FBI was at National

[Snapolit1]

Dropping off subpoenas with Brent’s name on them.
Hope they had time to get a few autographs.

[Zact]

https://mobile.twitter.com/darrenrov...Ctwgr%5Eauthor

[egbeachley]

For us non-lawyers, does that mean the subpoenas went to Brent or to other dealers/AHs?

[swarmee]

One was also helping to recover altered cards at the PWCC booth, according to this post:
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1310214

[bosoxphan]

Hope they stopped by PSA as well for basically stealing money since inception

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by egbeachley

For us non-lawyers, does that mean the subpoenas went to Brent or to other dealers/AHs?

The latter.

[Snapolit1]

Joe Orlando reached for comment described the FBI guys as “Negative Nancy’s”.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Joe Orlando reached for comment described the FBI guys as “Negative Nancy’s”.

Did he ask for civil discourse?

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Joe Orlando reached for comment described the FBI guys as “Negative Nancy’s”.

No, it was "nattering nabobs of negativity." Of course, the subpoena to him was addressed to "Woodface Asshat" so the love is mutual.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

No, it was "nattering nabobs of negativity." Of course, the subpoena to him was addressed to "Woodface Asshat" so the love is mutual.

You're just bitter because you weren't invited to drink the Kool Aid and kiss the ring at the Set Registry Lunch, I bet. Wait, make that, Luncheon.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

You're just bitter because you weren't invited to drink the Kool Aid and kiss the ring at the Set Registry Lunch, I bet. Wait, make that, Luncheon.

https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...f-nscc-events/

"Agents have also been gathering information from those authentication and grading firms over the past several weeks."

Nice to see that "Mr. Never Get Cheated" is getting subpoenaed as well as Brent Mastro, the conservationist. it's a very good thing PSA is doing their own investigation. It's a regular riot over there.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...f-nscc-events/

"Agents have also been gathering information from those authentication and grading firms over the past several weeks."

Nice to see that "Mr. Never Get Cheated" is getting subpoenaed as well as Brent Mastro, the conservationist. it's a very good thing PSA is doing their own investigation. It's a regular riot over there.

OJ is still looking for the real killer too.

[Johnny630]

If the FBI is just going after PWCC we are doomed in this industry

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

If the FBI is just going after PWCC we are doomed in this industry

I sadly concur. It won't solve anything any more than putting Doug and Bill in jail solved anything. If he even goes to jail. The whole tree is f***ed up, not just that branch.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I sadly concur. It won't solve anything any more than putting Doug and Bill in jail solved anything. If he even goes to jail. The whole tree is f***ed up, not just that branch.

Peter sadly that’s exactly where I think we are headed with this……

[Rhotchkiss]

Go BODA!! Keep up the great work and pressure. Clearly it is having some effect. And us collectors are hugely indebted. You guys rock. Sincere thanks

[RedsFan1941]

speaking of mastro, all of his supporters will be happy to know that he hosted an outing at the white sox game Tuesday night, the night before the National kicked off.

[Tennis13]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

If the FBI is just going after PWCC we are doomed in this industry

Guys, the bread crumbs are easy to follow. I wrote the post about returning the card to the FBI. In addition, I was able to track down 1 of the 5 ebay guys with like literally 15 minutes of work.

If they want this to extend, the whole book is out there if you take my personal experience and multiply it by 50 people who were also scammed and presented evidence. It would take the mosaic theory and turn it into the smoking guns theory.

I for one am really curious how the guy that sold me the card shakes out. He sure was selling a lot more cards at The National than he had in years past....and his inventory is multiple 7-figures by my best guess.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Tennis13

Guys, the bread crumbs are easy to follow. I wrote the post about returning the card to the FBI. In addition, I was able to track down 1 of the 5 ebay guys with like literally 15 minutes of work.

If they want this to extend, the whole book is out there if you take my personal experience and multiply it by 50 people who were also scammed and presented evidence. It would take the mosaic theory and turn it into the smoking guns theory.

I for one am really curious how the guy that sold me the card shakes out. He sure was selling a lot more cards at The National than he had in years past....and his inventory is multiple 7-figures by my best guess.

Insiders like that are pretty secure, I would think. And remember, we should all be having fun.

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by Tennis13

Guys, the bread crumbs are easy to follow. I wrote the post about returning the card to the FBI. In addition, I was able to track down 1 of the 5 ebay guys with like literally 15 minutes of work.

