Morris & Trammell Elected to HOF

[calvindog]

Steve Garvey was an All-Star eight years in a row and during that period finished in the top six in the MVP vote five times. He was a dominant player of his era. I don't see how Morris gets in and he doesn't.

[billyb]

Personally, I am thrilled about Trammell making it into the hall of fame. Yes his offensive stats are questionable. I got the pleasure of watching Trammell play during his entire career and to appreciate him not just as a player, but as a person. A leader on the 1984 team, as he was named team captain over strong personalities like Gibson and Parrish. But he kept his entire career unsullied of any kind. Just his defensive achievements, along with Lou Whitaker, as the longest double play combination in the history of the game. They completed more double plays then any other combination in the game. And both averaged over 280 for their career.
If you look at the players that support Trammell, that says more then anything else. He was well respected through the league. Hats off to Alan Trammell. You can match numbers to Trammell all you want, but you can't match many players to his professionalism.

Morris, I cannot agree more with all of you.

[btcarfagno]

Trammell deserves to be in the Hall. Jack Morris is pretty much a joke.

Tom C

[btcarfagno]

Great Fangraphs post here. He also did posts on the pitchers and the other candidates. Love how he mentions some of my cause celebre guys like Grich and Dwight Evans as well as some I feel need to get a longer look like Nettles and Reggie Smith and Darrell Evans.

https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/mode...-lou-whitaker/

Tom C

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by btcarfagno

Great Fangraphs post here. He also did posts on the pitchers and the other candidates. Love how he mentions some of my cause celebre guys like Grich and Dwight Evans as well as some I feel need to get a longer look like Nettles and Reggie Smith and Darrell Evans.

https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/mode...-lou-whitaker/

Tom C

Has Reggie Smith ever received a single vote? I'm sorry but I think if we're mentioning Reggie Smith and the HOF in the same breath we've reached the point of absurdity, not that we haven't already.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Steve Garvey was an All-Star eight years in a row and during that period finished in the top six in the MVP vote five times. He was a dominant player of his era. I don't see how Morris gets in and he doesn't.

It certainly opens it up for Garvey, Murphy and Mattingly from this group to be elected over the next few ballots by this committee. Simmons looks like a lock for the next ballot.

[kailes2872]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Steve Garvey was an All-Star eight years in a row and during that period finished in the top six in the MVP vote five times. He was a dominant player of his era. I don't see how Morris gets in and he doesn't.

During the time that I started watching baseball 1978/1979, there was no bigger star than Steve Garvey. Popeye arms, playing in LA, married to Cindy - you could not tell the story of baseball in the '70's without him. He went to San Diego and didn't have the longevity of others. However, I am convinced that if he stayed in Los Angeles with similar numbers - and maybe a couple of bad end of the career years to add to the counting stats, he walks in.

In my mind, similar with Parker. Along with George Foster, Rod Carew, George Brett and Garvey, they were the biggest stars. I measure this by the baseball books that I would buy at book fairs in elementary school that would tell the stories of the players of the day. He had his mid-80's resurgence with the Reds as well.

I don't begrudge Trammel and Morris - and the '91 WS game 7 is forever etched in my brain - but when I think about that era and the true stars - I think of Garvey and Parker.

[soxinseven]

Originally Posted by kailes2872

During the time that I started watching baseball 1978/1979, there was no bigger star than Steve Garvey. Popeye arms, playing in LA, married to Cindy - you could not tell the story of baseball in the '70's without him. He went to San Diego and didn't have the longevity of others. However, I am convinced that if he stayed in Los Angeles with similar numbers - and maybe a couple of bad end of the career years to add to the counting stats, he walks in.

In my mind, similar with Parker. Along with George Foster, Rod Carew, George Brett and Garvey, they were the biggest stars. I measure this by the baseball books that I would buy at book fairs in elementary school that would tell the stories of the players of the day. He had his mid-80's resurgence with the Reds as well.

I don't begrudge Trammel and Morris - and the '91 WS game 7 is forever etched in my brain - but when I think about that era and the true stars - I think of Garvey and Parker.

Add Jim Rice to that list and those were my thoughts exactly. I still have some of those same books from my younger years. Good post...

[ccre]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Steve Garvey was an All-Star eight years in a row and during that period finished in the top six in the MVP vote five times. He was a dominant player of his era. I don't see how Morris gets in and he doesn't.

I agree 100%.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Mattingly's career numbers are pretty similar to Puckett's in a lot of respects. If you look at Baseball Reference for Puckett, they have Mattingly as the most similar batter, in fact.

[Peter_Spaeth]

In my opinion Tiant was clearly a better pitcher in his day than Morris was in his. Again, not that it's gospel, but by JAWS Tiant is 100+ places ahead of Morris in the all-time rankings, 51 and 164.

[Marchillo]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

In my opinion Tiant was clearly a better pitcher in his day than Morris was in his. Again, not that it's gospel, but by JAWS Tiant is 100+ places ahead of Morris in the all-time rankings, 51 and 164.

+100. Not sure why he doesn't gain more traction in these votes.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Marchillo

+100. Not sure why he doesn't gain more traction in these votes.

World Series titles. If the Red Sox win in 1975, he would probably be in already. Also, Morris benefits from being the best pitcher in an era of bad pitching. Tiant was a better pitcher, but was overshadowed in one of the two great eras for pitchers. He definitely should get in some day. If we are talking about Mike Mussina or Roy Halladay as Hofers, Tiant is too.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by rats60

World Series titles. If the Red Sox win in 1975, he would probably be in already. Also, Morris benefits from being the best pitcher in an era of bad pitching. Tiant was a better pitcher, but was overshadowed in one of the two great eras for pitchers. He definitely should get in some day. If we are talking about Mike Mussina or Roy Halladay as Hofers, Tiant is too.

Sort of depends how tightly you define his era. He pitched 1977-1994. Clemens was there for what, 10 of those years? And Guidry's great years overlapped the first part of Morris' career.

[btcarfagno]

My formative years were the 1970's. I became a baseball fan in 1975 and lived and breathed it until heading off to college over a decade later. As such, I certainly understand the sentiment regarding Steve Garvey and his perception during his career. I saw him in the same way back then. As a National League fan, I always was proud to have Garvey on the NL All Star team, and cheered him on in the World series every time they played the Yankees.

However.

His stats simply have not held up to the passage of time. His complete lack of plate discipline kills him. He also didn't have a bunch of power for a first baseman and was no better than average defensively (he had a pair of legitimate gold gloves and a pair that were no more than popularity victories...those two legitimate victories were pretty much the only years he was well above average statistically with the glove). In terms of 1B not in the Hall, (not including current or players not yet on the ballot) I would rank them as follows:

1. Rafael Palmeiro
2. Keith Hernandez
3. Will Clark
4. Mark McGwire
5. John Olerud
6. Fred McGriff
7. Norm Cash
8. Carlos Delgado
9. Gil Hodges
10. Don Mattingly
11. Ed Konetchy
12. Mark Grace
13. Joe Judge
14. Steve Garvey
15. Boog Powell

But that still means I would put Garvey in the Hall before I put Jack Morris in there. I could likely list 10-15 players from the Morris era up to the 2000's that I would put in the Hall before I would Morris. And that excludes pitchers from prior to 1977 of whom there are far more who should be there before Morris. As I said, Morris is David Wells. David Wells is Jack Morris.

Tom C