Need Help with this Ball

[kdixon]

Bought this old ball today, would appreciate any information I can get on it. Thanks._MG_0006.jpg

_MG_0008.jpg

[kdixon]

Here is another picture of the ball. Did I put this in the wrong section or something? Does anyone know anything about the ball? Thanks, Kenny.

[deebro041]

What is the circumference of the ball?

[vintagesportflips]

Neat looking ball - Sort of a hybrid figure 8 ball. I would guess its from the 1880's or so. What is the circumference?

[kdixon]

I measured it at 8 and a half inches around with a shoe string.

[drc]

That is an interesting design. I'm not expert, but I'd guess 1880s or maybe even earlier. It's unusual stitching patter no doubt adds to its value as rare styles are worth more.

[John V]

I'm curious. I know nothing about antique baseballs. How hard is it compared to a modern ball?

[kdixon]

It's pretty hard but not as hard as a new one in my opinion.

Wow! A true, 3-seam fastball!

[Cardboard Junkie]

Aloha! I don't know anything about baseballs but could you weigh it? Very interesting 8 1/2 " around. Looks in great shape for 1880 but I wouldn't be surprised if it was. Nice find. Now tell me you bought it for .50cents at a garage sale. Aloha, Dave.

[kdixon]

Here is another picture of the ball. David the ball weighs about 1/4 of a pound. I didnt get it a a garage sale. Bought it from an older antique dealer who had it in his house, not in a store. I had asked him if he had any old baseball items and he said no, then he remembered he had the ball. Thanks for all the great information in the posts and in private messages.

[BigJJ]

After having 5-10 lemon/belt balls, of various size, weight, and construction, I'd say 10 years older, c.1870. In my opinion, this ball is in the tail end of that first generation of adult circumference, yet non-uniform balls.

[kdixon]

A friend put the old ball in this picture. I thought it was kind of cool.

[kdixon]

I have had a lot of people ask me if the ball is for sale. I am going to sell it, but havent decided whether to sell it or auction it off. Feel free to make an offer if you have interest in the ball.
Thanks again for all who gave information on the ball.

[kdixon]

I still have this ball. Probably will put in an auction but would entertain offers. If I go the auction route what company would be the best for a ball like this? Thanks, Kenny.

[kdixon]

Sent ball to Robert Edwards Auction today.Thanks for all the interest and comments.

[kdixon]

Ball is lot 1053 in the current REA catalog...I am told as I haven't got mine yet...

[JMEnglish27]

Very cool...be sure to post what it goes for!

[kdixon]

Ball brought $1100. Feel like someone got a rare bargain. Really thought it would bring at least twice that much. I don't think it helped any that the catalog only had the ball pictured with out any description. Oh well.

[1880nonsports]

Just wondering why you thought it would go for twice that? It is an unusual style but 1300.+ with buyer's penalty is pretty strong. Actually very strong. In general even for something different from most - and getting the peeper's of them what's got money in a major auction like Edwards - exceeding 1000.00 is very significant. Seller should be very happy. All things being equal I figure it's a five or six hundred ball - a price point at which I am probably a buyer. Nice ball no matter what......

[khkco4bls]

I would have thought 700 ,750. It is unusual. I think the seller did just fine..

[kdixon]

Why did I think it would bring more? Had better offers two years ago at the national and was told by REA would do well, somewhere between 800 and several thousand . So they were right, but was hoping for a little more. I do think no description in the catalog didn't help any. Some weird balls in the past auctions did very well, but I am sure not a ball expert at all. Thanks to all for your posts on the ball.

[1880nonsports]

seeing a LP or belt style or even early figure 8 sell for over 2000. and while your ball was very nice I stand by my assessment. Several thousand dollars would be quite a stretch. The buyer paid over 1300. and it sold for 60% more than REA's low estimate to you - and that's not factoring in if there were any shipping or consignment penalties. Given the range REA suggested and sales history of similar items you did quite well. If you were offered more than the final sale price - been there and done that - when one rolls the dice there are many outcomes.....I absolutely agree that a description is a nessesary component of an auction listing (pretty obvious and someone dropped the ball if there wasn't one) but doubt it would have pushed what's basically an early "sandlot" ball any higher as generally those competing in the space don't come in blind. I'm happy for you even if you're not :-)

[khkco4bls]

Why no description...

[1880nonsports]

to them what's responsible. Weren't you able to view your consignment prior to the auction start or early on? I've honestly found Rob and Bryan to be quite responsive to their customer base and other than the prices they get when I'm bidding - feel their auction is second to none other. I wouldn't be happy if it happened to me but sometimes things happen (of note one of my 4 consignments was buried in a section away from similar lots - couldn't even find it when I first viewed the catalog - don't feel it got the $ it should have as a result). Take it as a lesson perhaps but I think you will be OK if you just let it go and move on - life's too short. Just think what would have happened if they forgot to put a picture in the listing or suggested that in their opinion the ball was trimmed :-)

[perezfan]

Well, I bought the Ball, and it went for about exactly what I anticipated. The reason I avidly pursued it, is that I felt it bridged an important gap in the "history" of these baseballs, so to speak.

I've never seen a ball that was such a perfect "hybrid" between a Lemon Peel and an early Figure 8. It has one piece construction (like a lemon peel) and also has the "derivative" Figure 8 stitching. I really like the fact that it features both components in its construction. To me, it completes the puzzle in the evolution from a traditional Lemon Peel to the Figure 8 design.

I thought REA gave it a nice write-up, but may have understated the ball's significance. Just my opinion as the admittedly biased new owner. Regardless I felt priviledged to get it, as it has a truly unique point of difference.

[kdixon]

Glad you won the ball and I hope you enjoy it.

[perezfan]

Thanks Kenny...

Took a few tough losses last night as well, but was happy to get this piece.

I think you did right, listing it with REA. IMO, nobody can beat the exposure, prestige and reach that they provide (not to mention their favorable commission rates). Not many exemplars to compare it to, but still think you did pretty well

[1880nonsports]

on my shelf - it obviously went to a good home. The orb's construction does offer food for thought. I'm unsure how it fits in - as the evolution and morphing of the balls parameters - while to some degree mirroring the evolution of the ball in professional use - wouldn't nessesarily be borrowing from one style and the other when someone made themselves a ball to play with. I think more times than not - one used what one had available to make them. There were no rules - I imagine like today children and adults would want something functional and contemporary - something that most closely approximated what was being used. Perhaps they re-purposed Irish Al's old leather shoe and that's what they had to work with? Not disparaging the ball in any way. It is unusual for sure and would fit nicely in any higher-end collection.
Interested where one then puts such a construction when considering the "belt" or band style ball if this style is to be considered the interim step. I imagine in different areas of the country - exposure to the game and it's elements might be varied allowing for god knows what :-)
As this is but a small part of my collectible interests - I really don't spend enough time thinking about some of the related issues and carrying them to some sort of satisfactory conclusion given what's out there. That's why it's great to have a place to talk about this stuff - at least for me. Hope you will offer more thoughts as I would like to hear them.

[perezfan]

Ha... Great post!

Guess we'll never know all the answers. But I am thankful that Irish Al's old leather shoe made its way to me in such nice condition after all these years. And really hope he didn't have foot odor!

[perezfan]

.