Letter to george and other "haters"--ali (cont.)

[forazzurri2axz]

Thank you to several of you who so eloquently responded to George and a few of the haters regarding Ali. I would like to skip over his boxing feats as well as the issue of refusing to go in the military to kill innocent non-white people and instead ask George and the other "haters" the following....Please take the multiple choice test below, representing a FRACTION of what he accomplished
*** Ali did the following ..which have you done???????????? ( if you did something even close , you can count it!!)

a) Gone to Lebanon in 1985 and secured the release of 4 American hostages
b) Go to Iraq in 1990 and secure release of 15 American hostages
c) Raise over $120 million for Barrow Neurological Inst (Phoenix,Az)
d) Go to NUMEROUS Children's hospitals (too numerous to list)
e) Go to soup kitchens to help!
f) Save a person on a window ledge about to commit suicide
g) Brought 5 TONS of food , clothing and medicne to help Catholic nun's rescue efforts for Liberian refugees
h) Supported Make-A wish foundation, Jeff Gordon Children's Foundation, Special Olympics, Beat Bullying, Buoniconti Fund for Paralysis, UNICEF, and dozens and dozens of others
i) Honored by Amnesty Int'l, UN Messenger of Peace, Presidential Medal of Freedom ( among dozens of others!)
j) After beating Foreman in Zaire, sits on porch stoop with children doing magic tricks for them
k)HAND DELIVERED food and medical supplies to many many countries around the world!
l) spontaneously gets on a bus carrying disabled children in '92 to sign autographs and make them laugh
m) ALL OF THE ABOVE
n) NONE OF THE ABOVE (hint--this is the correct answer for most of us, incl George)

Ali--you were my hero, the greatest of ALL TIME!

[Leon]

Everyone has a right to their opinion. All that this board asks is that you have a name next to it, so thanks Bill Lat.zko for the thought provoking post.

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by forazzurri2axz

refusing to go in the military to kill innocent non-white people

Just wanted to save that for posterity in case he edits his post and deletes that part.

[Stonepony]

Arguably one of the the most recognized/ known people to ever walk the face of the Earth. My score on the above questionnaire- 0

[Snapolit1]

Great man indeed. Not perfect but none of us are. Did more for other people than 100s of others put together would do in 10 lifetimes.

[packs]

For all the good he did he should have saved some of it for Joe Frazier. Ali was a great fighter and later a humanitarian but I never understood why Joe Frazier wasn't the beneficiary of any of it.

[forazzurri2axz]

"Just wanted to save that for posterity in case he edits his post and deletes that part."

I wouldn't edit anything I said except to add lots of things Ali did in one lifetime that you couldn't do in 5! I'll repeat it.." killing of innocent non-white people" .At a moment like this, when Ali's courage is talked about by most of the media, I would be unable to live with myself if I backed down from something I believe in and said!


oops I thought my initial comment didn't post so I sorta repeated it again...sorry (for the repetition, not the comment!)

[forazzurri2axz]

Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman

Just wanted to save that for posterity in case he edits his post and deletes that part.

not editing my post, wouldn't delete that for a second, ESPECIALLY after the bravest most principled man on earth (and my hero) just died. You must be jokin'!
The only way I'll edit my post is to add to the list many more things that Ali did for humanity that you couldn't come close to in 5 lifetimes!

[btcarfagno]

Originally Posted by forazzurri2axz

not editing my post, wouldn't delete that for a second, ESPECIALLY after the bravest most principled man on earth (and my hero) just died. You must be jokin'!
The only way I'll edit my post is to add to the list many more things that Ali did for humanity that you couldn't come close to in 5 lifetimes!

He did treat Joe Frazier like shit for no reason other than to hype a fight, subjecting Frazier's family and children to death threats. Never did apologize to Frazier in person either. I always thought, personally, that this meant that deep down he may have actually believed the awful things that he said.

I am an Ali fan, so no disrespect meant. But the way that he treated Frazier has always given me some pause about Ali the person.

Tom C

[forazzurri2axz]

Originally Posted by btcarfagno

He did treat Joe Frazier like shit for no reason other than to hype a fight, subjecting Frazier's family and children to death threats. Never did apologize to Frazier in person either. I always thought, personally, that this meant that deep down he may have actually believed the awful things that he said.

I am an Ali fan, so no disrespect meant. But the way that he treated Frazier has always given me some pause about Ali the person.

Tom C

Hi Tom--here's when they made up and ali apologized...........
The wound to Frazier's psyche was deep. In the ensuing years, as Parkinson's syndrome limited Ali's speech and mobility, he has evolved into an almost saintly, ethereal force, the controversies of his past forgotten as his fame expanded and he raised millions of dollars for charity. But Frazier has searched for wider renown and struggled to shed his bitterness.

Last week on the anniversary of his victory over Ali at Madison Square Garden, Frazier said, "Hey, man, just come on and give me a hug and let's get on with our lives."

During an interview in a Midtown Manhattan hotel suite Wednesday, Ali said, "In a way, Joe's right. I said a lot of things in the heat of the moment that I shouldn't have said. Called him names I shouldn't have called him. I apologize for that. I'm sorry. It was all meant to promote the fight.

"I like Joe Frazier," Ali said. "Me and him was a good show. It was a good traveling show."

Frazier embraced the apology.

"I accept that," he said in a telephone interview from Wildwood, N.J. "I'll accept it, shake his hand and hug him when I see him. We're grown guys. Why we been biting off bullets? We have to embrace each other. It's time to talk and get together. Life's too short."

[btcarfagno]

Originally Posted by forazzurri2axz

Hi Tom--here's when they made up and ali apologized...........
The wound to Frazier's psyche was deep. In the ensuing years, as Parkinson's syndrome limited Ali's speech and mobility, he has evolved into an almost saintly, ethereal force, the controversies of his past forgotten as his fame expanded and he raised millions of dollars for charity. But Frazier has searched for wider renown and struggled to shed his bitterness.

