Rose Company Postcards

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Posted By: Patrick McMenemy

Just curious as to whether our postcard collectors have seen examples of Rose Company Postcards PC760 with players from the Springfield, MA team?

I was aware that there were Minor League examples from the Scanton, PA team, and well as numerous Major League team examples, but I had never heard mention of any other Minor League teams.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2228798950&category=4094

Any thoughts?

Patrick

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Posted By: peter thomas

I have never seen any ML Rose cards. These look amazing, but with 13 seem almost too good to be true. The back writing seems to confirm the massachusetts location.

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Posted By: petecld

I don't collect this set so someone with who does can correct me if I'm wrong but comparing them to a small number of scans I have I noticed a few "interesting" things:

1) In all of the scans I have the photo is cut right to the gold frame. These all have a white area between the image and the gold frame. Is this odd for the issue?

2) All the scans I have show an indoor setting where as these are all outdoor settings. Are there other outdoor portraits?

3) The font style, size and placement used on these is different from the style, size and placement used in my scans. When I say placement I mean within the white box. Does this set use different type styles, sizes, etc.?

4) The sellers say they came from an album but i see no glue residue of paper loss on the backs. Is that odd?

Could this be the work of a Springfield fan or even the team? Someone bought real Rose postcards and altered them to appear they were issued for this team?

None of these names appear in the SCD guide. 13 undiscovered Rose postcards - all from one team? Too good to be true??????

Things that make you go hmmmmm........

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Posted By: Anonymous

not to mention they all look badly trimmed as well. You have to be cross eyed to think the edges look straight.

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Posted By: Reid

As an aside, I ran across a postcard manufactured by Rose Company which depicts a cartoon drawing of a baseball player and titled "Texas Leaguer". If I remember correctly, I think it was dated 1908. If anybody is interested, I'll see if I can get a scan up to the board.

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Posted By: Cycleback

Not commenting on the signatures, the postcards look legitimate to me.

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Posted By: RobertS

Odds are these are real -- why would someone go to the trouble of trying to intentionally mislead by manufacturing a Springfield set with all unknowns?

Yes the Scranton players are highly scarce, but someone would surely realize inventing a new team set would raise eyebrows. Also, non-collectors would never realize the Scranton commons were rarer than the MLBers and would likely believe the big leaguers were more valuable.

As for the waviness of the borders -- they may or may not be trimmed -- but anyone who ever scanned in a whole bunch of postcards knows they almost never lie flat on the scanner without a weight coveirng the entire card and thus appear wavy. Remember, postcards are larger than baseball cards and more easily warp or bend slightly -- even when stored correctly.

That said -- this certainly is an odd discovery. Has anyone asked the seller what else was featured in the "scrapbook" and where they were discovered? I haven't, because I certainly can't afford this group!

One last thing -- I've seen some previopusly uncataloged Rose cards before -- with promotional text instead of photos, with drawings instead of photos and even the odd unreported player (but never Springfield players).

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Posted By: petecld

RobertS,

What you say is correct but if someone is going to create a card to deceive you would want to get as close to the original as possible and these have obvious differences to originals. Plus, like you said, why pick Springfield?

I feel a fan of the team did these back in 1909 to get player autographs. They look to be authentic Rose postcards but made up to reflect players of the home town team that the Rose company skipped.

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Posted By: RobertS

Maybe these were homemade. More interestingly, Rose seems to have provided blanks to local businesses for them to get custom printed (with advertising images in the oval and with printing on the reverse).

Perhaps, Rose even did some of the custom printing itself for customers.

Good obesrvation/suggestion -- I wish I had though of it myself!

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Posted By: brian p

I have never even come close owning or touching a Rose postcard, but because of the 138 pictured in the Classic Baseball Cards book I was able to make a couple of obversations about these Springfield versus the known cards.

1. Like Pete has stated,the photos on the known Rose cards all seem to touch the gold circular frame.

2. The print on the front, though similiar, is not exactly the same. These Springfield cards appear to have bolder lettering, and the font is slightly different (I noticed it especially on the capital 'W'--on the known copies the middle 'bars' cross significantly lower).

I like the theory that these were blanks that a fan produced--they look authentic enough.

Brian

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Posted By: Rhett

Is the Collins in this lot "Shano" Collins that began playing for the White Sox in 1910? I know his name was James F. Collins, and the autograph on back of the Collins card is J. F. Collins. He was from Mass as well, I believe. Can anybody confirm that he played for Springfield in 1909?

