The Show at The Oaks in Philly- a Disaster!

[ArchStanton]

I wish I could have made it to the show, but there was no way the four-hour drive could fit into my schedule right now. If the local guys are interested, there is a gun show at the same place this weekend. If it is anything like the last one they held, you will have trouble finding parking. They had to extend the hours of their last show due to the number of people trying to get in.

I think the difference in attendance between the types shows is almost solely a factor of the current market. Can the local guys give any input here? Has anyone noticed a difference in local advertising for the two shows? I think having them on back-to-back weekends provides a good comparison. I would love to see a successful card show in Philly. If Marco keeps trying, I will make every effort to make sure I am at the next one.

[mintacular]

Sorry this show didn't work out for many of the dealers...I do think one should remember that even if you didn't turn a profit at this show if you had a few positive transactions with buyers you might see them again. So while you may have only sold them a $10 beater T206 common this time perhaps in a couple years that same guy will remember you and buy a $1000 Matty or whatever the next time...

I still think shows offer an advantage to buyers that the internet cannot that being holding/seeing a card in person. While I generally don't buy "big" stars at shows due to overpricing, I do find it cost-efficient to buy commons to fill sets....

Last point, I think high gas $'s right now for these types of shows. For example I almost went to Cleveland's Strongville Show (from Pgh) a few weeks ago but then thought it will cost me $75+ in gas so I shelved the idea. I'm sure this is true with other collectors who would've normally made a couple/few hour drive to Philly but gas $'s made this decision more difficult

[DJR]

.

[Rich Klein]

I agree 100 percent; there is no reason that internet is a great way to go. Inexpensive as you are already paying for your web site....

Make sure on the CSA web site (if there is an easy way to people to join your mailing list. I just went to the CSA web site, and in a word, it was a terrible site.

Roger Neufeldt sends out postcards every time he does either a show or his one-man shows in the DFW area. Those postcards are a small cost out of pocket to bring in people just to see him. I guarantee you that investment is well worth the cost for him.

One of the other issues with the hobby today, is that we do not really have central points as we did 20 years ago. There is little doubt that Beckett and F&W (Krause( are not what they were in 1992. In those days, they were the central points to get out news about the hobby. Now, there is more information available but less structure as to how to get the news out. But there are always people who want to go that don't know and find out by accident.

Shoot, in 1984, before the Parsappany National, there were actually quite a few collectors I remember meeting in North Jersey who had no idea the event would be taking place. And these were people who liked cards and were interested at the time.

Dan brought up a good point as to why prices seem to be "museum" like, when you figure out your out of pocket costs before you sell a card. there has to be some profit factor brought in. The issue becomes, the profit factor versus what people can now find on line similar cards to.

And let's face it, shows are not what thwy were as many of us don't see the need to go out anymore. Instead we sit at home and buy/sell/trade cards. But without decent shows and stores, I always worry about where the newer collectors will find us

Rich

[Jewish-collector]

You need to remember that Marco's shows are primarily geared for autograph collectors. The Chantilly show works because Marco brings in tremendous autograph signers. Collectors do not care about cards, much less vintage cards.

I think if Marco and Hunt could combine their separate shows in the Philly area into one large, it might work. It would draw both the autograph collectors as well as the vintage card collectors. JUst a thought.

I know that a lot of guys only like to buy cards from Net54, eBay and the auction houses. The reason to go to the shows is to meet the auction reps, the dealers, and other collectors. Online takes away the personal touch.

[steve B]

Being in a few hobbies gives me a look at how things get done with other stuff.

The internet is big, putting the show info out there on boards and mailing lists makes a big difference. With the old bicycle crowd it's almost the only advertising. Our local show was run by a 10 speed guy for years, but he moved away and it;s now done by a baloon tire guy.(Think like the difference between prewar and 50's collectors) And advertised in different places. Totally different crowd.

