Photo ID Opinions on neat 4-on-1 card

[rhettyeakley]

I picked up this neat 4-on-1 W-Uncat card at the National and am attempting to ID the players on the front. The following scan is roughly 1.5-2X actual size. The lower right I assume is Tris Speaker, and at first glance the top two may be Schalk and Sisler (but I may be wrong), I'm not sure at all on the lower left guy. I would love to hear other opinions, either confirming my opinion or telling me I'm an idiot (I haven't done any ear analysis yet).

Also, if anyone has the images or ones similar of these players I would love to see them. I suspect the images probably come from other W-series or E-series sets, so that may be a good place to look.

Any help or opinion is welcome.

-Rhett

Image:

[alanu]

Bottom right looks like an older Tris Speaker

speaker2.jpg

[bbcard1]

Speaker is a safe bet.

I would be inclined to agree that Sisler could be the guy on the upper right based on general facial characteristics, but the uni throws me. Doesn't look like any browns uniforms I have seen. Could it be a Braves uniform? If so, which could make sense with the Speaker era photo, you would get into a pretty thin window of time which would help you isolate the White Sox player (if it is Sisler in a Braves uniform it is probably not Schalk because of the time period) and that could certainly narrow the unknown Indians player.

[HRBAKER]

I think the top two are Schalk (L) and Wheat (R).
I think the bottom left is Steve O'Neil(l).

[Exhibitman]

Top left is Schalk for sure. Top right looks like a Brooklyn uni; perhaps Max Carey?

[Brian Van Horn]

Jeff got the IDs. Schalk, Wheat, O'Neill and Speaker

[bijoem]

Rhett....

I am wondering what leads you to believe this is a 4-on-1 card?

The hand-cut of the entire left and bottom, as well as the border going all the way to the end of the sheet on the left and bottom would make me wonder if this item is part of a bigger sheet. I can't imagine why someone would just trim off the left and bottom border / but anything is possible.

Besides the obvious (4 player images shown), is there something that leads you to believe this is a 4-on-1 card?

(cool item btw)

[bmarlowe1]

For sure Schalk - Wheat - O'Neill - Speaker

[rhettyeakley]

Joe, I am not 100% sure about the 4-on-1 thing, but that was a fairly popular setup. I seem to recall a few years ago there was an item on ebay that was essentially a "gift box" of stuff from either Leader Novelty or Universal Toy & Novelty which was simply a small pictoral box witha hodge-podge of "stuff" inside. Included in the stuff were one or two of these 4-on-1 cards featuring baseball players (and possibly boxers as well). I thought I had saved the images of the box and contents somewhere but can't seem to find them. Does anyone else remember this item when it was for sale & possibly saved images of it?
-Rhett

[cincicards]

surprise6.jpg

[HRBAKER]

Johnson, Cobb, Alexander and Bancroft

[rhettyeakley]

Randall, that is the one I was thnking of.
-Rhett

[bijoem]

Pretty cool.

Looks like there are others cut the same way.... so I would go with 4-on-1 card.

[Hal Kaplan]

Here is the cover of Randall's box ... made by Universal Toy & Novelty (makers of W504). There was an old thread (relatively recent) where someone had one of these that was a six-in-one and asked what it was, but I can't find the thread.

[Exhibitman]

The boxers are Benny Leonard (LR), Luis Firpo (LL), Pal Moran (UR; tentative) and Jack Britton (UL; tentative).

[Batter67up]

Has anyone been able to confirm if these cards/suprise boxes were sold in the 1916's-1919's or were they put out in later years?

[rhettyeakley]

My guess would be later years. From my card pictured I can narrow the date to 1916 (Speakers first year w/ Cleveland) to around 1923 (O'Neill was out of Cleveland after that.)

The actress in the box looks like Bebe Daniels, she was in her first fims in 1919, and wasn't a bonafide star until around 1921-22. Also, while I am admittedly not a boxing historian I believe Firpo was still mainly fighting in South America before 1919, he didn't gain more "world-wide" notoriety until after 1920.

-Rhett

[Batter67up]

I appreciate the input. I was trying to determine if these were made when the players were actually playing or put into these "Suprise Boxes" in later years like the 40's, 50's, and 60's. The cards are really nice looking and old looking but if we could find out a date of production that would be great!

[Batter67up]

Is there anyone that you would recommend to look at the card to determine the actual age of it? I just want to make sure that the card with players from 1919 on it wasn't printed in 1930's or later.

[Hal Kaplan]

Here's the thread I referred to above:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=92515