OT: Home Run Derby

[KCRfan1]

Originally Posted by ramram

Hope Judge doesn't turn out to be juiced. Amazing.

Rob M

Well,

Supposedly MLB routinely tests the baseballs, they are ok, within MLB standards.

The bats are what they are.

Something is very different this season. The home run total for the league is going to be smashed. Yonder Alonzo ? is on pace for 30 or 40 homers. So is Smoak, and Morrison. Moose is on pace for about 50. NOTHING about the Royals are different this season. The fences weren't moved in, we didn't add home run hitters, yet the team is going to best their home run total by a good margin . ?

Is Judge juicing, I have no idea. But something in the game changed. I do think players are juicing, who is or isn't beats me. I have no proof, just an open mind that something in the game is going on.

Baseball only tests for what they deem illegal.

[Snapolit1]

It's rather remarkable after what we lived through in the 80s that I have yet to see a single article questioning whether anyone is juicing. All about the ball. Rather remarkable lack of a collective spine in baseball journalists. Maybe no one is. But isn't the question worth considering?

[Peter_Spaeth]

In three minor league seasons Judge hit 50 some home runs and hit in the .270s. His meteoric rise does seem incredible at age 25, but who knows.

[bmattioli]

We all remember Joe Charboneau.. Baseball is a funny game..

[KCRfan1]

Super Joe had minor league totals similar to his MLB numbers.

The numbers the players are putting now, are very out of the norm.

[ajjohnsonsoxfan]

Originally Posted by MattyC

I have been into collecting Judge for a while now, along with Sanchez, Frazier, Bird, and other young Yankees.

Here is a good list of Judge's— let's just call them Top Tier— cards, for you or anyone interested. Would have been helpful had I seen a list like this when I began, so as my recently departed nana said, "Do unto others..."

I won't rank them since they are all in the premiere bucket, so to speak:

- Topps Heritage Real One Auto Red and Blue

- Topps Heritage SP 'action variation.'

- Topps Archives Bazooka Auto, FFA Auto, and Rookie Stars Auto, these come in a base white border, with very rare colored parallels.

- Topps Heritage "dual" card with Tyler Austin - rare variations (Heritage makes special Gold Refractors/5, Blue Refractors/68, Chrome Refractors/568, as well as Flip Stock variation/5, Gray Back/10, Yellow Back/25, and Blue Border/50.)
The Refractors are quite attractive IMO in hand, and the Blue Border as well. The Flip Stock is very cool in hand, perhaps my favorite.

- 2013 Bowman Chrome Draft Auto, and its various colored parallels.

- 1987 style Topps Series 1 (2017) Auto

- Topps Now also does some very cool and noteworthy collector-driven cards to commemorate specific highlights.

Hope that helps.

This is in essence what's wrong with modern cards. THERE'S TOO DAMN MANY OF THEM! :-)

[yanksfan09]

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

Right, but he didn't exceed RC limits in 2016 either. So Topps couldn't consider that 2016 card his rookie. Not until he exceeded RC status for the season are they allowed to use the "RC" logo.

I see your point, but this is just the answer as I understand it not my opinion. Some collectors, myself included, will include any card that was put out in conjunction with other major leaguers within a set (as opposed to a set that was only MiLB and prospects). That just isn't the technically defined status as determined by MLB and Topps.

None of the new made up rules for "RC" logo cards seem to make much sense. Topps actually did make one RC logo Judge/Tyler Austin dual card in an obscure release in 2016 available only to Yankee Stadium season ticket licensees as part of a 3 card gift set to certain members of Yankees legacy club...

Not sure if most collectors are even aware of this issue.

[kailes2872]

I was at the HR Derby (and ASG as well). With the heavy hispanic/latin influence Miami was a great place for the festivities. What they did with the Latin American members of the HOF with the first pitch was very nice.

Seeing the HR derby live was pretty cool. It was a different experience than what I have seen on TV as it is easy to tell at the crack of the bat if it is going out. Judge had a few that hit high on the pane glass/back wall. I was a bit bummed that it wasn't Stanton vs Judge in the end, but Sanchez did very well to beat Stanton and Giancarlo had a very slow start.

