OT: Two Incredible collapses in one night

[calvindog]

Ahhh baseball. CC performed as per expectations, Verlander did, the rest of the Yankees' inconsistent starters did too. But then the worst of the bunch pitches 5+ innings of one run ball and completely defies every single fan and critic. Unreal.

PS -- it is kind of funny that expectations for starting pitchers are so low that a guy who pitches 5+ innings of one run ball is treated afterward like Sandy Koufax in the 65 World Series.

[Big Six]

Originally Posted by jcmtiger

Yanks12025 the Fat Boy CC with the Small head failed, he let the little hitters kick his butt. Verlander was great and you know it. I will be at the close out game tomorrow. Yanks go Home!!!!!

Joe

Hope you enjoyed the close out game...

[jcmtiger]

It was kind of boring, Tigers did not show up, especially the hitters. Back to new york, more money for the networks.

Joe

[jcmtiger]

Originally Posted by yanks12025

Joe,
Nice clinching game huh. I hope you had fun. I told you we were going home for Game 5.

I had fun, but Tigers did not show up for the game, especially the hitters. Porcello pitched pretty well though.. Game 5 will give the networks more money.

Joe

[yanks12025]

Congrats Tigers,

Well that was trash. Sadly the Tigers didn't beat the Yankees, the Yankees beat the Yankees. We had our chances but failed every single time. At least I know the Tigers wont get past the Rangers.

Also MLB really needs to do something about the Umps, cause these strike zones this whole series was horrible.

[Kzoo]

Good night NY.....Yahtzee!!

[calvindog]

LOL comeon, the Yankees lost because ARod makes $30 million a year and should be batting eighth and the starting pitching isn't very good. They got what they deserved.

[yanks12025]

Originally Posted by calvindog

LOL comeon, the Yankees lost because ARod makes $30 million a year and should be batting eighth and the starting pitching isn't very good. They got what they deserved.

How we had chances every inning of the game to score a bunch of runs, the score should have been 6+. But no the yankee hitters let trash pitchers become Cy Young. And it didn't help that the Ump gave better pitches to the Tigers pitchers then the Yankees(look up the strike zone comparison between before teams).

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by yanks12025

And it didn't help that the Ump gave better pitches to the Tigers pitchers then the Yankees(look up the strike zone comparison between before teams).

Where is the 'crying' smiley?

As a Rangers fan, it would have been great to beat the Yankees two years straight in the ALCS, but the Tigers have a good team that's fun to watch, and I really like Leland. Should be a great series.

Yankees just need to spend more - I'm sure with $30-40 million more they can get to where they need to be.

[jcmtiger]

Originally Posted by yanks12025

How we had chances every inning of the game to score a bunch of runs, the score should have been 6+. But no the yankee hitters let trash pitchers become Cy Young. And it didn't help that the Ump gave better pitches to the Tigers pitchers then the Yankees(look up the strike zone comparison between before teams).

Well, Tigers had the better pitching and Yankees are going home like I said earlier. Arod is gone, and Valverde showed he is the best closer in baseball.

Bring on the Rangers they will be easier than the Yankees.

Joe

[Tim Zwick]

To Go Along With Your Full Case Of Whine cheese.jpg





Probably used to it always watching through your pinstriped glasses hey yankee glasses.jpg




Good News! Only 145 days till the opener

[jcmtiger]

Originally Posted by Tim Zwick

To Go Along With Your Full Case Of Whine Attachment 46969





Probably used to it always watching through your pinstriped glasses hey Attachment 46970




Good News! Only 145 days till the opener

Tim Great Quote., The Yankees are old, Arod is done, Sabatha needs to lose some weight and the manager made some quick crazy moves tonight, and the catcher Martin will probably be gone in the next few years. Not good.

Joe

[Joe_G.]

I'm happy with the outcome, but it was far from a perfect series for either team. I hope the Tigers can gather themselves a bit before Saturday. Verlander, Scherzer, and Fister provided some solid pitching together with some critical offense from unlikely players. These were the keys to slipping past a Yankee team that missed out on some big opportunities in their 3 losses. I watched every pitch and don't share the same feelings as Brock on the strike zone. IMO, it was different game-to-game but applied equally to both teams.

Joe Maples, don't be jinxing the Tigers.

I'm off to Dallas to hopefully enjoy U Texas, OU game early and Tigers, Rangers late.

Congrats to all the teams that made it to post season play, the winners and losers.