If they want this to extend, the whole book is out there if you take my personal experience and multiply it by 50 people who were also scammed and presented evidence. It would take the mosaic theory and turn it into the smoking guns theory.

I for one am really curious how the guy that sold me the card shakes out. He sure was selling a lot more cards at The National than he had in years past....and his inventory is multiple 7-figures by my best guess.

Scott, you’re connecting dots that aren’t there. I’m sorry you bought a bad card, and I hope you get your money back quickly, but your issue is with Moser/PWCC, not the dealer you reference.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Go BODA!! Keep up the great work and pressure. Clearly it is having some effect. And us collectors are hugely indebted. You guys rock. Sincere thanks

agreed

[Tennis13]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

Scott, you’re connecting dots that aren’t there. I’m sorry you bought a bad card, and I hope you get your money back quickly, but your issue is with Moser/PWCC, not the dealer you reference.

As I said in my post, I am curious how things play out. The market and transaction data is opaque. I will leave it to the investigation to make my final determination....hence my curiosity. I make no claims of guilt or innocence, just a claim of interest in how the investigation goes.

Good luck to all.

[Brian Van Horn]

They're a regular attendee.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I do hope part of the investigation will include the millions of dollars of "sales" reported by PWCC but not found the ebay market research tool, which removes unpaid transactions. I think a decision has been made not to specifically identify the names of the winning bidders associated with those transactions (though it wasn't hard to figure out some), but obviously if that information matters to the investigators it will be in the records.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Brian Van Horn

They're a regular attendee.

There were 6 agents there, if I am not mistaking. I don't think they were there for coffee and donuts either.

[GeoPoto]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I do hope part of the investigation will include the millions of dollars of "sales" reported by PWCC but not found the ebay market research tool, which removes unpaid transactions.

If you buy from PWCC next week and take advantage of one of their options, Pay by Check, for example, eBay continues to treat the item as though it is unpaid, presumably because eBay can only "see" transactions funded through eBay/Paypal. It may be the case that eBay eventually "removes those as unpaid". Why couldn't this or a similar scenario explain the "unseemly phenomena" that you are pointing at?

[Jay Wolt]

Originally Posted by GeoPoto

If you buy from PWCC next week and take advantage of one of their options, Pay by Check, for example, eBay continues to treat the item as though it is unpaid, presumably because eBay can only "see" transactions funded through eBay/Paypal. It may be the case that eBay eventually "removes those as unpaid". Why couldn't this or a similar scenario explain the "unseemly phenomena" that you are pointing at?

George, if the seller gets paid by check, he clicks the "paid" button which advises ebay that the lot is paid for.
If not the buyer will get repeated emails from ebay to pay for the lot.

[chalupacollects]

Originally Posted by Brian Van Horn

They're a regular attendee.

So much so now that they don't have to pay and get rewards points...

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Jay Wolt

George, if the seller gets paid by check, he clicks the "paid" button which advises ebay that the lot is paid for.
If not the buyer will get repeated emails from ebay to pay for the lot.

And I would assume that unless these sales were actually cancelled by Brent, the "buyers" would have received strikes and since many of them did this many times eventually been banned?

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by GeoPoto

If you buy from PWCC next week and take advantage of one of their options, Pay by Check, for example, eBay continues to treat the item as though it is unpaid, presumably because eBay can only "see" transactions funded through eBay/Paypal. It may be the case that eBay eventually "removes those as unpaid". Why couldn't this or a similar scenario explain the "unseemly phenomena" that you are pointing at?

This. Nice post, George.

Hopefully the real investigators can ascertain those who happen to pay by check, wire, credit, consignments, etc., or any other means that might explain the "data" so that amateurs like Scott don't have to make harmful insinuations.

[aconte]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

This. Nice post, George.

Hopefully the real investigators can ascertain those who happen to pay by check, wire, credit, consignments, etc., or any other means that might explain the "data" so that amateurs like Scott don't have to make harmful insinuations.

