I am calling you out Jason Berry (Kehfee)

A few days ago Jason Barry (Kefhee) made a post on the B/S/T for a large group of T205's. Being a collector of these and knowing they don't last long around here because of some other competitors I gave him my # and we talked and agreed to hold all remaining grade 4's and higher. After emails and stuff I reached a price from VCP for full market on the 25 cards in the amount of $1309. Not below, which a group this large normally has a little lag, but full market. He says he will not sell for less than $1410 because this is what T205.org has them priced for.

So I said okay I will take 10 cards for $500 and gave him the list of cards. Here is the actuall word for word email:[/SIZE]


SO WTF IS MY MONEY NOT GOOD? THEY ARE SGC GRADED AS 4'S. HOW WOULD I NOT BE HAPPY WITH A SLABBED CARD???? YOU AGREED ON A PRICE, I PAID FOR MY CARDS, YOU MAILED THEM AND GAVE ME A TRACKING # (CX256789182CA), AND NOW DON'T WANT TO COMPLETE THE TRANSACTION AFTER IT WAS DONE!!!! THIS IS NOT BETWEEN LEON AND EVERONE ELSE. BUT I AM CALLING YOU OUT ON THE BOARD AND YOUR INTEGRITY AS A COLLECTOR AND SELLER.

So be it if this is my demise to the board but I am fuming that you would back slide on a deal. Didn't take back other cards from the other buyers? So you sold me cards and mailed them and now taking them back because YOU ARE GOING TO SELL THEM TO SOMEONE ELSE FOR ANOTHER $20-$40.[/SIZE]

EMAILS REMOVED BY MODERATOR



I want to know from the board if I have this right to be upset?????[/SIZE][/SIZE]

[oldjudge]

Could you possibly use some larger type?

[slantycouch]

It seems you have the right to be upset.

I don't know what protocol is for posting this type of message here is, however. This board may need some sort of feedback system.

A kind suggestion: I would drop the font size on your post. The larger font will just serve to annoy people rather than help them understand your frustration.

[JasonL]

Sorry to hear about this.
I recall a playground rule that went something like this:
"No takebacks"

[smtjoy]

I feel for you but don't really think its enough to be upset about. Heck my guess is the cards are not even in the mail and never were. I have never heard of stopping a USPS shipment once it has gone out.

To me a deal is never complete until the cards are in hand and buyer is happy with them, that goes for BST, ebay, and and other deals. How many times have we had someone come on the boards and brag about a card they got on ebay for a steal and only had the seller cancel the deal when they found out, wait till the cards are in hand always. Now if you get the cards and then they want them back that is a completely different matter.

[zork1974]

This shouldn't be on the board. The gentlemanly way to work this out is to inform a moderator or to get your money back and move on. Posting personal info is a bit out of line.

Oh, and as NET54 says on the header, "Caveat Emptor".

[Matt]

Originally Posted by zork1974

This shouldn't be on the board. The gentlemanly way to work this out is to inform a moderator or to get your money back and move on. Posting personal info is a bit out of line.

Oh, and as NET54 says on the header, "Caveat Emptor".

That's not really the idea; I don't know the facts in this particular case, but hypothetically, in a scenario where someone mis-behaved on the BST, it would help all of us Emptor if we knew about it.

[slantycouch]

Would a defined feedback system be a good idea?

[Ladder7]

Yea, this is a childish transaction, luckily, it didn't end worse for you. If this is true, it's sad he sold out his rep for such a meager sum. Of course, Jason needs to be heard.

JERRY: Well, it's too late. I gave it to Elaine, and she's already on her way to
give it to George's father.

WINONA: Jerry, I really need it back. It, it is mine.

JERRY: You can't give something and then take it back. I mean, what are you...
(catches himself)

WINONA: What?

JERRY: A uh, a person that uh...

WINONA: A person that what?

JERRY: Well, a person that gives something and then they're dissatisfied and
they wish they had, had never uh...

WINONA: And?

JERRY: ...give, given it to the person that they originally gave it to.

WINONA: You mean like, an Indian giver?!

JERRY: I'm sorry, I'm not familiar with that term.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by slantycouch

Would a defined feedback system be a good idea?