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Posted By: matt

Just wanted to let you guys know I have a few Rose Postcards for sale. Email me if interested. Unfortunetly, they aren't cheap though-

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Posted By: JC

I have a feeling that these were blank Rose Post cards that do exist. Check the last Jackson auction to see some. I e-mailed the seller with a few questions like do they stand behind them if they are not real or if they have been tampered with? This is the reply

Hi JC, There is a white space in between the circle and the picture, and I
do think they are real photos that are glued on, but they came that way, and
I am sure they are original and good. I state in the auction that I will
guarantee all of my merchandise, and I do. I am sure they are not
conterfits, and I will guarantee them. I have had so much mail, and so much
trouble with somebody trying to scam the bidders, that I am seriously
thinking of canceling the auction, and sending them to some place like
Hunt's, or at least taking them someplace else to sell. I am not an expert
in sports postcards, as a matter of fact I usually sell $5.00 locations. I
bought a lot of six albums picked from a Vermont estate over the winter. I
have done business with the person I bought them from for 12 years, and my
mother (I am a second generation antique dealer), did business with him for
30 years. So I am positive they are OK. All of the albums had been amassed
by a Mrs. Josephine Edger, whose husband John was one of the proprietrs of
the Russel House Hotel in Springfield, Mass.. I paid alot, because I thought
they were good. Now I have been told they were not previously known to
exist, and I am at a loss as what to do. I am willing to let anybody examine
them in person. Thanks, Joan Bush - Ottosmom


I believe the seller does not know much about them nad wants to let the Ebay market set the price... I do not like the fact the Pictures have been "GLUED" in..

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Posted By: Joan Bush - Ottosmom

Hello, I am the seller, I can't help some things, like that the pictures are glued. I can't seem to help the fact that people cant' seem to contact me so I added my shop phone number to the auction. I know my phtography stinks, so I did manage to get some better images on for you guys to look at. I have never posted to a forum so I don't even know if this will work. I can tell you the 6 albums I purchased were the ammased collection of Mrs. John (Josephine) Edger, whose husband was the proprietor of The Russell House Hotel in Springfield, Mass.. The rest of this album was theatricaL stuff, Barnum and Bailey circus postcards, Buffalo Bill Wild West Show postcards, Billy Sunday Evangelist postcards, alot of hotels, and alot of common stuff. Normally I would never buy a Springfield or a Boston album, to many common cards, there was one of each uin the lot. the other 4 albums are small town New England, and alot of costal stuff. By the way I am a real person, thank you very much, Joan Bush - Ottosmom

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Posted By: Cycleback

Likely, these were prepared by a local photography studio and were not mass-produced commercial issues. If you look at a 1900s cabinet card where the photographic image is circular or oval, the image is often handcut-- so there's nothing peculiar by an uneven cut here. The Rose Co.'s baseball themed postcard would have been a stock background used by the studio.

In the early 1900s, the real photo postcard slowly replaced the cabinet card as the display photo of choice, so it should not be unexpected that a local studio would prepare a team real photo postcard or individual player real photo postcards, just as they could a set of cabinet cards.

I beleive that these are legitimate real photo postcards, but should be considered distinct from the Rose Co. Postcards depicting Cy Young, Chisty Mathewson et al-- which where more than likely commercially issued items.

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Posted By: Joan Bush - Ottosmom

Hi, I am the seller, and I can't help it if poeople think that I counterfitted these. I can only say that they are wrong. I don't even know enough about Baseball anything to counterfit anything. What are the Scranton players?? What is MLB mean?? major league Ball or Minor League?? I really don't know. I do know these postcards are old, and are original, and came out of an album that had never been touched. I will guarantee them, and anybody who wants to look at them can. I know about glass, china, linen, and I thought I knew something about postcards, but i guess I only knew enough to buy the albums. Thanks very much, Joan Bush - Ottosmom

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Posted By: ramram

her other items she has for sale on ebay currently. You'll see some other Springfield players and a team image that ties in neatly with the postcards. I don't think there is any doubt that they are of the period. It's just a question of how they were issued at that time.

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Posted By: ramram

for what it's worth, You can also notice the same backdrop in some of the Rose photos and the team image she has for sale.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4094&item=2228952890