Thank goodness for the so called amateurs. Without them doing the good work
on blow out it would be the same old same old. I'm sure some of these transactions
can be explained, but 7 million? At least now with all the work done by the
amateurs, the pros can head in the right direction. Something seems off
to me especially after seeing the list of unpaid high dollar cards with the
same id. Could it be wire payments? Possibly. But now the pros can do some
easy digging. Add it to the pile of poop to go through.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by aconte

Thank goodness for the so called amateurs. Without them doing the good work
on blow out it would be the same on same old. I'm sure some of these transactions
can be explained, but 7 million? At least now with all the work done by the
amateurs, the pros can head in the right direction. Something seems off
to me especially after seeing the list of unpaid high dollar cards with the
same id. Could it be wire payments? Possibly. But now the pros can do some
easy digging. Add it to the pile of poop to go through.

I don't like coincidences. To me it's awfully coincidental that so many of the transactions identified as being unpaid by the tool on PWCC's own website are the very same ones I and others were expressing disbelief at in 2016. And it's awfully coincidental that some of the individuals who were the high bidders on these cards are the same ones who, by Brent's admission (if only privately), were the ones "pushing" the market to use his term.

I also don't understand why, even with a different form of payment, Brent would not have marked the transactions as paid, if in fact they were. It cannot be the case that ebay reports every transaction as unpaid (and presumably collects no fees) every time a buyer pays other than by PAYPAL.

All that said, of course ultimately it's up to the FBI to figure this out definitively, if it's part of what they are investigating.

[Tim Zwick]

Originally Posted by GeoPoto View Post
If you buy from PWCC next week and take advantage of one of their options, Pay by Check, for example, eBay continues to treat the item as though it is unpaid, presumably because eBay can only "see" transactions funded through eBay/Paypal. It may be the case that eBay eventually "removes those as unpaid". Why couldn't this or a similar scenario explain the "unseemly phenomena" that you are pointing at?

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

This. Nice post, George.

Hopefully the real investigators can ascertain those who happen to pay by check, wire, credit, consignments, etc., or any other means that might explain the "data" so that amateurs like Scott don't have to make harmful insinuations.

Let's also all hope then that these "real investigators" you speak of can explain the data to us amateurs of how by not claiming millions of dollars of completed sales in itself would not be considered a fraudulent offense by depriving eBay of the final value fees they are due on each and every one of those sales. Fraud is still fraud, no matter who you commit it against.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I don't like coincidences. To me it's awfully coincidental that so many of the transactions identified as being unpaid by the tool on PWCC's own website are the very same ones I and others were expressing disbelief at in 2016. And it's awfully coincidental that some of the individuals who were the high bidders on these cards are the same ones who, by Brent's admission (if only privately), were the ones "pushing" the market to use his term.

I also don't understand why, even with a different form of payment, Brent would not have marked the transactions as paid, if in fact they were. It cannot be the case that ebay reports every transaction as unpaid (and presumably collects no fees) every time a buyer pays other than by PAYPAL.

All that said, of course ultimately it's up to the FBI to figure this out definitively, if it's part of what they are investigating.

Also people are consigning to PWCC due to their sales history.....

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by aconte

Thank goodness for the so called amateurs. Without them doing the good work
on blow out it would be the same old same old. I'm sure some of these transactions
can be explained, but 7 million? At least now with all the work done by the
amateurs, the pros can head in the right direction. Something seems off
to me especially after seeing the list of unpaid high dollar cards with the
same id. Could it be wire payments? Possibly. But now the pros can do some
easy digging. Add it to the pile of poop to go through.

Tony: the amateurs on BODA are providing clear-cut evidence. Incredible work. Scott, the amateur, is leaning into conjecture and arriving at unsupported insinuations. Big difference.

And for the record, I'm not trying to explain away the whole lot of unpaid transactions. I'm just providing an alternative explanation for one of those buyers with a small percentage of those transactions.

Like Peter, I hope the FBI turns over every stone and publishes (a la Mastro-list) the complete rundown of illegal activity in this hobby. But until that happens, I'll personally refrain from positing unsubstantiated claims and I would hope other smart people would take a similar approach.

[Copa7]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Go BODA!! Keep up the great work and pressure. Clearly it is having some effect. And us collectors are hugely indebted. You guys rock. Sincere thanks

Absolutely grateful for the vigilance of these collectors. What a difference it was visiting PSA over near the toilets (how appropriate) with their snarky and lying faces. Then going over to the competition, who bent over backwards to accommodate my questions and actually guarantee my cards would be ready by Sunday (they were ready Saturday).

PSA insisted they would mail them if they weren't ready - which I insisted I did not want, this is why I am bringing them all the way in person. PSA demanded I know what my cards would grade and exactly what value. How the hell should I know? That is why graders are paid, right? They kept telling me it will be upcharged. Well, never, ever again until I see jail time for Someone at PSA.