An open feedback system where anyone could post feedback about anyone else probably wouldn't last a week before it turned into a wrestling match.

We've discussed the possibility of a "trader points" system before but it would add quite a bit of complexity to the software we don't want to deal with right now.

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by smtjoy

I feel for you but don't really think its enough to be upset about. Heck my guess is the cards are not even in the mail and never were. I have never heard of stopping a USPS shipment once it has gone out.

To me a deal is never complete until the cards are in hand and buyer is happy with them, that goes for BST, ebay, and and other deals. How many times have we had someone come on the boards and brag about a card they got on ebay for a steal and only had the seller cancel the deal when they found out, wait till the cards are in hand always. Now if you get the cards and then they want them back that is a completely different matter.

The seller might have only printed the USPS label through PayPal, which would generate a tracking number before the package was actually shipped.

[slantycouch]

Originally Posted by Matt

An open feedback system where anyone could post feedback about anyone else probably wouldn't last a week before it turned into a wrestling match.

We've discussed the possibility of a "trader points" system before but it would add quite a bit of complexity to the software we don't want to deal with right now.

You may be right.

I don't like the iTrader system, but that's just personal preference. Plus, as you noted, it would be more work for Leon and crew.

I've been on a couple forums where there is a "feedback" area. One of the best I've seen was a system where each user started a thread with his/her name, and as transactions were completed between members, each left feedback for the other person in their respective feedback thread.

There are/were a couple shouting matches here and there, but overall it serves as a good place to review "history" before completing a BST with another user.

[Anthony S.]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u05Qot_yh9c

[Reginald Marsh]

I disagree with Zork. He stated "This shouldn't be on the board. The gentlemanly way to work this out is to inform a moderator or to get your money back and move on. Posting personal info is a bit out of line."

Things like this should be posted so no one else deals with the guy. No disrespect to Andrew but 500 dollars should not get him fuming or upset,
really he should just black ball this dude and never do business with him again.

I have dealt personally with Andrew and he is right on the money when it comes to paying for cards and shipping cards. My gut feeling is the other dude is your typical bullshit wishy washy guy who always finds a way to screw something up with excuses.

My question is why would this guy accept payment and agree to shipping to then change his mind and feel Andrew would not be satisfied? What is wrong with this scenario is the time lost on Andrew's side dealing with the deal.

[slidekellyslide]

How does one retrieve a package from the USPS? Especially 8+ days after it was supposedly sent out?

[slantycouch]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

How does one retrieve a package from the USPS? Especially 8+ days after it was supposedly sent out?

You just "have the post office return the package" magically! You didn't know that?

[smtjoy]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

How does one retrieve a package from the USPS? Especially 8+ days after it was supposedly sent out?

As I said above, I bet the package never went out or as stated above they only printed out the postal form but never mailed it. I bet they had someone else interested and were trying to get more money, they might have said I have it sold at $500 but if you want to offer more let me know but it goes in the mail in 5 days. Then if they sold it to the second party they could file a refund on the USPS label and get that money back or just eat it $5 because they made $75 more on the deal.

[daviddbreadman]

Obviously he never sent out the cards in the first place. He probably had second thoughts right from the beginning and probably didn't really want to sell the cards for the price, for whatever reason. We get attached to cards and can find it tough to sell them sometimes. Its not like selling junk from the garage.

I am probably in the minority here but I don't see it as the end of the world. I am sure if I were in your position I'd be pissed off also but sometimes things just don't work out. In fact, given what he did it seems he did his best to back out as politely as he could given the circumstances and hope you reacted ok.

I don't agree with him backing out of the transaction but shit happens. Without a pattern developing I don't think its right to destroy his future at the board for a mistake either even if it probably wasn't the smartest thing to do. Its not like he stole from you. From what I understand he is refunding your money. Worse things happen on here!

Just my opinion.

Now if it turns out he sell them to someone else here on the board for a few more bucks, all bets are off.

[bcornell]

People who renege on deals shouldn't sell stuff, ever.

But posting personal emails also merits a tsk tsk.