[oldjudge]

Congratulations to all the Tiger fans and good luck against the Rangers. I was at the game and the lack of clutch hitting by the Yankees was really disappointing. Joe-I think youy are right on about A-Rod and Sabathia. I think Swisher will be gone next year also. The only bright spot was that Posada went out with a good final series.

[Joe_G.]

Jay, I couldn't agree more with Posada. Nice guy, great series. There were several Yankees that performed above expectations. I was uneasy every time Gardner and Cano stepped into the batter box. Granderson played hard as well, he was my favorite position player before he decided to wear pin stripes. When the Yankees aren't playing the Tigers, I silently root for him.

I'm just glad cumulative runs scored doesn't determine the series winner. NY blasted the Tigers in games 1 & 4. But the Tigers found a way to hold onto 3 close ones.

[barrysloate]

Problem with the Yankees is their core players are getting old and nearing the ends of their careers. Sure, the team will throw a $100 million or so at some overpriced free agents, but it's likely they are beginning a period of mediocrity. Jeter, A-Rod, Mariano, Posada, among others, really can't be replaced.

[vintagechris]

I always hate when fans from the losing team whine about the refs or the umps.
Take the loss like a grown up and move on.

The Tigers won the series like many people who were not wearing Yankees goggles, thought they would. It was an exciting game last night. Seemed like the game was on the line with every pitch, especially those last three innings.

Great entertainment. I really think the Tigers are spent. The Rangers should be going back to the World Series for the 2nd year in a row. Pulling for the hometown boy Josh Hamilton.

[Ladder7]

Originally Posted by tcdyess

My wife was looking at me like I had 3 heads.. she has never seen me root against the Yankees before (and probably never will again). I was so happy to have something to root for after the Yankees locked everything up last week. The utter demise of the Sox has put a little extra sping into my step today. What an incredible way to end the year, after listening to all the Sox fans all year long talk about how they killed the Yankees and hands down were going to the World Series, well I guess that is why they play the games. What theater!!! Two teams with Epic collapses during the last month of season ending on the last day. This certainly shot some life into MLB and is probably another reason we will see an additional wild card team in the near future. The Baseball Gods are smiling today and as the Times (or Post, can't remember) so elequently wrote last weekend....

SOX 2 B U!!!!!

Tim

Hey Tim, My karma ran over your dogma...


Cmon April!

[bh3443]

Great entertainment. I really think the Tigers are spent. The Rangers should be going back to the World Series for the 2nd year in a row. Pulling for the hometown boy Josh Hamilton.[/QUOTE]

I hope Hamilton gets a ring! He deserves it.

[BleedinBlue]

And just like that...

The AL East is gone...

[Kalineman]

The beauty of baseball... Doug Fister, Delmon Young and Don Kelly were all deemed expendable at various times this year by various teams... but they were clutch on Thursday night. Go Tigers!

[yanks12025]

Originally Posted by vintagechris

I always hate when fans from the losing team whine about the refs or the umps.
Take the loss like a grown up and move on.

The Tigers won the series like many people who were not wearing Yankees goggles, thought they would. It was an exciting game last night. Seemed like the game was on the line with every pitch, especially those last three innings.

Great entertainment. I really think the Tigers are spent. The Rangers should be going back to the World Series for the 2nd year in a row. Pulling for the hometown boy Josh Hamilton.

It's not whining when there's proof to prove that the strike zones were different for each team. Half the time the Tigers pitchers got the outside corner, while the Yankees could only get a strike down the middle. Look up the charts, look at how the players acted because of the bad zones and even TBS made comments.

[calvindog]

The Yankees didn't lose because of the umps. They lost because their starting pitching is mediocre as has been their ace the past month of the season. They lost because they've got a zillion dollars tied up in ARod who is actually probably worth about $5 million a year instead of $30 million -- and they're stuck with that albatross of a contract for another six years. Brett Gardner is worth more than ARod right now. They lost because they've overpaid Jeter going forward. They've got a handful of solid players and a few fantastic ones. They got what they deserved and any dispassionate observer could have seen this coming in this series.

[yanks12025]

Originally Posted by calvindog

The Yankees didn't lose because of the umps. They lost because their starting pitching is mediocre as has been their ace the past month of the season. They lost because they've got a zillion dollars tied up in ARod who is actually probably worth about $5 million a year instead of $30 million -- and they're stuck with that albatross of a contract for another six years. Brett Gardner is worth more than ARod right now. They lost because they've overpaid Jeter going forward. They've got a handful of solid players and a few fantastic ones. They got what they deserved and any dispassionate observer could have seen this coming in this series.

They lost because they didn't score runs! Looking forward to next year anyway, hopefully we get rid of Swisher and stuff.

