The Show at The Oaks in Philly- a Disaster!

[danmckee]

WOW! I had a local couple come to my table and say they didn't even know the show was happening if not for a friend who told them. They said nothing was in the paper or anywhere out on the main roads.

At this point, it looks like shows in the Philly area are DEAD!

2 shows, The Oaks and David Hunt's have both evaporated.

It is a very sad thing, but I wish David would have just stayed at Reading where the show was AWESOME! Affordable booths and tons of customers.

I will miss Philly!

It was very nice to meet Jerry and Howie in person!

Dan Mckee

[bbcard1]

I know for a fact that Marco spent more than $7000 was spent in the philly paper in the sports section. I'm not saying it was a good show, but the fact is that Marco made a good effort. He also did digital boards on the main highway.

I know he wants to make it work, but I don't know what he can do...but the idea the show was not advertised is incorrect.

[mordecaibrown]

I went to the Oaks show on Saturday and it certainly was not busy. I had the pleasure to meet John (WonkaTicket) and enjoyed discussing some other sets that are outside my usual collection - it was very educational for me and I appreciated his time (Dan - unfortunately I did not have the chance to meet you, you were away from the table when I was there).

In my opinion, the reason people do not go to shows anymore is that they have become museums! Personally, I have no problem spending a reasonable premium on cards at shows over buying on the internet - I can see the card in person, I dont have to spend on shipping, I get to interact with people in the hobby - all benefits that make it worth spending a slight premium to me. I understand the dealers have table fees, transportation, etc. as well.

However, the prices I was quoted on cards were out of this world. I have no problem with a dealer starting a little high and negotiating, but when the starting prices are insane - there is no reason for me to counter with an "insulting" offer.

I inquired about a card that recently sold in the Sterling Auction (Thursday night) and the card at the show and in the auction were both SGC 40 (I know some are not fond of grading and all SGC40s are not the same, but this gives a point of reference).

The price quoted at the show was twice what the card sold for as recently as 2 nights prior (with buyers premium). When I mentioned the auction of the card, the dealer just blew me off. Again, I would have been willing to pay more in person, but the initial price was so high - how do you start a negotiation???

So, in my opinion, vintage card collecting is strong in the PA area; however, shows are dying down because, the show prices are just not realistic. Why drive to a show and pay an entrance fee to have the opportunity to see cards at drastically elevated prices - when I can sit at home and peruse ebay, net54, etc and find a card at a reasonable price?

If the answer is its a great time to meet others in the hobby, well I agree with that, but thats what the shows are becoming - an opportunity to meet others in the hobby and learn, but not to buy items.

Again - that is just my opinion and experience from this weekend's show.

Andy

[travrosty]

I have seen that too, stratospheric prices on cards, don't know if they ever really want to sell any of them. If the card is nice, i expect it to be listed high, a little over high retail. but some dont even put a price on their cards, they want you to ask about it, thats a clue to me that the price must be sky high.

I went to the national in '91 and tried to buy a few 80-81 topps basketball panel commons and semi-stars, (i know, not exactly vintage stuff,)

but anyway, common cards which would normally sell for 50 cents had 7 or 8or 9 dollar price tags and the semi stars which would normally be a dollar or two had 25 or 30 or 40 dollar price tags. WTH?

I picked out about a dozen of them, thinking that the pricing had to be a mistake and those amounts must mean cents, not dollars, he added them all up and said two fifty. I gave him a 5 dollar bill, and then he looked at me and said "that's two hundred and fifty dollars"

I put them down, said no thanks, and moved on.

[Chris Counts]

I agree that the vast majority of cards at shows are overpriced and no doubt contribute to the demise of such shows. I've been to shows in San Francisco and Glendale over the past few weeks, and one card dramatically illustrated this point for me. I got outbid on eBay for a trimmed T206 Ed Walsh. It went for about $180, which was nearly double what I wanted to pay — and what I eventually will pay for it if I'm patient. Just a few days after the eBay auction closed, I saw it in San Francisco for $415. Yes, "museum" is a good word for what shows have become ...

[barrysloate]

Sounds like the dealers who price their cards right and genuinely want to do business are being affected by those who charge multiples of retail. It's keeping the consumers away and hurting everyone.

[danmckee]

Originally Posted by bbcard1

I know for a fact that Marco spent more than $7000 was spent in the philly paper in the sports section. I'm not saying it was a good show, but the fact is that Marco made a good effort. He also did digital boards on the main highway.

I know he wants to make it work, but I don't know what he can do...but the idea the show was not advertised is incorrect.

