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#3
11-22-2014, 11:40 AM
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Here is the story behind the card.....
It belongs to a friend of a friend of mine. His story is that it was signed by Mantle back around 1987-89 sometimes in there when Mantle was here for a insurnace convention. He said his father in law was a big wig with this insurance company & he went out with Mickey one night to eat & have some drinks. He states the father in law got it signed for him that night & that Mickey had a few drinks down him when he signed it. As far as the story of the insurance convention I do remember Mantle being in town for that. The guy is needing some money & has offered it to my friend & my friend wants to buy it but he is asking me for my opinion & he wants to get it slabbed the next time I send stuff in to PSA. So my question to you is do you think PSA would pass it? Do you think it is good? I am 99.9% it is good but I have a couple concerns as to weather PSA would slab it. They two things that jump out to me is the gap between the CK in Mickey & the circle dot above the I in Mickey. But you have to consider Mantle signed this in a relaxed atmosphere after dinner & a few drinks. It not like he was sitting at the card show & signing for people coming through the line early in the day. So what do you think? Thanks again, Rober 
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#4
11-22-2014, 11:49 AM
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Robert,
I still hold with my initial opinion of good. Again, whether PSA will slab it, I don't know. Mark
__________________
My signed 1934 Goudey set(in progress). https://flic.kr/s/aHsjFuyogy Other interests/sets/collectibles. https://www.flickr.com/photos/96571220@N08/albums My for sale or trade photobucket album https://flic.kr/s/aHsk7c1SRL
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#6
11-22-2014, 02:19 PM
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If Shelly has weighed in that it is good, I'd recommend saving the money on the fees. He knows Mantle as well as anyone, and I'd trust his opinion.
__________________
Mantle Master Set - as complete as it is going to get Yankees Game Used Hat Style Run (1923-2017): 57/60 (missing 2008/9 holiday hats & 2017 Players Weekend)
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#7
11-22-2014, 02:19 PM
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If Shelly has weighed in that it is good, I'd recommend saving the money on the fees and not sending it in. He knows Mantle as well as anyone, and I'd trust his opinion.
__________________
Mantle Master Set - as complete as it is going to get Yankees Game Used Hat Style Run (1923-2017): 57/60 (missing 2008/9 holiday hats & 2017 Players Weekend)
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#8
11-22-2014, 04:20 PM
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Shelly was so right you had to say it twice
 
__________________
Sign up & receive my autograph price list. E mail me,richsprt@aol.com, with your e mail. Sports,entertainment,history. - Here is a link to my online store. Many items for sale. 10% disc. for 54 members. E mail me first. www.bonanza.com/booths/richsports -- "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure."- Clarence Darrow
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#10
11-22-2014, 05:46 PM
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Thanks everyone for your help on this. Like I stated I was pretty sure it was legit just those two things that I mentioned were driving me nuts. I told my friend the same as Shelly said if it doesn't pass PSA I would buy it from him. He wanted me to post it & see what others thought. I posted it on Sports Collectors Net & Lordstan told me I should post it over here on Net54's site. I am not on here much so I do appreciates everyone help!
Also I sure like my cards in a PSA holder but I agree those guys do not always get them right. Thanks again! Robert
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#11
11-22-2014, 10:37 PM
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Quote:
__________________
Mantle Master Set - as complete as it is going to get Yankees Game Used Hat Style Run (1923-2017): 57/60 (missing 2008/9 holiday hats & 2017 Players Weekend)
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#12
11-23-2014, 07:25 AM
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I'm not convinced that this "Mantle" is authentic.
I'm not saying it is authentic or a forgery. But what makes me suspicious are the indentation lines throughout the sig. Is it possible that was a authentic Mantle sig on this card and it was traced over? MantleSig2.jpg
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#13
11-23-2014, 07:28 AM
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Chris,
I think it's hard to say when a card is signed with a ballpoint. You're right, definitely indentation marks there, but might've just been the amount of pressure MM (if it was him) was using when he signed the card. I always try to avoid pen-signed cards if there is an alternative.
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#14
11-23-2014, 07:30 AM
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[QUOTE=7nohitter;1347211]Chris,
I think it's hard to say when a card is signed with a ballpoint. You're right, definitely indentation marks there, but might've just been the amount of pressure MM (if it was him) was using when he signed the card. I always try to avoid pen-signed cards if there is an alternative.[/QUOT That was my first thought, Ben, but it is certainly something to think about. I'd sure love to have the card in my hand for a few minutes. Last edited by thetruthisoutthere; 11-23-2014 at 07:31 AM.
