I saw for an auction that was on ebay. The guy who bought the ball from a older guy said that was how he came accross his "ghost signed". Dont know if true or not just the story that was told. Wasnt there to witness

[keithsky]

Damn you guys. This guy says he is new to the forum and just was asking questions. What is everyone ripping him for? I don't know him but no need to treat him like crap for his first question. No wonder people get pissed and leave on here. Wow

[w7imel]

++++++++++1

[Duluth Eskimo]

That's because the only way some people can make themselves feel good is to put others down. I don't think the OP ever argued against the opinion that the signature is bad, he's just asking non advanced collector questions.

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by keithsky

This guy says he is new to the forum and just was asking questions.

Here is a scenario I've seen played out a hundred times on various message boards... maybe it applies to this situation or maybe it doesn't...

A newbie shows up with a "it's been in my family forever" story and "what's it worth?" Meanwhile, to sharp-eyed collectors, the item appears to be a fake of recent vintage.

Why would someone do this? They want to get offline offers and ideally sell the item quickly and privately to another member who hopes to lowball the newbie. A con conning a con.

Maybe that is not the case here. Maybe some folks are too jaded and skeptical. Maybe this has been in his family for 60 years.

But it doesn't appear to be authentic or look like known Ruth period secretarials. So that leaves two possibilities: a forgery of this quality was produced a long time ago or the story is not true.

[Bestdj777]

Given the vast number of fake autos, I think everyone is just concerned when someone new to the forum shows a potentially high value auto and tells a grandfather story. The auto isn't really which makes people question the story.

As for the value of it now, I second the recommendation that you post on the memorabilia side. Older balls have some value, but it's not clear what effect the signature has on the value given it is not real. There is an off chance the ball was not a malicious forgery but is a secretarial that was given out as part of a promotion of some kind and it still has some value (I have no info/knowledge that would support this idea but just saying there are some unknowns). It's also possible that the signature could be removed. Again, no idea.

My recommendation is that you put it on your shelf and enjoy it and the memories it invokes.

[Runscott]

+1 steve.

Some of our holier than thou members have their noses too high in the air to smell bullshit.

Sent from my SM-G730V using Tapatalk

[Duluth Eskimo]

Or maybe people just enjoy putting other people down then play the martyr. I wasn't even talking about you anyway. It probably is bullshit, but who cares.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Duluth Eskimo

Or maybe people just enjoy putting other people down then play the martyr.

That's what I was assuming you were doing - thanks for validating.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper

Here is a scenario I've seen played out a hundred times on various message boards... maybe it applies to this situation or maybe it doesn't...

A newbie shows up with a "it's been in my family forever" story and "what's it worth?" Meanwhile, to sharp-eyed collectors, the item appears to be a fake of recent vintage.

Why would someone do this? They want to get offline offers and ideally sell the item quickly and privately to another member who hopes to lowball the newbie. A con conning a con.

Maybe that is not the case here. Maybe some folks are too jaded and skeptical. Maybe this has been in his family for 60 years.

But it doesn't appear to be authentic or look like known Ruth period secretarials. So that leaves two possibilities: a forgery of this quality was produced a long time ago or the story is not true.

+1

[niembre]

I know it's the truth and that's all that matters. Read my first post, I knew it was not a real signature, I am just curious if you guys have seen anything like this before. I did some google searches and found this site based off of that. I have no intentions on selling the ball I am just curious if it has any value. I figure the ball alone is pretty cool and there is probably not many balls around from 1929. Trust me, if someone offers a $1,000 for the ball, I would not sell it. The ball has sentimental value to me and my wife's family. We aren't even going to tell her grandma that the signature is not real, why upset an 85 year old for something that really is not that important?
It's pretty sad that we live in a society that automatically assumes other people are lying or trying to get over on other people.

[johnmh71]

Originally Posted by niembre

I had my wife's grandmother email me the story because she is now in her mid 80's and he passed away in the 80's. The ball had been in a ball holder sitting in their hallway all these years. Here is what she emailed me about the story behind the ball:

The Evans' were all big sports fans especially baseball, Bills' uncles included. Sundays were spent listening then later watching games. Findlay was close enough to Cleveland, Cincinnati- to drive to . They also saw many games in St. Louis, Jane had an Aunt and Uncle There. Because of Genes' Job as Traffic Manager for Ohio Oil, they received many comped tickets, box seats no less.

At one of the Cleveland games the President of the Nickel Plate Railroad ( I am not sure for this--could have been another RR) asked them to his home for dinner after the game.

He was also a huge sports fan and his den was filled with much memorabilia.

As the evening drew to a close He was so impressed with Bills' knowledge of baseball and sports in general , he told him he could choose anything he wanted from his collection--of course the babe Ruth ball was chosen--this was probably around 1936 so Bill would have been about 12.

Oh I'm sure he had no problem parting with what was probably the best item he had. This story is bullshit. It is as bad as the stories of Ruth signing from his death bed in the hospital.

[yanks12025]

Originally Posted by johnmh71

Oh I'm sure he had no problem parting with what was probably the best item he had. This story is bullshit. It is as bad as the stories of Ruth signing from his death bed in the hospital.

Wow some of you people are just rude!

[niembre]

Originally Posted by johnmh71

Oh I'm sure he had no problem parting with what was probably the best item he had. This story is bullshit. It is as bad as the stories of Ruth signing from his death bed in the hospital.