The AS game was tough to watch. Not a ton of action, a lot of substitutions, relievers. I was ready to go about 4 innings in, but stayed for the entire thing. When it went to Extra's I was dreading it a bit, but Cano did us a favor and ended it quickly. I had an early Tee Time yesterday morning, so it had been a long day after a very long night the night before - so maybe it wasn't as boring as I had actually felt - but more than half of the stadium had cleared out by the 7th inning - not sure if that was clear on TV.

I did hear that Topps was using fabric from Judge's socks at the derby to create some cards - and they were looking to go in the $1500 range. Just insane - I cannot fathom that anyone would desire that or be willing to pay for it - but then again some look at my collection and can't believe that I would spend my hard money on it...

[Jay Wolt]

Originally Posted by kailes2872

I did hear that Topps was using fabric from Judge's socks at the derby to create some cards - and they were looking to go in the $1500 range. Just insane - I cannot fathom that anyone would desire that or be willing to pay for it - but then again some look at my collection and can't believe that I would spend my hard money on it...

Kevin here is a cheaper version that Topps produced, & is Sold out!
Still crazy for the price

https://www.topps.com/sock-relic-to-...topps-now.html

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[iowadoc77]

This is why I have gotten rid of almost all of my new and shiny cards. SO volatile. SO much done on emotion. This weeks $10,000 bowman chrome rookie may not sell for 10% of that in a short time based on many factors, especially if someone else is getting hot. It's absolutely crazy.
But Judge is fun to watch.
I actually loved watching Bour swing out of his shoes launching bombs into right field. He was having a good time and putting on a derby clinic!

[Tabe]

I don't really understand why collectors care, allow card companies to dictate, what some company or MLB decides is a player's RC. Who cares if a card has "RC" next to it in some guide if another card, with the player in his MLB uniform, came out 4 years earlier? Collect what you want - why care what MLB says you should collect?

[Peter_Spaeth]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1996-Fleer-U...kAAOSw0j9ZWUGk
Not sure how this is a rookie, but maybe by today's standards it is.

[MattyC]

Originally Posted by iowadoc77

This is why I have gotten rid of almost all of my new and shiny cards. SO volatile. SO much done on emotion. This weeks $10,000 bowman chrome rookie may not sell for 10% of that in a short time based on many factors, especially if someone else is getting hot. It's absolutely crazy.
But Judge is fun to watch.
I actually loved watching Bour swing out of his shoes launching bombs into right field. He was having a good time and putting on a derby clinic!

I agree with what you say about the derby and watching Judge.

It's just worth adding that one could say all collector choices are made on emotion. At least all my purchases are.

In terms of the volatility of modern, well of course when the player is active, especially before there is a long body of work, performance extremes will create price extremes. That's just par for the course with modern.

As someone who only collected PreWar and vintage, I find the thrill of rooting for a live player I collect to be something quite rewarding and fun— and it's a rush that only modern cards can provide. It coexists well with the other collecting pursuits.

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1996-Fleer-U...kAAOSw0j9ZWUGk
Not sure how this is a rookie, but maybe by today's standards it is.

I personally would prefer a 1995 card if I cared about Jeter, but I don't think it's that unreasonable to consider a card issued in the year that he was Rookie of the Year to be, you know, a rookie card.

[Leon]

Wasn't aware but unfortunately am now. To each their own, I can't stand much about MLB today including the. games, players and cards.....other than that it's great though.

Originally Posted by yanksfan09

None of the new made up rules for "RC" logo cards seem to make much sense. Topps actually did make one RC logo Judge/Tyler Austin dual card in an obscure release in 2016 available only to Yankee Stadium season ticket licensees as part of a 3 card gift set to certain members of Yankees legacy club...