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#15
11-23-2014, 08:23 AM
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Chris, are you saying the signature is no good. I saw the markings like you did but it would have had to be the best tracing job I have ever seen. If you are looking that closely can you see any other marks but the signature? That is a perfect signature of Mantle with no shakes or smears. Someone had to put it on that card and I would say it was Mantle
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#16
11-23-2014, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
It's one of those autographs I'd like to have in my hand. I know Mantle as well as anyone. It's one of those that I'd like to examine in person.
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#17
11-23-2014, 09:45 AM
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#18
11-23-2014, 11:29 AM
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#19
11-23-2014, 05:46 PM
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I have absolutely no doubt that it is a forgery.
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#20
11-23-2014, 07:20 PM
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Well, we shall see when he sends it in. Hopefully he will send it to PSA because that is the only tpa you trust.
RC tell your friend that if he sends it to PSA and it comes back a forgery I will pay for the cert. Last edited by shelly; 11-23-2014 at 07:22 PM.
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#21
11-23-2014, 07:34 PM
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Just so all of you know. Chris and I are friends. I respect his opinion more than I would any of the tpa.s. I just find this one to be fun and some how we will find out who is correct.
I understand his concern with the outline. I just dont see any sign of another image that was traced. I also feel that the signature is a Mantle signature and not a forgery. I think that this is only the second time we have disagreed on a Mantle signature.
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#22
11-23-2014, 07:39 PM
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#23
11-24-2014, 10:39 PM
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I have asked another expert on Mantle and his thoughts might be in fact correct. That this might be an autopen. If it is I have never seen another one like this. I would love to have this sent in to see if they come up with the same thought. Like I said I have been wrong before. If it is an autopen then we should know about now rather than latter when more of these come out.
He like me said it could be good as well. I would like to thank Chris for challenging me. I will pay for it if your guy wants. Last edited by shelly; 11-24-2014 at 10:49 PM.
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#24
11-25-2014, 01:21 AM
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Thank you all again for the comments.
I am now the owner of this card. My friend did not want to buy it without being able to get it slabbed. I told him that hell I have sent cards in that I got signed in person that PSA would not slabb. Anyways I got it for a fair price I think & I still believe it is good. His father in law is in his 80's now & I did hear him talk about it & about the night he got mantle to sign it after they had been out to eat & had a few cocktails. Shelly & Chris. I do not know either one of you but if you want to see it let me know. Maybe we can work something out where I coulld mail it to you guys. From what I have seen on here you both seem trustful. I do plan on sending it in to PSA on my next batch I send in. Here are 3 HAll of Fame plaques signed by Mickey. Do you think all 3 of them are real? Thanks, Robert
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#25
11-25-2014, 05:13 AM
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Quote:
The one in the middle, as sloppy and ugly as it is, is probably authentic.
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#26
11-25-2014, 05:27 AM
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Quote:
Tom C
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#27
11-25-2014, 09:15 AM
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1
23As for Mickey being drunk. I had him at three different shows. He could sign falling down. That is his bored last one I want to sign. When he started doing that no one got near him. Mikey was very proud of signature. Drunk or sober he would sign a beautiful autograph I think that if you have a jewelers loop and you can go over the first m and see if it starts and stop and the other areas that Chris pointed out it should tell you the story. Like I said it is the first of its kind to be out there if it is auto pened and it would be nice if we know. Look to see if pressure is different as well. I live in CA Chris in NJ which ever one is closer. If you can see it yourself.
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#28
11-25-2014, 09:27 AM
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I would also like to say. This is how you get things done. When someone you trust disagrees with you. You dont yell and scream. You go to another person that you respect and get his thoughts. . Better safe than loose money. JoeD you thought it was good as well any thoughts?
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#30
11-25-2014, 11:39 AM
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#31
11-25-2014, 11:43 AM
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...and I'll also add a 'disagreement disclaimer' - some of the guys who I have had the most heated debates with here, are some of the guys who I now enjoy discussing things with most, Chris being one of them.
__________________
$co++ Forre$+
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#32
11-25-2014, 11:52 AM
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My interpretation from the card is that it was authentic and simply signed under less than perfect conditions with a less than perfect pen resulting in the issues discussed.
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#33
11-25-2014, 12:04 PM
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#34
11-25-2014, 01:12 PM
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__________________
Sign up & receive my autograph price list. E mail me,richsprt@aol.com, with your e mail. Sports,entertainment,history. - Here is a link to my online store. Many items for sale. 10% disc. for 54 members. E mail me first. www.bonanza.com/booths/richsports -- "I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure."- Clarence Darrow
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#35
11-25-2014, 01:34 PM
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Like I said from the start. I like this piece and would still buy it. I brought up other Idea's because I do respect Chris;s opinion. That being said it is time for Chris to tell us why he believes it is a forgery. and not just say its a forgery and nothing more.I think Econ explained it as well as anyone.