[vintagechris]

Originally Posted by yanks12025

They lost because they didn't score runs! Looking forward to next year anyway, hopefully we get rid of Swisher and stuff.

The Tigers really must be breathing a sigh of relief this morning. Yankees had lots of chances and the game just seemed to have the feel that the Yanks were going to eventually break through but they never did. I really thought A-Rod was going to get a hit when the bases were loaded.

Three cheers for Jorge Posada in this series and last night. He's a class guy and played well.

[vintagechris]

Originally Posted by yanks12025

It's not whining when there's proof to prove that the strike zones were different for each team. Half the time the Tigers pitchers got the outside corner, while the Yankees could only get a strike down the middle. Look up the charts, look at how the players acted because of the bad zones and even TBS made comments.

It's human element. Besides, I thought Benoit had quite a few pitches that didn't go his way when he got into trouble. They sure weren't giving him the outside corner. Sorry Brock, but each time your team lost you complained about the strike zone. To me, that is whining.

I know you may not want to admit this, but the Tigers were the better team. The better team won.

I am one of those people that believe officiating any kind of game is such a thankless job. You are always going to have someone upset with you.

[prewarsports]

My favorite team is the Mariners and my second favorite team is... whoever plays the Yankees. At least I have something to be happy about this year. It was good to see Doug Fister go to a contender halfway through this year. It is not that the Mariners thought he was expendable, they wanted him, but they needed the pieces they got more than they needed another low ERA pitcher on a team that cant hit.

How great would it be for baseball to have the Brewers, D Backs, Rangers, and Tigers fighting for the World Series. Good ole Bud Selig would be happy about one of them I guess!

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by calvindog

The Yankees didn't lose because of the umps. They lost because their starting pitching is mediocre as has been their ace the past month of the season. They lost because they've got a zillion dollars tied up in ARod who is actually probably worth about $5 million a year instead of $30 million -- and they're stuck with that albatross of a contract for another six years. Brett Gardner is worth more than ARod right now. They lost because they've overpaid Jeter going forward. They've got a handful of solid players and a few fantastic ones. They got what they deserved and any dispassionate observer could have seen this coming in this series.

I get most of the post but why even bring up the pitching? Detroit scored 17 runs the whole series.

The pitching staff performed admirably and Girardi made the right decisions handling them at every turn of the series. The starting staff actually had a lower ERA for the season then a Yankee staff has had in a very, very long time. Impressive considering the bandbox they moved into.

Their stuff was not as electric as some of the Tigers pitchers, but they held their own.

They just didn't get the hits when they needed to. Jeter is a tad slower with the bat then he used to be, and the power guys A-Rod and Texiera are not exactly known for tearing it up in the postseason.

BTW, anybody else think Cano hit the ball right on the sweet spot when he broke his bat against Valverde in the last inning? One of the oddest broken bats I've seen and a ball that might have gone a long way if the bat didn't give out. Makes me wonder if the bat had a crack in it already, that Cano didn't notice earlier.

[vintagechris]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

I get most of the post but why even bring up the pitching? Detroit scored 17 runs the whole series.

The pitching staff performed admirably and Girardi made the right decisions handling them at every turn of the series. The starting staff actually had a lower ERA for the season then a Yankee staff has had in a very, very long time. Impressive considering the bandbox they moved into.

Their stuff was not as electric as some of the Tigers pitchers, but they held their own.

They just didn't get the hits when they needed to. Jeter is a tad slower with the bat then he used to be, and the power guys A-Rod and Texiera are not exactly known for tearing it up in the postseason.

BTW, anybody else think Cano hit the ball right on the sweet spot when he broke his bat against Valverde in the last inning? One of the oddest broken bats I've seen and a ball that might have gone a long way if the bat didn't give out. Makes me wonder if the bat had a crack in it already, that Cano didn't notice earlier.

I was thinking the same thing with the Cano AB. He seemed to hit it right on the sweet spot.

I think Barry hit it right on the "sweet spot" in regards to the Yankees. Many of their core players are at the tail end of their careers. Even a guy like Teixeira, who I don't think is over the hill by any means, has been in the league for 10 or 11 years.

The pitching staff could see some serious trouble with their current age.

[jcmtiger]

Originally Posted by Joe_G.

I'm happy with the outcome, but it was far from a perfect series for either team. I hope the Tigers can gather themselves a bit before Saturday. Verlander, Scherzer, and Fister provided some solid pitching together with some critical offense from unlikely players. These were the keys to slipping past a Yankee team that missed out on some big opportunities in their 3 losses. I watched every pitch and don't share the same feelings as Brock on the strike zone. IMO, it was different game-to-game but applied equally to both teams.