Again, he had to get the ball from somewhere and he would have no reason to lie about it. He was a 12 year old kid when it was given to him. For all we know, that man who gave him the ball knew it was not real and that is the reason for giving him the ball. Unfortunetly, he passed away in the 80's, so I never got to hear the story directly from him. I've never seen so many quick to judgment people like there are on this board. I guess it's the nature of business you guys are in.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by niembre

Again, he had to get the ball from somewhere and he would have no reason to lie about it. He was a 12 year old kid when it was given to him. For all we know, that man who gave him the ball knew it was not real and that is the reason for giving him the ball. Unfortunetly, he passed away in the 80's, so I never got to hear the story directly from him. I've never seen so many quick to judgment people like there are on this board. I guess it's the nature of business you guys are in.

it's not a business for most here....Forgeries and fish stories are just relentless, day after day, week after week year after year. That's why the quick judgments I think? It's the same BS, just a different day. It has multiplied 10 fold in the past couple of years as you can't tell whose a moron and whose not with-out a scorecard these days.

I for one love the Fish stories! I agree. Don't tell grandma. She'll nag grandpa in his grave and we don't want that....Bad Karma. Good luck

[johnmh71]

Originally Posted by yanks12025

Wow some of you people are just rude!

Seriously? Maybe I'm just sick of forgeries and the people who put them out into the marketplace to lure an unsuspecting buyer. That to me is about as rude as it gets.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by johnmh71

Seriously? Maybe I'm just sick of forgeries and the people who put them out into the marketplace to lure an unsuspecting buyer. That to me is about as rude as it gets.

+1

This "fish" story reeks. The signature on that baseball is indicative of a modern, very poorly done, forgery. No way is it a clubhouse Ruth. And it does not appear to be a situation where that signature has been on the ball for 80 or 90 years, though I would not say that for certain without at least having the ball in hand.

[Duluth Eskimo]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

+1

This "fish" story reeks. The signature on that baseball is indicative of a modern, very poorly done, forgery. No way is it a clubhouse Ruth. And it does not appear to be a situation where that signature has been on the ball for 80 or 90 years, though I would not say that for certain without at least having the ball in hand.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. It looks like a modern forgery. The problem with people is that other people commenting need to show everyone they are right. In the end, who cares? He's not getting a buyer or validation from this board.

As for Scott, you're so smart. I wish I was as smart as you. I wish I could prove to everyone how smart I am. Unfortunately for me, I'm just a small fish and will have to swim in the small pool for ever and ever. Does that make you feel better and validate you more?

[yanks12025]

Lets see he's a new member and came here and asked a SIMPLE question of whether the auto was good or not. He didn't come here trying to sell the baseball to a member and passing it off as being a legit Ruth. But instead you guys just attack him and accuse him of nothing but lies and everything. When in all fact, maybe his story is legit.

Yeah forgeries are a sh*tty part of this hobby and so are all the lies and stuff. But it still doesn't give anyone the right to accuse others of lies and stuff!

[johnmh71]

Originally Posted by yanks12025

When in all fact, maybe his story is legit.

Again.....seriously? People attach all kinds of neat stories to things all the time to affirm their value. I'm not saying that the poster did, but someone has or had a good imagination.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by yanks12025

Lets see he's a new member and came here and asked a SIMPLE question of whether the auto was good or not. He didn't come here trying to sell the baseball to a member and passing it off as being a legit Ruth. But instead you guys just attack him and accuse him of nothing but lies and everything. When in all fact, maybe his story is legit.

Yeah forgeries are a sh*tty part of this hobby and so are all the lies and stuff. But it still doesn't give anyone the right to accuse others of lies and stuff!

Brock - the OP came here with a question and a story, which most of us do not believe. If he did not come here with a story and only a question there would have not been such a long thread. There are so many holes in the story and looking at the ball virtually debunks his story. The ball is a modern day forgery, most here agree with that assessment. I don't think there is anyone who has written on this thread who disagrees with that.
Perhaps you think too much of human nature but many of us on this forum try to look at a story and determine if it is true or false. We just do not take it on face value.

[niembre]

I came on this board hoping that maybe someone would reconize the signature and could possibly identify who actually signed the ball and a timeframe of when the ball was signed. I have no doubt in my mind that the ball was signed in the 30's sometime, however I agree that it was not Babe Ruth who signed the ball. I am going to assume now (because no one else here recognizes the signature) that the person who gave the ball to my wife's grandfather is the person who signed the ball or maybe it is a clubhouse ball from someone who received a request for Ruth's signature and they just signed the ball themselves. I would doubt during that time period, that Offical American League baseballs were available at any drugstore (I could be wrong though), so I doubt many people were forging Ruth's signature for profit in the 30's.

[RichardSimon]

If I had a dollar for every "I got it myself, or grandfather, father, uncle got it,etc" story that I have heard over the years I could retire.
Some were true but unfortunately many turned out to be fairy tales.

And OT from this thread, the best fish story I ever got was the guy who told me he was in the Yankee clubhouse in 1978 and got a ball signed by the team, including Munson. He came to my home and had his 2 teen sons with him. Fortunately, I did not invite him to my apartment but met him in the lobby.
He introduces his sons to me and pulls out the ball that was "signed" in the clubhouse. It was a stamped, facsimile baseball. He freaked out when I told him what I knew it was. He was screaming at me that I was wrong. That he got this ball in the clubhouse. I told him that maybe he did get a ball in the clubhouse but it was not the one he was showing to me. He stormed out leaving me thinking how glad I was to not have him in my apartment.