Now one last thing. Mantles N is the key. It is perfect an autopen can not be that smooth it would have left a little more of corner on that n also the loop to the n is perfect. Like I said before I have never seen this signature which makes me really believe that it is not an autopen.
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#36
11-25-2014, 04:43 PM
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#37
11-25-2014, 04:54 PM
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When the card comes back from PSA, I will be anxious to know the result.
I was immediately suspicious of the sig the first time I viewed. Has too many issues and it looks too labored. Let's wait and see the PSA result. This is definitely fun.
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#38
11-26-2014, 02:08 AM
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Guys I have looked at this card under a magnifier & my wife's CCTV (she is legally blind & this TV lets you put an item under the monitor & it blows the image up into a larger image) thie card has not been traced, their are no stopping points. The first part of the M in Mickey has been gone overbut what I think happened is he started signing the card & he got distracted telling a story or something & he started over & signed his full signature. I have compared it to the other 100+ Mantle autograph's I have in my collection & I still believe it is real. I even found a photo that Mickey signed for me where he made the circle dot above the i in Mickey.
Yes you read it right I have over 100 Mantle autographs in my collection. My uncle was Cliff Mapes. I was fortunate enough to get to see Mickey 1 or 2 times a year for several years & over that time I got a lot of items signed by Mick. The 3 HOF plaques that I posted are all real & all have been slabbed by PSA. Yes he was drunk when he signed the one in the middle. It was my first one I ever got signed by him & I askedhim to sign it when he was leaving to go back to his room. He about fell over signing it for me. Thanks again & here are a couple more photos I wanted to share with you. The first one is of my Uncle Cliff Mapes taken at Yankees stadium on Babe Ruth day in 1948 when they retired Babe's #3. My uncle was the last Yankee to wear that number. The second is of my uncle wearing #7 congradulating a young rookie name Mickey Mantle after he just hit his first major league home run! Enjoy! Robert
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#39
11-26-2014, 05:26 AM
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First and foremost, everyone have a Happy Thanksgiving.
I wrote Shelly in an email, although it "looks" to be good, my immediately reaction was "there is something not right about it." Too many issues in my opinion. This type of thread is useful and helpful to everyone. When it comes to autographs, the learning process is a daily thing with me and it is very humbling. I am anxious to read the PSA result on the OP's "Mantle."
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#40
11-26-2014, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
(Pats self on back). Tom C
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#41
11-26-2014, 12:24 PM
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I will stay with what I stated at the start. It is a good Mantle. I would not waste money sending it in to PSA.
I was surprised to hear it was a drunk mantle. I saw him fall down piss in a planted pot and get up and sign two hundred baseballs. Each one was better than the next. I only remember when he would start to scribble is when he wanted to leave or take a long break.aka get a drink.
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#42
11-26-2014, 01:41 PM
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#44
11-26-2014, 03:34 PM
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#45
11-26-2014, 03:57 PM
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#46
11-26-2014, 04:00 PM
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They will have it in person to examine and I am very curious. I think they will reject it. Let's wait and see.
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#47
11-26-2014, 04:05 PM
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1962 Topps signed Mickey Mantle
I haven't seen where anyone has mentioned that he made a
circle for the dot over his i. I don't recall ever seeing a Mantle autograph with a circle for the dot over the i like Roger Maris did. Does anyone out there have an example like this? Thanks.......
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#48
11-26-2014, 04:10 PM
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This is a great discussion.
When Robert first posted this on SCN, my gut feeling was that it is good, but there were a few things that left me a little unsure. I also said I wasn't sure if, good or not, PSA would pass it. Because I was aware of Chris' and Shelly's experience with Mantle, I suggested he post it over here to get some more knowledgeable advice. It has been great to see the exchange of information and opinions.
__________________
My signed 1934 Goudey set(in progress). https://flic.kr/s/aHsjFuyogy Other interests/sets/collectibles. https://www.flickr.com/photos/96571220@N08/albums My for sale or trade photobucket album https://flic.kr/s/aHsk7c1SRL
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#49
11-26-2014, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
By the way Ken. I said this was a great thread because no one is bringing up anything but facts about the card. If you want to start a thread about what Chris thinks open a new thread.
Last edited by shelly; 11-26-2014 at 05:05 PM.
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#50
11-26-2014, 10:22 PM
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As a new member in the last year I love discussions like this..........this is what makes the hobby great!!!!!! there is alot of knowledge we tripple A ball players can learn from the HOF crew!!!! lol haha
Last edited by w7imel; 11-26-2014 at 10:25 PM.
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