The local stamp shows are either very regular, or advertised well. Ads in hobby publications, online and as Rich says some dealers send out postcards before the show. There's a big show this weekend, and I've gotten 3 different postcards plus 3-4 Emails. The show as far as I know does little advertising otherwise. The signs by the highway are maybe a couple feet square, and a little a frame sign at the end of the street the hotel is on.

Steve B

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

I agree 100 percent; there is no reason that internet is a great way to go. Inexpensive as you are already paying for your web site....

Make sure on the CSA web site (if there is an easy way to people to join your mailing list. I just went to the CSA web site, and in a word, it was a terrible site.

Roger Neufeldt sends out postcards every time he does either a show or his one-man shows in the DFW area. Those postcards are a small cost out of pocket to bring in people just to see him. I guarantee you that investment is well worth the cost for him.

One of the other issues with the hobby today, is that we do not really have central points as we did 20 years ago. There is little doubt that Beckett and F&W (Krause( are not what they were in 1992. In those days, they were the central points to get out news about the hobby. Now, there is more information available but less structure as to how to get the news out. But there are always people who want to go that don't know and find out by accident.

Shoot, in 1984, before the Parsappany National, there were actually quite a few collectors I remember meeting in North Jersey who had no idea the event would be taking place. And these were people who liked cards and were interested at the time.

Dan brought up a good point as to why prices seem to be "museum" like, when you figure out your out of pocket costs before you sell a card. there has to be some profit factor brought in. The issue becomes, the profit factor versus what people can now find on line similar cards to.

And let's face it, shows are not what thwy were as many of us don't see the need to go out anymore. Instead we sit at home and buy/sell/trade cards. But without decent shows and stores, I always worry about where the newer collectors will find us

Rich

[bbcard1]

BTW, I know he was on Philly.com, Net54 and Signings Hotline as well. Advertising is tough for this sort of thing. Ballcards are no longer a populist sell. The internet as an advertising medium, with the exception of specialzed sites such as this one, is well over-hyped as an advertising medium.

[Hankphenom]

How hard would it be to get everyone's email? In business school, it's called "point of purchase promotion," the best there is. The customer is already there, and has proven his interest in your product. Don't you want to make sure they all know when the show comes around again, when you're having a sale on your autographs, etc? And, aside from the effort involved in compiling and maintaining your list, it's free! Postcards, newspapers, billboards, really? It's the 21st century, folks. Adapt or die.

[kcohen]

Originally Posted by ArchStanton

I wish I could have made it to the show, but there was no way the four-hour drive could fit into my schedule right now. If the local guys are interested, there is a gun show at the same place this weekend. If it is anything like the last one they held, you will have trouble finding parking. They had to extend the hours of their last show due to the number of people trying to get in.

Gun shows are smoking these days. I remember doing the Hunt show a few years back and there was a gun show on the top floor. It was jammed. I wondered if I was in the wrong business. Maybe it would help sales at shows if we spread a rumor that Obama is going to ban baseball cards.

[7nohitter]

As a low-mid level collector (by the standards on these boards) I am NOT going to go to a show like this, and here's why:

1) Why look at a $700 price tag on a card when I KNOW I can get the card on the 'bay for at MOST half of that...

2) Why walk around a table, only to be given poor (at best) service by the guy who had to get up to answer my questions

3) For what I'd pay in gas I could buy a decent 206 to add to my collection.

Now, that aside, I MISS the discussions with the guys (like on this forum) who sell at these shows...unfortunately, the good guys are FAR outnumbered by the AS&SHOLES at these shows...

[skelly]

I have to think the customer base is still there, it just needs to get some momentum back. I used to go to the Show when it was in Reading. It was an awesome show. My buddies who aren't even really collectors loved to go and look at the stuff with me, etc.. Honestly, I think that the Hunt show falling apart has also hurt this show as for better or worse, some collectors are going to lump them together. The bottom line is that the empty tables just kill it for me. It's like going to a football game, and you walk in and no one is sitting anywhere but between the thirty yard line.... You drive all the way down to the show, and you walk in, its dead, and your like what is wrong with me for driving all the way down ( and your wife who comes with you wonders the same )... I would still go despite the fact the prices are high, if I really felt there was going to be a lot of stuff to look at, etc...