Bill

[JamesGallo]

I didn't see the original post so I can't comment on it, but someone backing out a $500 deal in this way just sucks and I think it should be outed. How long has this guy sat with Andrews $500. I am sure the cards were never shipped as you can not have a package pulled unless it was sent UPS (you apprently can with them in certain situations).

I don't care if it is a $50, $500 or $5000 deal when someone pulls the rug out from under you, you have a right to be pissed. I for one would want to know who it was so I do not deal with him in the future.

James G

[Matt E.]

I will be in the minority with my comments.

Let's give Jason some time to respond to your comments. I am on the hook for $600 of T205's forthcoming from him.

My son and I have had numerous deals with him and expect this deal to be a positive one as well. If the guy backs out then he needs to defend himself on that. If the cards don't arrive then that is another matter.

You need to relax just a bit on this VCP stuff and the fair market value. The T205 cards are in a bit of a boom market. Why is it when I have a T205 listed on Ebay with a "best offer" your offer is ridiculously low?



Matt Engle
Ebay ID: babybingbaseball

[Anthony S.]

Originally Posted by JamesGallo

I didn't see the original post so I can't comment on it....

James G

The original post was the same, the letters were just bigger. It built to a font crescendo.

[judsonhamlin]

There is a lot of drama over these T205's which were posted (I think) on Saturday on the BST. I have a 200. m/o in route to Canada in this, and my communications with Jason were agreeable. I believe we should take a breath and wait for Mr. Berry to reply and get his side of all of this. No one is out money at this point.

[rhettyeakley]

I have had several transactions with Jason in the past and they all went very well. As stated above, he is in Canada, so I don't know if that has anything to do with his ability to retrieve the package after it was sent. It seems wierd that he has transactions with several other people on this board but only sent this message to you. As nobody else has recieved this meassage from Jason it seems like he may just not want to deal with you (for whatever reason), I am obviously not privy to any other emails sent from you to him or him to you, but that is what it seems like from an outside perspective.
-Rhett

[Exhibitman]

Oh, wait, that's Bartertown rules.

What's posted here is definitely something I'd want to know about as a collector, and I don't have a problem with the topic. The personal contact info (email) should be taken out, but I don't have a problem with the exact words being quoted.

All we have in the BST is our personal integrity, as no one is going to play daddy and enforce a deal. IMO, if you made the deal and paid for the items and the cards were not somehow lost, stolen (happened to me once, right out of the office mailbox) or damaged, the seller is wrong to simply call it off.

[Kehfee]

Hello I am the fellow that has been called out on this thread and I will attempt to tell my side of the story without turning this thread into a flame fest.

I spoke on the phone with Andrew regarding some T205's and he gave me a list of ones he wanted and told me to give my best price.

The price I gave him was not T205.org if you look at my bst thread my "guideline" price is actually T205.org. I keep records of every T205 I've bought and what I paid and I used that as my asking price. (I'm not losing or making money)

Andrew did not agree with the price. He uses VCP which is fine and came up with a different price using that. I opted to not sell at that price as I didn't want to take that loss. I have no qualms with his value assessment of mine or his cards.

He decided to get less cards and chose the ones he wanted and offered me a price. Which I agreed to and he paid me on Aug 10th.

I hoped to ship them that day but ended up shipping them Aug 11th. Andrew asked for and received the tracking number.

Now I'm Canadian. I live in Western Canada which is a long way from from many of the east coast and southern collectors. Canada Post is rather lackadaisical regarding their shipping. I sent it Priority Express which cost me 18.62 and they told me 9 days.

I let Andrew know that and got a short reply that gave me a sinking feeling and reminded me of a terrible transaction I had on the N54 hockey board (which was completed). Now that past transaction is not Andrew's fault or concern, but there were plenty similarities.

Customs can be awful and can hold up packages with little to no reason for long periods of time. Based on my interactions regarding this sale I made the call that it wasn't worth doing anymore. I refunded his money and accept the fallout I will receive because of it. I will say that I did not cancel this transaction because I received a better offer from anyone or any other reason then I have stated. The reason I was able to get the package back was that I went to the post depot and they hadn't picked up the package. I am well known amongst the staff and they returned the package to me.