Joe Maples, don't be jinxing the Tigers.

I'm off to Dallas to hopefully enjoy U Texas, OU game early and Tigers, Rangers late.

Congrats to all the teams that made it to post season play, the winners and losers.

Hi Joe G. Hope your Old Judge collection is growing. I am in the minority, don't believe in Jinxes. That trip to Dallas sounds great, enjoy.

[yanks12025]

The yankees are only going to get Younger for next year. A.J wont be back, Posada is going to retire, Swisher can leave. . Yankees will sign Yu Darvish, Montero will be in the line-up full-time, Nova will be a starter, same as Hughes. I'm not sure yet that i even would want the Yankees to sign C.C back cause he's choked in the last two playoffs. So I'm thinking, 1. Yu Darvish, 2. C.C 3. Nova, 4. Hughes, 5. Either sign C.J. Wilson or another one of our young arms.

[barrysloate]

Sabathia's problem is he is carrying far too much weight. He was having a fine season until fatigue set in. If he shed 20-30 pounds, he would have had a better September and October.

[carrigansghost]

Yu Darvish???? Please take Dice-k at a discount.

Rawn

[Orioles1954]

The track record of Japanese pitchers translating (no pun intended) to the big leagues is not too good. It seems as if the best only have a couple year shelflife.

[calvindog]

I think the Yankees just have too much money tied up in crap. Posada at a discounted rate as a fulltime DH isn't such a bad idea. But ARod? CC? Jeter? No good. Pitching wins in the playoffs and Nova might be their only 'decent' pitcher (other than CC). Hughes is shot. With the old position players and weak starting pitching they're not fixable in one year.

[tbob]

Originally Posted by Kalineman

The beauty of baseball... Doug Fister, Delmon Young and Don Kelly were all deemed expendable at various times this year by various teams... but they were clutch on Thursday night. Go Tigers!

Nick- Delmon Young was considered expendable by the Twins because they have an imbecile for a General Manager named Bill Smith who is a disgrace. They got the typical bag of rocks for Young, much like the bag of rocks they got for Johann Santana and the bag of rocks they got for JJ Hardy who hit 30+HRs this year. No wonder they lost 99 games this year.
But, I was glad to see Delmon hit the ball so well.
tbob
P.S. Fister was a steal, the Twins passed on him (see above paragraph).

[tbob]

Joe G.- sounds like a great trip! Everyone needs to enjoy the color and atmosphere of an OU-Texas Red River Shootout but unfortunately Texas is the most overrated team in college football this year so it could get one-sided. Still a fun trip. Have fun cheering on the Tigers, I picked them to win it all this year and they have cleared the first hurdle.
tbob

[yanks12025]

Originally Posted by calvindog

I think the Yankees just have too much money tied up in crap. Posada at a discounted rate as a fulltime DH isn't such a bad idea. But ARod? CC? Jeter? No good. Pitching wins in the playoffs and Nova might be their only 'decent' pitcher (other than CC). Hughes is shot. With the old position players and weak starting pitching they're not fixable in one year.

Hughes is shot!!! Thats pretty funny, sure looked good yesterday. And they are fixable in one year. I sure hope your not a Yankee fan, cause if so your a horrible fan. And we dont know yet whether C.C is coming back, he can opt out.

[calvindog]

I'm not a Yankee fan but if I was I'd say the same thing because I'm capable of being objective. And yes, Hughes is shot. I guess we should go on the few outs he got yesterday instead of the entire season. As for your predictive abilities, everything I said about this series came to fruition and everything you said was wrong. Stick with me -- Phil Hughes is not considered the fix to the Yankees' starting pitching problems.

[oldjudge]

Jeff-I don't think there is that much to fix with the Yankees, although they do not require some fixing. Even with the underachieving squad of this season they were probably one good starter away from the ALCS and possibly the world series. If they had been able to sign Cliff Lee we might be having a different discussion now. Are they getting old-absolutely. Jeter and Mariano will more likely than not be worse next year. Arod may or may not be given his injury plagued season this year. He will never be the old Arod (do we even know what the old Arod would have been with the Yankees without the juice?) but with a good off season conditioning program he could be better than this year. Granderson will have a hard time matching this season's numbers but Gardner, Cano and Martin should match or exceed them. Teixeira has a shot at posting better numbers next year, certainly in batting average. If he would only learn to bunt and just occasionally lay one down third he could add thirty points to his average(18 more hits a year based on 600 ABs) and get teams to stop shifting on him. Add to this that they will have Montero for a full season and they really don't look bad in terms of every day players. I would like to see them get a new RF. Swisher is certainly good enough during the regular season but his post season stats make Arod look like a post season superstar. The Yankees have one of the best or the best bullpen in the AL so no issue there. Where they are really weak, as you correctly pointed out, is their starting pitching. They need to get Sabathia back and hopefully back in better shape. Nova has a lot of promise going forward and I am optimistic about Hughes. However, I see these two no better than number three starters. Therefore, I think their most pressing need is a top drawer starter (they grow on trees, don't they?). However, with Posada's contract gone(I would not resign him) and hopefully Swisher gone, there will be some extra money and I would go big for the right guy either via FA signing or trade.

