JSA....We'll take PSA's rejects!!!

[jgmp123]

http://espn.go.com/college-football/...imacy-concerns

The autograph authentication company that has certified more than 1,000 jerseys, photos, mini helmets and other items as bearing the valid signature of Florida State quarterback Jameis Winston received the items only after an initial authentication firm rejected the job because of concerns about their legitimacy, sources told "Outside the Lines."

Five sources who spoke to "Outside the Lines" on the condition of anonymity said that James Spence Authentication got the items only after competitor PSA/DNA backed out of the February signing with Winston. PSA/DNA did so after being told that it couldn't witness the quarterback signing the items in person, sources said.

While it's unknown if he's ever been compensated for his autograph,sources say one firm rejected Jameis Winston items for legitimacy concerns.
The batch of Winston autographs were discovered in the JSA online database in October. James Spence, the company's owner, said in October that he had full confidence that those autographs were authentic, and he reiterated it again this week, through company lawyer Stacy Biancamano.

Winston has never been disciplined for anything related to autographs, and he has not personally addressed the autograph situation.

Spence has repeatedly declined to reveal the identity, or identities, of the customers who submitted the signed Winston items for authentication. But five sources told "Outside the Lines" that the submissions came from individuals who all got their items from a single signing arranged by a Florida memorabilia dealer named Donnie Burkhalter.

Those five sources said that in the first week of February, Burkhalter arrived in Tallahassee to conduct the signing. Burkhalter had taken orders from at least five autograph wholesalers, sources said, which, when counting the pieces Burkhalter was taking for himself, would have equaled more than 1,000 autographs.

Sources told "Outside the Lines" that Burkhalter told those who initially paid for the Winston autographs that the signing came about thanks to his relationship with former Florida State running back and current Atlanta Falcons player Devonta Freeman.

Freeman, through his agent Tony Fleming, acknowledged to "Outside the Lines" that the running back did a signing with Burkhalter after his eligibility expired and confirmed that Burkhalter wanted Freeman to approach Winston earlier in the year, which he did. But Fleming said that his client said Winston told him no, and that's where his involvement ended. Because Burkhalter was relatively new to the memorabilia business, autograph authentication company PSA/DNA had agreed to authenticate the items only if one of its authenticators could be present to see Winston sign them, sources said.

An official with the company flew from New Jersey to Tallahassee to witness the signing and stayed at the hotel where the signing was to take place, sources said. Burkhalter and some of the wholesalers of the signing had set up a couple of rooms full of Florida State gear for Winston to sign when he arrived.

But Winston didn't show up, sources said.

Burkhalter denies that much of this happened. He told "Outside the Lines" that he has gotten items signed by Winston but has never compensated him. He said he never told anyone that Freeman set up an autograph signing and doesn't recall setting up items in a hotel for a Winston signing. He said February was a long time ago, but he didn't get anything close to 1,000 pieces signed by Winston for anyone.

Sources said that hours into waiting for Winston to show, Burkhalter told those in attendance that Winston had decided he couldn't do a signing in the hotel room and instead preferred to do it in an apartment. The conditions? The authenticator and Burkhalter could not be there to witness the signing.

So, sources said, Burkhalter loaded the Florida State items into his truck and returned later with the items signed, telling those waiting back at the hotel that he had to give the batch of items to a person who then got the items signed inside the apartment.

Those who had invested in the signing -- paying Burkhalter between $30 and $40 per autograph -- were very suspicious, sources said.

Under the new signing conditions that occurred, PSA/DNA decided it could no longer vouch for the authenticity of any Winston autographs, a company official said.

Sources said the company had been building a database on Winston's signatures, but that there were enough variations in his signature on various items that the company didn't feel comfortable.

A few days later, Burkhalter and those who had allegedly bought the Winston signatures were in a Tampa hotel room getting the items authenticated by JSA, which was holding an event in the area to authenticate various non-Winston items collectors had brought in.

Burkhalter and the wholesalers brought their own Winston items in, and JSA passed them all.

"JSA is confident in its authentication based on a comprehensive exemplar file and a 10-person authentication panel who independently score the autographs," Biancamano told "Outside the Lines."

Biancamano said the company had Winston exemplars on file that JSA officials had previously seen Winston sign in person, and that all 10 people on its authentication panel said the Burkhalter items were authentic.

"Outside The Lines" showed one of the few known authentic representations of Winston's autograph -- taken from a media statement Winston signed two months before the autograph signing -- to two autograph experts.

One, Rich Albersheim of Albersheim's Historical Memorabilia and Autographs in Las Vegas, said it would be tough to determine authenticity because he wasn't comfortable with the lack of verified Winston representations or exemplars in the marketplace.