I will happily tell my complete side of the story to the moderators (The stuff that doesn't concern the community) If my actions warrant a ban or removal of BST privileges then I will accept that.

To those that purchased cards from me. They have been delivered and I will endeavour to do my best to insure they are a pleasant transaction. I have not had one of my packages fail to arrive. (Though sometimes they're slooow) and I will refund anyone who doesn't receive something from me. I'm not out to rip any one off or "pull one over" on the N54 community. I apologize to Andrew and understand his anger over this. However, I will stand by my refund.

Jason

[daviddbreadman]

Always better to hear both sides.

[judsonhamlin]

Good thing the Postal Moose was late

I am good with Jason's answer. Let's all move on- nothing to see here.

Originally Posted by Kehfee

Hello I am the fellow that has been called out on this thread and I will attempt to tell my side of the story without turning this thread into a flame fest.

I spoke on the phone with Andrew regarding some T205's and he gave me a list of ones he wanted and told me to give my best price.

The price I gave him was not T205.org if you look at my bst thread my "guideline" price is actually T205.org. I keep records of every T205 I've bought and what I paid and I used that as my asking price. (I'm not losing or making money)

Andrew did not agree with the price. He uses VCP which is fine and came up with a different price using that. I opted to not sell at that price as I didn't want to take that loss. I have no qualms with his value assessment of mine or his cards.

He decided to get less cards and chose the ones he wanted and offered me a price. Which I agreed to and he paid me on Aug 10th.

I hoped to ship them that day but ended up shipping them Aug 11th. Andrew asked for and received the tracking number.

Now I'm Canadian. I live in Western Canada which is a long way from from many of the east coast and southern collectors. Canada Post is rather lackadaisical regarding their shipping. I sent it Priority Express which cost me 18.62 and they told me 9 days.

I let Andrew know that and got a short reply that gave me a sinking feeling and reminded me of a terrible transaction I had on the N54 hockey board (which was completed). Now that past transaction is not Andrew's fault or concern, but there were plenty similarities.

Customs can be awful and can hold up packages with little to no reason for long periods of time. Based on my interactions regarding this sale I made the call that it wasn't worth doing anymore. I refunded his money and accept the fallout I will receive because of it. I will say that I did not cancel this transaction because I received a better offer from anyone or any other reason then I have stated. The reason I was able to get the package back was that I went to the post depot and they hadn't picked up the package. I am well known amongst the staff and they returned the package to me.

I will happily tell my complete side of the story to the moderators (The stuff that doesn't concern the community) If my actions warrant a ban or removal of BST privileges then I will accept that.

To those that purchased cards from me. They have been delivered and I will endeavour to do my best to insure they are a pleasant transaction. I have not had one of my packages fail to arrive. (Though sometimes they're slooow) and I will refund anyone who doesn't receive something from me. I'm not out to rip any one off or "pull one over" on the N54 community. I apologize to Andrew and understand his anger over this. However, I will stand by my refund.

Jason

Here is the email I sent back to him

do you have tracking for the cards???? Just wondering and seeing if you
>>>>> mailed yet
>>>>>
>>>>> Andrew

HIS RESPONSE

Hello. Yes I mailed it. The post office said 9-10 days approx.
>>>>
>>>> canadapost.ca
>>>>
>>>> CX256789182CA
>>>>
>>>> Thanks

MY response

>>> I thought you said on our phone conversation that you were going to
>>> express
>>> mail them. I was not expecting them to take 9-10 days and sent the
>>> cheapest.
>>>
>>> Andrew


HIM

I paid 18.50 to send them. It's an international shipment so customs
>> gets involved. That sort of stuff is out of my hands. My apologies.

and ME again

That is fine, I just wanted more clarification on it.
> Thanks,
> Andrew

Then I got the big write up and piss off letter. I have no problem calling you out on this. I just wanted to know where my cards were and when to expect them. I am not the other guy JASON!!!! So why do I get the fist when it is not my issue???????? Oh yeah who got the cards then??????

[Kawika]

Uh-oh.

[judsonhamlin]

300px-Train_wreck_at_Montparnasse_1895.jpg

[toppcat]

ouch!