[Kalineman]

You're right, tbob. My boss is a huge Twins fan and he laments some of the moves that the Twins GM has made in recent years. Hey, the Tigers will gladly take "castoffs" like Delmon any time.

[insidethewrapper]

All is well with the world, the mighty Yankees have struck out.

The AL EAST ( AL least) have both teams already eliminated.

That final strike to AROD was greeted with cheers and tears last night by 3 generations of Tiger fans at my house last night.

Go Tigers !

[barrysloate]

If I had to guess whether or not the Yankees will be better or worse in 2012, I would say worse. Sure, they are going to court some high priced free agents in the off season but they will add one or two at most. In the meantime, Posada will retire, Jeter will turn 38, Mariano will turn 42 next month, A-Rod looks shot and his body may in fact be breaking down, Hughes looks shaky at best, Sabathia will not last long if he doesn't get in shape (he does have a healthy arm), and Granderson had a career year which he may not be able to duplicate. And the starting pitching is average at best. This could easily be the beginning of a decline for the team, unless they have a reservoir of talent in the minors, or they can make some incredible free agent acquisitions.

And how much money does A-Rod have left on his contract? I believe over $100 million. That's quite a bit for a player whose productivity is way down.

[oldjudge]

Barry-The whole Yankee model is that if they are a contender/champion they will draw fans, bring eyeballs to the YES network and sell lots of memorabilia. Arods contract and then some is already paid for out of this projected revenue stream. The only thing that can derail this is if they become less competitive and you have a Mets situation where attendance drops, ticket prices are cut, and you get into a revenue death spiral. They will pay/spend what it takes to stay at the top because if they are not at the top then they are at the bottom, there is no middle for them.

[D. Bergin]

Everybody's bagging on Swisher like he's a stiff. He may not be clutch in the postseason in the chances he's gotten so far, but he led the team in OBP for the season and played a solid right field.

I don't think it's as easy to replace a guy like that as everybody is suggesting.

He's also a great clubhouse guy. Yea, I know the Sabremetric guys don't think intangibles like that even exist, simply because they can't assign a number to it. I think it has merit.

[barrysloate]

Jay- I understand what you're saying but there are two things going on here. As far as a business model, they are extremely successful. They have the second most valuable franchise in major league sports and an incredible revenue stream. But if they team is falling out of contention late in the season, it's no consolation to the fans that their bills are paid. They want to see a winner on the field, and that is a question mark.

[celoknob]

Per$onally, I don't $u$pect Yankee$ fan$ $hould worry $o much about the team.

De$pite the fact that they are very badly mi$managed, they are able to with$tand making all $orts of $tupid mi$takes and $till compete ju$t by throwing lot$ of $$$ around and eventually doing $omething beneficial to the club.

They can afford to make front office mistake$ that would deve$tate other teams for year$ ju$t by fla$hing more off$ea$on $$$ and eating huge contract$ of aging $tar$. Meanwhile, more than half the other team$ are ju$t lucky if they can keep their young homegrown $tar$ when arbitration/free agency role$ around.

[calvindog]

Dave, I agree re Swisher.

Jay, I agree that Cliff Lee on this team certainly would have gotten them past Detroit. But a championship? I don't think so.

And Barry, I obviously agree re next year. Too many holes, too much money invested in old, diminishing players. They may be starting a decline. Problem is, who will fill their void? No one else has their money!

[chaddurbin]

we had the $100,000 infield with the philly a's...will we see a $100 million infield with the yankees?

don't worry yankees fans...if fat cc leaves and you got no pitching just throw 200mil at fat prince fielder and move the rf fence in another 50 feet. problem solved.

[oldjudge]

Jeff-I meant getting to the ALCS or World Series, not winning it. I would have thought that the Phillies were a lock for that but they are skating on thin ice with the Cards. Carpenter can easily throw a shutout.