BTW - anyone want to buy my PSA cards? Lol. They have great resale value, I'm told.

[BigBeerGut]

WOW so stoked to see some Justice coming down the pike!
MD

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

This. Nice post, George.

Hopefully the real investigators can ascertain those who happen to pay by check, wire, credit, consignments, etc., or any other means that might explain the "data" so that amateurs like Scott don't have to make harmful insinuations.

Paying like that is all good but even IF PWCC got paid for in that way eBay did not get paid. At least they are/were screwing everyone.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

Tony: the amateurs on BODA are providing clear-cut evidence. Incredible work. Scott, the amateur, is leaning into conjecture and arriving at unsupported insinuations. Big difference.

And for the record, I'm not trying to explain away the whole lot of unpaid transactions. I'm just providing an alternative explanation for one of those buyers with a small percentage of those transactions.

Like Peter, I hope the FBI turns over every stone and publishes (a la Mastro-list) the complete rundown of illegal activity in this hobby. But until that happens, I'll personally refrain from positing unsubstantiated claims and I would hope other smart people would take a similar approach.

That's redicciciciculous, I want opinions here, not facts. Opinions from like mind individuals have a way of trickling down to facts. Coincidences are evidence, right?

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by Copa7

Absolutely grateful for the vigilance of these collectors. What a difference it was visiting PSA over near the toilets (how appropriate) with their snarky and lying faces. Then going over to the competition, who bent over backwards to accommodate my questions and actually guarantee my cards would be ready by Sunday (they were ready Saturday).

PSA insisted they would mail them if they weren't ready - which I insisted I did not want, this is why I am bringing them all the way in person. PSA demanded I know what my cards would grade and exactly what value. How the hell should I know? That is why graders are paid, right? They kept telling me it will be upcharged. Well, never, ever again until I see jail time for Someone at PSA.

BTW - anyone want to buy my PSA cards? Lol. They have great resale value, I'm told.

I'm not selling mine. I'm just storing them & keeping all the fakes off the market.

I'll just crack my entire collection that is in the GAI plastic slabs...I mean PSA. until the next fad comes around. These cards get cracked out so many times anyway they have overdosed on crack.

[Copa7]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

I'm not selling mine. I'm just storing them & keeping all the fakes off the market.

I'll just crack my entire collection that is in the GAI plastic slabs...I mean PSA. until the next fad comes around. These cards get cracked out so many times anyway they have overdosed on crack.

They can't be fakes, they're PSA, right? Hahaha. Just asking those die hard PSA supporters to Pony up and buy these better than any other TPG valued cards. (no takers?)

[drcy]

I have no faith in PSA.

They have all the problems and Joe Orlando basically said they can't do anything about it, won't honor their guarantees and the people exposing the fraud are just a bunch of complainers. Addressing the issues didn't even appear to be a concern of his. Their wish. as has it always been, is to hole it blows over rather than address authentication/authentication issues.

I've long known, and been told, that many high grade cards in PSA holders have been altered. Bill Mastro said this directly years back, and Doug Allen implied this. And it's finally come home to roost.

The fact that the very first card is altered, and may have been known to be altered by the graders, and they have not yet directly addressed that, says it all. Based on that card, a question is if their very business model was based on knowingly falsely grading a card?

[defender100]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

No, it was "nattering nabobs of negativity." Of course, the subpoena to him was addressed to "Woodface Asshat" so the love is mutual.

LOL! Stop it man you're killing me!!

[Batpig]

Uh, if you think this is limited to PSA, you haven’t been paying attention. SGC has actually had some of the highest profile cards in this scandal slip by, and Beckett is probably worst of the 3 as far as pure corruption (see black labels). They’re all part of the problem.

[CMIZ5290]

Originally Posted by Batpig

Uh, if you think this is limited to PSA, you haven’t been paying attention. SGC has actually had some of the highest profile cards in this scandal slip by, and Beckett is probably worst of the 3 as far as pure corruption (see black labels). They’re all part of the problem.

+1, exactly right....

[Johnny630]

Would be very interested to see who's invoices the outed PWCC Cards were submitted by to Newport Beach. Hope the FBI Dropped a Duces Tecum requesting the invoices/submission forms.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

I think when the investigation is over the Freedom of Information act might become my new best friend.