[Michael Peich]

In Jason's defense, I bought some cards from him a few months ago and he told me up front that due to Canadian mail, his remote location, and Canadian customs that it could take eight-ten days from the mailing date before I would receive the cards. I appreciated his honest caveat, and true to form, ten days after he mailed them, they arrived. IMHO he is a collector who stands by his word, and I don't think he is trying to mislead any of us.

Mike

[docpatlv]

Jason,

If you don't mind me asking, what concerned you about the transaction that caused you to cancel the deal? You stated you had already been paid, decided to ship the cards, then changed your mind and were able to retrieve them.

Were you concerned that the buyer might pull something shady? It seems that there's more information that was probably involved with e-mail communications that we're not privy to that caused you to change your mind.

I don't know the buyer or the seller, but I have to admit that I'd probably be upset if this had happened to me, just not to the degree that I'd lose any sleep over it.

Mike

[judsonhamlin]

mettrainwra.jpg

[Jacklitsch]

MY response

>>> I thought you said on our phone conversation that you were going to
>>> express
>>> mail them. I was not expecting them to take 9-10 days and sent the
>>> cheapest.
>>>
>>> Andrew"

Sometimes you just get a feeling that this isn't really worth the trouble.

[Anthony S.]

I agree with Steve.

[Reginald Marsh]

I will just state that i sold Andrew some T-205's one of which was Eddie Phelps and he paid top dollar for that card and a few others. He does not strike me to be a low ball try and steal cards for nothing type of a guy.

No disrepect to Jason but never for any reason would i strike a deal and then back out because of shipping. Something is a little off there in my opinion and comparing this T205 deal to a prior hockey deal is at best a weak excuse. If mistakes have been made in the past then it is probably wise to figure out how not to have it happen again.

[Adam]

"I am calling you out" just sounds so childish.

[Jim VB]

What this is beginning to look like.

[Anthony S.]

Ah, "Farm Space." Good movie.

[Reginald Marsh]

My guess Andrew is a younger member than alot of us so perhaps the way he went about handling this was a little immature but one thing is for certain if the individual would have held up his end of the bargain all of this would have been avoided.

Also i might add with the overwhelming amount of sappiness on this board it is refreshing to see someone actually stand up for themselves in a deal gone bad. In no way shape or form should the guy have ever pulled out of the deal once the money was sent. Bad move.

As a matter of fact what he should do is now ship the cards overnight to Andrew and reconcile the deal. My guess is he already has sold the cards to another individual.

[Peter_Spaeth]

wrong thread

It's done. I do not want him banned but just wanted to make it known to the board what had happened. I was excited to be adding these cards to my registry and got the boot instead. Yes I am new to the board but I believe in the upmost honest and integrity regardless. I have people who say he is good and I am sure he is just from speaking to him, I also have people who say I am and I am. Fact of the matter is I was heart set on this group and for what ever reason gut feeling or not I now don't get them and have to continue searching. It is hard to find a lot of mid grades. I wish him the best and to whom gets the cards. Best wishes Jason.

[Potomac Yank]

Damn Registry .....

Causes more trouble at the O. K. Corral.

It's called Pupism .....

[carrigansghost]

Received my cards and could not be more pleased. I will continue to do business with him (Jason) without hesitation.

Rawn

[Bamacollection]

While this thread was in full stride, Jason and I struck a rather large deal for a trade (Thursday). I am happy to report the tracking number he supplied has shown up in the Canada Postal Service and I am more excited than I can explain! This is the biggest trade I have ever made and I think we are mutually going to benifit from it. My decision to do the deal was solely based on the positive remarks by some of the more prominent members on this thread. I will update as I can!

[carrigansghost]

Glad it worked for you, Bama.

Rawn

[Mrc32]

I completed both a trade and a purchase with Jason in the last 2 weeks. Both packages arrived from Canada and I have enjoyed the email discussions with him.

It is a shame this thread even exists.

[Matt E.]

Cards are extremely colorful and better than the given grade.
Other than it takes a little longer for the mail to reach the US, this was another great transaction.

I am calling you out to say thanks!




Matt Engle