The other, Ron Keurajian, a Baseball Hall of Fame autograph specialist, said that in his opinion "these Winston autographs from the supposed signing are done by more than one hand. His authentic signature is very unstructured, which makes it harder to authenticate, but there are many here that actually are structured very well."

PSA/DNA officials said that because they did not accept the job, company policy precluded them from publicly taking a stance on the authenticity of the Winston autographs.

For his part, Burkhalter said he has never forged a Winston signature. "That's the most far-fetched part of this entire story you are telling me," Burkhalter told "Outside the Lines."

On Oct. 14, Florida State officials acknowledged that they were looking into the autograph situation, but head football coach Jimbo Fisher said Winston, after his team's game against Syracuse, told the coach he had not accepted any money for autographs.

Since then, the school has not commented on the state of its inquiry. Last week, Florida State sports information director Rob Wilson said the school would not be commenting on the status of where the investigation stands.

Representatives within the NCAA did not return messages seeking comment. An ACC office spokesperson told "Outside the Lines," that "by general practice and procedure, we would not comment on discussions between our office and a member institution."

Winston's attorney, David Cornwell, has declined to comment.

[RichardSimon]

Is anyone here surprised that this situation has turned into another black eye for the hobby?
And 10/10 experts agreed that 1000 autographs were authentic? In my opinion that is astounding.
And the 1000 items vanished from the control of the dealer and went up to a room with no witnesses to the signing. Wow, that is a lot to take on faith.

[jgmp123]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Is anyone here surprised that this situation has turned into another black eye for the hobby?
And 10/10 experts agreed that 1000 autographs were authentic? In my opinion that is astounding.
And the 1000 items vanished from the control of the dealer and went up to a room with no witnesses to the signing. Wow, that is a lot to take on faith.

+1

[Runscott]

You guys know that you aren't allowed to say anything bad about JSA; however, perhaps we can cut you some slack since you sort of posted something good about PSA.

I wonder what Jason thinks?

"Some people just like putting other people down , and then playing the martyr."

[jad22]

One would think that since there is greater scrutiny on TPAs, that they in turn would make better decisions.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by jad22

One would think that since there is greater scrutiny on TPAs, that they in turn would make better decisions.

If you want them to make better decisions, quit paying them until they do.

[jad22]

Originally Posted by Runscott

If you want them to make better decisions, quit paying them until they do.

Business appears to be booming for all of them, so I guess that won't be happening soon.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by jad22

Business appears to be booming for all of them, so I guess that won't be happening soon.

That's the entire problem. As long as they are making money, there is no incentive to change. But I like the fact that PSA rejected the Winston lot - by showing some integrity, they have separated themselves from JSA. I wonder if JSA knew that PSA had rejected them?

This thing about there being multiple signers is an entirely different matter. I don't see that it is anything new, and we've put up with it for years, so not sure why anyone would have any complaints now.

[Duluth Eskimo]

Originally Posted by Runscott

You guys know that you aren't allowed to say anything bad about JSA; however, perhaps we can cut you some slack since you sort of posted something good about PSA.

I wonder what Jason thinks?

"Some people just like putting other people down , and then playing the martyr."

I'm glad you care how I feel Scott.

Bottom line is that none of us saw the autographs. Does it seem fishy? Of course it does. If I was a felon impersonating a football player I probably wouldn't want witnesses to my misdeeds either. I do however trust the opinion of Rich and Ron K so if they viewed examples and say there are issues I believe them. Luckily for me I'm not in the market for any felon impersonating a football player autographs for my collection. If I were I would do my own homework and not necessarily rely on any one opinion whether it was PSA, JSA, Ron, or Rich. Just to appease Scott, I could care less if someone does rely on one of those companies.

[Duluth Eskimo]

[QUOTE=Runscott;1345690]But I like the fact that PSA rejected the Winston lot - by showing some integrity, they have separated themselves from JSA.

Not sure how this shows integrity, it sounds more like they didn't get their way, took their football, and went home. They state themselves that they never saw the autographs. Now if they saw them and rejected them as some joke of a signature refusing to accept anymore, then making that comment, I may be inclined to agree.

[RichardSimon]

Hot off the presses, the story grows,,,, ( this story is online at http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/sp...raphs-a/nh9fq/ )



Credit the Palm Beach Post:


Florida State quarterback Jameis Winston identified scores of items bearing his signature that were forgeries, sources told the Palm Beach Post.


Winston sat down with FSU compliance officials one month ago to look at the memorabilia being sold online bearing his signature after ESPN reported that thousands of authenticated items were for sale. He was able to point out several signatures that he said were forged and several items that had his signature that he knew he had not signed.


"When he looked at the initial website mentioned by ESPN, he looked at multiple things and said that wasn't his signature," said a source.