Not sure if most collectors are even aware of this issue.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

I personally would prefer a 1995 card if I cared about Jeter, but I don't think it's that unreasonable to consider a card issued in the year that he was Rookie of the Year to be, you know, a rookie card.

Except that nobody in the hobby considers it his rookie card, and everyone in the hobby considers his 1993 cards to be his rookie cards.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Leon

Wasn't aware but unfortunately am now. To each their own, I can't stand much about MLB today including the. games, players and cards.....other than that it's great though.

Between the lines it's still the same game, fortunately.

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Except that nobody in the hobby considers it his rookie card, and everyone in the hobby considers his 1993 cards to be his rookie cards.

Is it fair to assume then that anyone who has ever used the word prookie is not in the hobby?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

Is it fair to assume then that anyone who has ever used the word prookie is not in the hobby?

Nobody considers Jeters' 1993 cards to be pre-rookies, as far as I know. 1993 is generally and widely considered to be his rookie cards. As has been discussed this is not consistent with the way people now think of rookie cards, but that's a different matter.

[irv]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Nobody considers Jeters' 1993 cards to be pre-rookies, as far as I know. 1993 is generally and widely considered to be his rookie cards. As has been discussed this is not consistent with the way people now think of rookie cards, but that's a different matter.

It's silly to think otherwise, imo, but I guess, for those that don't own one, choose to believe some of his later ones can also be considered his RC, especially if they read something to that effect in an article.
http://www.cardboardconnection.com/b...r-rookie-cards

[darwinbulldog]

Never really thought about it, but to what extent is that just because his minor league team was called the Yankees and wore pinstripes? It seems like if they had been called the Hound Dogs and worn lime green polka dotted uniforms it would be considered the textbook example of a prookie card. Certainly it is if any baseball card is, no? And I don't want my categorization to hinge on how some minor league team dresses, or, for that matter, on other people's inconsistent use of the English language. Many (most) of the people who would identify the 1993 SP as his rookie card would also tell you 1993 if you asked what year his rookie season in the majors was. So we have the tail wagging the proverbial dog.

What year was it issued? 1993
How many MLB games had he played in prior to that year? 0
That year? 0
The following year? 0
Eventually? 2,747
Did he have cards issued during the year of his MLB debut? Yes.
During the year he exceeded rookie limits? Yes.
Do more than zero people think that the use of the word "rookie" as in "rookie card" is the same usage of the word found in "rookie season"? Yes.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

Never really thought about it, but to what extent is that just because his minor league team was called the Yankees and wore pinstripes? It seems like if they had been called the Hound Dogs and worn lime green polka dotted uniforms it would be considered the textbook example of a prookie card. Certainly it is if any baseball card is, no? And I don't want my categorization to hinge on how some minor league team dresses, or, for that matter, on other people's inconsistent use of the English language. Many (most) of the people who would identify the 1993 SP as his rookie card would also tell you 1993 if you asked what year his rookie season in the majors was. So we have the tail wagging the proverbial dog.

What year was it issued? 1993
How many MLB games had he played in prior to that year? 0
That year? 0
The following year? 0
Eventually? 2,747
Did he have cards issued during the year of his MLB debut? Yes.
During the year he exceeded rookie limits? Yes.
Do more than zero people think that the use of the word "rookie" as in "rookie card" is the same usage of the word found in "rookie season"? Yes.

He is pictured in New York Yankees uniforms. I don't follow your point. The year before Mariano Rivera was pictured in street clothes but everyone considers his 1992 Bowman to be his rookie card. Back then, the thing was major manufacturer/major league set is all that counted.

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

He is pictured in New York Yankees uniforms. I don't follow your point. The year before Mariano Rivera was pictured in street clothes but everyone considers his 1992 Bowman to be his rookie card. Back then, the thing was major manufacturer/major league set is all that counted.

