Bigger Jerks Than Joey Belle in the Hall of Fame

[trdcrdkid]

Originally Posted by packs

I have no idea if independent research has verified but I do remember hearing stories that Hornsby and Speaker were members of the Klan.

Rogers Hornsby was pretty much universally regarded as a complete bastard, among the least-liked players of his era. From his SABR bio:

"Hornsby, however, was almost as well known for his bluntness and complete lack of diplomacy as his prowess with a bat. He rarely argued with umpires but said whatever crossed his mind to anyone else, including the owners he worked for. Longtime Cardinals owner Sam Breadon remarked that listening to Hornsby was like have the contents of a rock crusher emptied over his head...

Hornsby’s managerial career was far less successful than his playing career, however, especially at the major-league level. He managed for all or part of 15 big-league seasons with six franchises, achieving by far his greatest success as player-manager of the 1926 world champion St. Louis Cardinals.6 However, his overbearing, often irascible personality created poor relations with both players and owners, and led to his being fired at every post, sometimes in midseason..."

https://sabr.org/bioproj/person/b5854fe4

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by trdcrdkid

Rogers Hornsby was pretty much universally regarded as a complete bastard, among the least-liked players of his era. From his SABR bio:

"Hornsby, however, was almost as well known for his bluntness and complete lack of diplomacy as his prowess with a bat. He rarely argued with umpires but said whatever crossed his mind to anyone else, including the owners he worked for. Longtime Cardinals owner Sam Breadon remarked that listening to Hornsby was like have the contents of a rock crusher emptied over his head...

Hornsby’s managerial career was far less successful than his playing career, however, especially at the major-league level. He managed for all or part of 15 big-league seasons with six franchises, achieving by far his greatest success as player-manager of the 1926 world champion St. Louis Cardinals.6 However, his overbearing, often irascible personality created poor relations with both players and owners, and led to his being fired at every post, sometimes in midseason..."

https://sabr.org/bioproj/person/b5854fe4

According to one account, when Alexander came in to face Lazzeri in the 1926 WS, Alexander told Hornsby how he was going to pitch him. Hornsby was about to protest the inside fastball on the second pitch (which, as Alexander predicted, he would foul off), but then decided he would just be quiet and defer to a man who to that point had won something like 350 games. It was a gutsy move to go to Alexander in the first place because he had just won the previous day and, on top of that, was hung over.

[jhs5120]

Ty Cobb climbing into the stands to beat the crap out of a crippled heckler is probably one of the more disgraceful things to have happened at a ballpark.

Not to mention his other assaults.

[packs]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

Ty Cobb climbing into the stands to beat the crap out of a crippled heckler is probably one of the more disgraceful things to have happened at a ballpark.

Not to mention his other assaults.

Almost nothing about the public perception of Cobb is true. He did beat up a guy without fingers, but his entire team supported him doing so. They even refused to play a game after he was suspended and fined for doing it.

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by packs

Almost nothing about the public perception of Cobb is true. He did beat up a guy without fingers, but his entire team supported him doing so. They even refused to play a game after he was suspended and fined for doing it.

Many of Ron Artest’s teammates defended him. Not sure it makes the situation any better.

Many of the stories about Cobb are true, but some of the facts are questioned. “Yes, Cobb assaulted a bell boy, but not because he was black (as if that’s important).” “Yes, Cobb beat the crap out of a cripple, but he was missing seven fingers, not both hands (as if that makes the situation less appalling).”

Ty Cobb was a prick. A ‘troubled beauty’ sure, but also a prick. He was responsible for some of the game’s ugliest moments.

[packs]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

Many of Ron Artest’s teammates defended him. Not sure it makes the situation any better.

Many of the stories about Cobb are true, but some of the facts are questioned. “Yes, Cobb assaulted a bell boy, but not because he was black (as if that’s important).” “Yes, Cobb beat the crap out of a cripple, but he was missing seven fingers, not both hands (as if that makes the situation less appalling).”

Ty Cobb was a prick. A ‘troubled beauty’ sure, but also a prick. He was responsible for some of the game’s ugliest moments.

If you're citing events in Al Stump's book none of them hold any water. What are your sources for these moments?

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by packs

If you're citing events in Al Stump's book none of them hold any water. What are your sources for these moments?

Leerhsen's book, A Terrible Beauty. He puts in so much effort to dispel the notion that Cobb is racist and that Stump’s book exaggerated that he doesn’t realize he still paints a fairly aweful picture.