Last week on the anniversary of his victory over Ali at Madison Square Garden, Frazier said, "Hey, man, just come on and give me a hug and let's get on with our lives."

During an interview in a Midtown Manhattan hotel suite Wednesday, Ali said, "In a way, Joe's right. I said a lot of things in the heat of the moment that I shouldn't have said. Called him names I shouldn't have called him. I apologize for that. I'm sorry. It was all meant to promote the fight.

"I like Joe Frazier," Ali said. "Me and him was a good show. It was a good traveling show."

Frazier embraced the apology.

"I accept that," he said in a telephone interview from Wildwood, N.J. "I'll accept it, shake his hand and hug him when I see him. We're grown guys. Why we been biting off bullets? We have to embrace each other. It's time to talk and get together. Life's too short."

Frazier said after all of this that Ali only apologized through a reporter and not to him personally.

Tom C

[George]

It is surprising to note the torrent of vitriol that has been unleashed, particularly from Mr. forazzurri2axz, who gratuitously described me as a "hater" for my temerity in failing to worship the memory of Muhammad Ali. How dare someone deviate from the politically correct party line, and allude to the fact that the great Ali was convicted of draft evasion!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by btcarfagno

He did treat Joe Frazier like shit for no reason other than to hype a fight, subjecting Frazier's family and children to death threats. Never did apologize to Frazier in person either. I always thought, personally, that this meant that deep down he may have actually believed the awful things that he said.

I am an Ali fan, so no disrespect meant. But the way that he treated Frazier has always given me some pause about Ali the person.

Tom C

My take, and this does not at all justify it because it was ugly, was that it was psychological warfare and nothing more. Just Ali trying to get into his opponent's head with whatever would mess with his head the most. I don't think he meant it. He did apologize to Joe's son Marvis I have read, just couldn't bring himself to do it face to face with Joe.

[btcarfagno]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

My take, and this does not at all justify it because it was ugly, was that it was psychological warfare and nothing more. Just Ali trying to get into his opponent's head with whatever would mess with his head the most. I don't think he meant it. He did apologize to Joe's son Marvis I have read, just couldn't bring himself to do it face to face with Joe.

He verbally assaulted the man to the point where his family received death threats FOR NO GOOD REASON AT ALL other than to promote a fight and make money. He alienated Frazier from an entire segment of the population. In doing so he denied Frazier the opportunity to be loved by those that he most wanted to be loved by. And after all of this he still never apologized to his face.

I think the world of Ali, but this part of his life I simply cannot get past.

Tom C

[tjb1952tjb]

Originally Posted by btcarfagno

He did treat Joe Frazier like shit for no reason other than to hype a fight, subjecting Frazier's family and children to death threats. Never did apologize to Frazier in person either. I always thought, personally, that this meant that deep down he may have actually believed the awful things that he said.

I am an Ali fan, so no disrespect meant. But the way that he treated Frazier has always given me some pause about Ali the person.

Tom C

+1

[FourStrikes]

...

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by forazzurri2axz

not editing my post, wouldn't delete that for a second, ESPECIALLY after the bravest most principled man on earth (and my hero) just died. You must be jokin'!
The only way I'll edit my post is to add to the list many more things that Ali did for humanity that you couldn't come close to in 5 lifetimes!

I have no problem with Ali, just with a couple of words that you used. I don't understand why you brought up non white and then doubled down on it. What is your point? The only way that would make sense is if you are insinuating that Ali would have been fine with being stationed in West Germany and would have had no problem with possibly killing an innocent "white". That is absolutely asinine. As for your other point, Dick Cheney has given millions of dollars of his own money to charities, does that make him a good person in your eyes?

[forazzurri2axz]

Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman

I have no problem with Ali, just with a couple of words that you used. I don't understand why you brought up non white and then doubled down on it. What is your point? The only that would make sense is that you are insinuating that Ali would have been fine with being stationed in West Germany because he would have been okay with possibly killing an innocent "white". That is absolutely asinine. As for your other point, Dick Cheney has given millions of his money to charities, does that make him a good person in your eyes?

NO In my eyes he is a war criminal and should be executed. (not joking).. IFF he gave to charities, it's with the money he made from Haliburton in Iraq and all the millions he made from the war he helped provoke. Ali not only gave to charities but was willing to give up (and did) EVERYTHING for NOT going to kill people. That's a yuuuuuggee difference.

By the way, name a war or intervention if it makes you feel better since WW2 that we have fought against white people; that's why I made the comment
about killing non-whites.

[Mdmtx]

Originally Posted by forazzurri2axz

NO In my eyes he is a war criminal and should be executed. (not joking).. IFF he gave to charities, it's with the money he made from Haliburton in Iraq and all the millions he made from the war he helped provoke. Ali not only gave to charities but was willing to give up (and did) EVERYTHING for NOT going to kill people. That's a yuuuuuggee difference.

By the way, name a war or intervention if it makes you feel better since WW2 that we have fought against white people; that's why I made the comment
about killing non-whites.

By the way, you misspelled huge.

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by forazzurri2axz

NO In my eyes he is a war criminal and should be executed. (not joking).. IFF he gave to charities, it's with the money he made from Haliburton in Iraq and all the millions he made from the war he helped provoke. Ali not only gave to charities but was willing to give up (and did) EVERYTHING for NOT going to kill people. That's a yuuuuuggee difference.

By the way, name a war or intervention if it makes you feel better since WW2 that we have fought against white people; that's why I made the comment
about killing non-whites.

Thank you for making my point. Just because someone does good things for society does not mean they are above criticism, which is what you are trying to convey.

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

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