I believe that's a Gulf Coast Yankees uniform, though of course indistinguishable from the New York version, but he wasn't with THE Yankees when the picture was taken. The street clothes issue is a good one and also makes my point; we shouldn't confer or withhold rookie card status because of what the guy is wearing in the photo. I wasn't collecting in 1992 or 1993, so I'll just defer to you on what was going on then. I'm only objecting to your claims about unanimity in the hobby about what is considered a rookie card and that it isn't tied to one's playing career.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

I believe that's a Gulf Coast Yankees uniform, though of course indistinguishable from the New York version, but he wasn't with THE Yankees when the picture was taken. The street clothes issue is a good one and also makes my point; we shouldn't confer or withhold rookie card status because of what the guy is wearing in the photo. I wasn't collecting in 1992 or 1993, so I'll just defer to you on what was going on then. I'm only objecting to your claims about unanimity in the hobby about what is considered a rookie card and that it isn't tied to one's playing career.

Do Gulf Coast Yankees wear NY caps?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1993-SP-Dere...8AAOSwIhxZY9MZ

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1993-Topps-9...UAAOSw8gVYABGN

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Derek-JETER-...cAAOSwHLNZXGqT

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1993-Stadium...kAAOSwWdZZX8CF

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Do Gulf Coast Yankees wear NYY caps?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1993-SP-Dere...8AAOSwIhxZY9MZ

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1993-Topps-9...UAAOSw8gVYABGN

Yes.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DEREK-JETER-...oAAOSwDrNZW7Jm

[darwinbulldog]

Mind you there's also a picture of me wearing a New York Yankees cap in 1996, but that doesn't really prove I played for them.

[iowadoc77]

Originally Posted by MattyC

I agree with what you say about the derby and watching Judge.

It's just worth adding that one could say all collector choices are made on emotion. At least all my purchases are.

In terms of the volatility of modern, well of course when the player is active, especially before there is a long body of work, performance extremes will create price extremes. That's just par for the course with modern.

As someone who only collected PreWar and vintage, I find the thrill of rooting for a live player I collect to be something quite rewarding and fun— and it's a rush that only modern cards can provide. It coexists well with the other collecting pursuits.

Great points! I agree very much with the comment about purchases made on emotion. I can absolutely see how there would be a thrill and excitement at the success of people you collect. For me it was the opposite. It created more of an anxiousness than excitement. I collected Russell Wilson football cards and had quite a bit of cash tied up in those. Football is even much more volatile than baseball IMO with a shorter season and injuries etc. I sold them (and picked up a T206 Magie which I like much better) and so i enjoy watching games more now. I am exclusively prewar and vintage at this point and very content with it.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

Mind you there's also a picture of me wearing a New York Yankees cap in 1996, but that doesn't really prove I played for them.

He clearly didn't play for them, and interesting on the uniform, but what can I tell you, in the day there was no question at all that the 93s were his rookies, and that 92 was Rivera's.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I think there is also universal, or close to it, consensus that the 1985 Topps Team USA card of McGwire is his RC. Back then it was the major manufacturer/major set criterion.

[darwinbulldog]

I'm told that Jesus was born in 6 B.C. I can't help but think that this is somehow related.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

I'm told that Jesus was born in 6 B.C. I can't help but think that this is somehow related.

Well, he was ahead of his time.

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Well, he was ahead of his time.

Well played.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It's not for purists but still, it's pretty good theater, like the slam dunk contest. What the hell.

I agree with this assessment. It was a great show they put on, especially Judge. Blew away the competition. People will remember that performance. It was the most fun I've had watching baseball on TV in quite a while.

[KCRfan1]

Scooter Gennett should have been in the contest, kind of a Spud Webb among the giants.

He's on pace for about 30 homers in 400 at bats, and a .600 slugging.

Did YOU have your juice this morning?

[iowadoc77]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I agree with this assessment. It was a great show they put on, especially Judge. Blew away the competition. People will remember that performance. It was the most fun I've had watching baseball on TV in quite a while.

+1. My kids even said that this was way more fun than watching a 1-0 pitching duel. Right wrong or indifferent, this is how the next generation sees it in the world of instagram videos and ESPN highlight videos. Most don't want to watch the game, just the highlights. And this event is all highlights.