[Simmons Nation]

i'd like to echo some of the comments by mordecaibrown and 7nohitter....
i too was at the CSA show and most (although not all) of the prices were insane. if it wasn't for a last minute purchase of an E95 for a good price, it would have been a waste of time.

as mordecaibrown was saying, buyers are more educated then ever with internet access on cell phones, ebay, multiple online auctions... you know what a card is going for. the fact is, i don't have unlimited resources and am not going to overpay for a card just because.

one example in particular... i won't give the specifics, but there was a card that had just sold the week before at an online auction for around $100. i found the same card... same grade... similar condition... and the seller was asking $250. he came down to $200.

bottom line is if i won powerball, i'd be happy to pay extra to dealers to keep the shows going. but until that happens, i'm on a budget, and i can't afford to pay double at a show compared to what i can pay online.

[autograf]

@Kcohen.............hilarious comment about Obama and BB cards.......

[ullmandds]

So basically...BB card collecting has followed the same path as shopping for most other items!

If you go to best buy...or the wiz looking for a tv...you will most likely pay a bit more than with shopping online...also paying taxes...but you get the benefit of seeing the item...and it's picture quality.

Same has happened with cards...it seems. If u want to see it...hold it...examine it with a magnifier...then you now pay a premium...save the taxes in most cases...vs buying an item online...site impaired?!

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by 7nohitter

As a low-mid level collector (by the standards on these boards) I am NOT going to go to a show like this, and here's why:

1) Why look at a $700 price tag on a card when I KNOW I can get the card on the 'bay for at MOST half of that...

2) Why walk around a table, only to be given poor (at best) service by the guy who had to get up to answer my questions

3) For what I'd pay in gas I could buy a decent 206 to add to my collection.

Now, that aside, I MISS the discussions with the guys (like on this forum) who sell at these shows...unfortunately, the good guys are FAR outnumbered by the AS&SHOLES at these shows...

There’s a flipside to this way of thinking….as a collector/part time seller.

For every good customer there are far more as you say A$$hole customers who want nothing more than to ask to buy fair priced cards for half price and are upset when sellers won’t sell at requested prices.

The problem is that most people who attend these shows are looking for deals and I don’t mean reasonable deals I mean steals. I’ve set up now at three of these to sell off some of my extras I see it time and time again. Some guy walks up to a table asks to see some cards asks me what I want and I give a fair inline ebay avg. price and I get offered half. Why would I sell an EX graded card that is going every day on eBay say for $80 for $45?

I say no then they get bent out of shape. Like I have a case full of graded baseball cards at a baseball card show and have no rough idea of value really?

I agree there are crazy prices on some dealer’s stuff I just don’t buy from them. However this is no different than eBay good god look at all the same cards that pop up each week with BIN’s that are 1500% more than current retail value.

If you are going to these shows with hopes it will be like the shows in the old days where you expect to find cards for half off or super sweet deals you’re wasting your time. The same would be said for hitting antique malls with the hopes of finding a Wagner card shoved in a case being sold by some hermit that’s lived in a hole for the past 30 years, it’s not going to happen. People know what they have.

You will find two prices at shows today, overpriced and retail.

Yes you can do the same by hitting eBay but much more can come of shows. One sometimes there are goods at shows that don’t hit eBay I spent about 10k at Oaks on stuff a guy had I didn’t even know about. Second meeting people is nice and sometimes you get to hold and see cards that you only see in pictures on eBay.

There is something to be said for holding a Wagner T206 or seeing a super obscure regional issue up close and personal as well as meeting the other collectors who call this hobby home.

Long live the local card show!

Cheers,

John