Winston viewed items such as jerseys, mini helmets, photos among others with his signature.


ESPN reported Tuesday that one authentication company is questioning the legitimacy of thousands of items being sold with Winston's signature.


The items in question were authenticated by James Spence Authentication. A competitor, PSA/DNA, did not authenticate those items after questioning if Winston ever signed them.


The report said a Florida memorabilia dealer was hoping to get Winston to sign a large amount of items last winter. Even after Winston refused, the dealer produced a batch of items with Winston's name signed to them. No witnesses to Winston signing the items has been found.


ESPN found more than 2,000 certified Winston autographs on JSA's website last month and raised the issue of whether Winston was paid for the signatures, which would be an NCAA violation.


Five days after ESPN's initial report, Florida State released a statement saying it had no information or evidence that Winston was paid. Since arriving at Florida State in 2012, Winston has autographed thousands of items. He has signed thousands at one sitting during fan days or while attending award ceremonies following his Heisman Trophy and national championship winning 2013 season. He also sometimes would sign hundreds a day while he was a member of the FSU baseball team.


Winston has said he tries to avoid signing multiple items for the same person and turns down requests from people who he believes to be dealers.

[Duluth Eskimo]

I wouldn't believe a word he says, but I'm surprised he has time to comment in between defending all his crimes.

I do think it's funny if it's true. People get what they deserve when they choose to spend big money without having any idea what they are buying. It also would be quite a black eye for JSA if true. Either way we'll probably never get the truth unless someone snapped some cell phone video of the signing. I know one thing, doesn't affect me either way.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Duluth Eskimo

I know one thing, doesn't affect me either way.

Really? You quit collecting autographs?

[sbfinley]

Am I the only one who finds it a bit strange for PSA/DNA to be cool with hanging out in a hotel room to witness a collegiate athlete sign a mass quantity of memorabilia? Doesn't... I don't know.... Common Sense??.... Tell you someone's getting paid and this could end badly?

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by sbfinley

Am I the only one who finds it a bit strange for PSA/DNA to be cool with hanging out in a hotel room to witness a collegiate athlete sign a mass quantity of memorabilia? Doesn't... I don't know.... Common Sense??.... Tell you someone's getting paid and this could end badly?

Steve, to some of us it is common sense, but we had a long discussion about this previously, and there are a few forum member who basically feel that JSA is in the autograph-authentication business, and once an autograph is put in front of them, they should take the money and do their job, not considering anything else.

To me it is poor ethics, but to others it is not - we could debate ethics and morality all day and get nowhere. It's right up there with religion and politics.

[tazdmb]

I see no problems with it, they are not there to be a judgement of moral character and be an enforcer for NCAA regulations, they are there to perform their job to ensure the autograph is authentic. I, for once, applaud them.

[sbfinley]

I'm just surprised people are okay with a TPA being a party in an action that could cost a kid his college eligibility when they're slammed on a daily basis for what they will and won't cert.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by tazdmb

I see no problems with it, they are not there to be a judgement of moral character and be an enforcer for NCAA regulations, they are there to perform their job to ensure the autograph is authentic. I, for once, applaud them.

Yes insure the autograph is authentic.
1000 autographs x 10 experts = 10,000 examinations. The original dealer was paid $30-40 per autograph so guestimate he paid $5-10 (?) per examination. Do the math, does this work out? I think not
In addition the player himself has now said he has seen autographs that were authenticated, on ebay, but not authentic.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Yes insure the autograph is authentic.
1000 autographs x 10 experts = 10,000 examinations. The original dealer was paid $30-40 per autograph so guestimate he paid $10 (?) per examination. Do the math, does this work out? I think not
In addition the player himself has now said he has seen autographs that were authenticated, on ebay, but not authentic.

So basically, JSA can ignore ethics and even ignore the process of authenticating the autograph...and still get paid.

I applaud them.

[Runscott]

...removed

[tazdmb]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Yes insure the autograph is authentic.
1000 autographs x 10 experts = 10,000 examinations. The original dealer was paid $30-40 per autograph so guestimate he paid $5-10 (?) per examination. Do the math, does this work out? I think not
In addition the player himself has now said he has seen autographs that were authenticated, on ebay, but not authentic.

I am not following this, what I meant was I am glad PSA had the decency not to authenticate these items that they could not see in their presence, which they would do that more often.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by tazdmb

I am not following this, what I meant was I am glad PSA had the decency not to authenticate these items that they could not see in their presence, which they would do that more often.

The first sentence was sarcastic. The rest of it was pointing out the impossibility of trying to authenticate 1000 with 10 examiners in a relatively short period of time.

[HRBAKER]

The crab leg story was a lot easier to follow.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Really? You quit collecting autographs?

yes, I did...