That is interesting, Wonka lives 5 minutes from there and travels 422 to and from his office and never saw anything. It is possible that the couple who had to find out by a local card shop, missed the paper advertisement.

[Chris D.]

Originally Posted by mordecaibrown

However, the prices I was quoted on cards were out of this world. I have no problem with a dealer starting a little high and negotiating, but when the starting prices are insane - there is no reason for me to counter with an "insulting" offer.
Andy

Exact issue I had on Saturday.

[danmckee]

These are all fair statements. Especially when you are looking for cards that are fairly common to find.

My expenses were:

$350 for 2 tables
$225 for 2 nights Hotel (my choice for Courtyard)
$75 in gas from Freeland Maryland
$20 splitting Hot Dogs with Wonka
2 1/2 days away from my family.

So I would have had to clear close to $700 to break even

Dan

[bbcard1]

Originally Posted by danmckee

That is interesting, Wonka lives 5 minutes from there and travels 422 to and from his office and never saw anything. It is possible that the couple who had to find out by a local card shop, missed the paper advertisement.

It is completely possible. Fewer and fewer people read the paper.Sad but true.

[danmckee]

Originally Posted by bbcard1

It is completely possible. Fewer and fewer people read the paper.Sad but true.

Yes that is very sad! My dad loves the paper!

[wonkaticket]

Great meeting you too Andy enjoyed talking with you guys.

I live right in the area I saw nothing anywhere in the way of billboard face time. I dont read local papers too much but my buddy Matt lives by them as a local coach of a high school team and he didn't know the show was going on.

The location is good and bad good becuse it's easy to get to, bad because it's off the path and hard know if things are happening.

I'm sure Marco made an effort but much of the crowd was overflow from the other shows...

I find it amazing that the baby and toddler show next door was packed parking lot full each day and nobody came to see and get autos signed and look at sports stuff, yet the music show and latino chruch thing next door were also jumping...

For me I did ok I sold all I brought with me so I was ok with the show.

Cheers,

John

[edhans]

My expenses were:

$350 for 2 tables
$225 for 2 nights Hotel (my choice for Courtyard)
$75 in gas from Freeland Maryland
$20 splitting Hot Dogs with Wonka
2 1/2 days away from my family.

So I would have had to clear close to $700 to break even

Dan,
You would've had to clear a hell of a lot more if you counted the cost of the cards you sold into the equation.

[x2drich2000]

Let me start off by saying, I want this show to thrive. I really like going to shows, but something has to be done or this show won't survive.

Obviously, as Dan pointed out, the costs to set up at a show go beyond just the table costs. From a dealer's prospective, these costs need to be made up somewhere. Therefore, I think it should be expected that you will pay a bit more at a show then online. At the same time, double or triple the price just seems outrageous

I appreciate that Marco spent $7000+ on advertising for the show. That's quite a bit of money and at least shows some dedication to making the show work. However, it seems to me based on my own observations, and the comments by others, that the advertising was not effective and this was money not well spent. Personally, I know very few people who still get newspapers. Billboards are limited to who is traveling on that particular road. In addition, Billboards do not focus on a specific demographic. Card collecting is a much pretty specific niche of the community. There is by far a much larger population that would be interested in a baby/toddler show. Therefore, the advertising I believe needs to be targeted more to our limited population.

So if you were a show promoter today, what kind of advertising would you do to make a newer show such as Oaks successful?

dj

[Leon]

I haven't seen a poor point made yet, all good points. Not sure where to start but I guess with the costs. Dan's $700 is profit he would have to make before breaking even financially (forget about time served, that is actually a positive). If we figure 15%-20% profit then he would have to do around 3500-4000 in sales. I can only speak for myself but the last show at Oaks I did, I did a bit more than that. I also price my stuff fairly (I believe). If I get a great deal I try to make up for bad deals. At the end of the day, 15% profit is probably where I end up. I love going to shows and would also pay a bit more at a show,......say, maybe 15% or so. ......the dealers I usually see have their stuff priced the way others have already vented about. It's crazy. I probably am not going to pay a ton more....a little yes, a ton, no. I also agree with the advertising. If no one saw it then there are probably better ways to spend the money. Marco did advertise on this board (it was appreciated) and I am sure many have seen the ads. I don't have a silver bullet but I remain committed to doing the Oaks show and will try even harder to make the next one. I thoroughly enjoyed it the last times I did it. Also, with airfare and hotel my expenses are considerably more but that is the way it is when you live in a city with no good vintage shows. You either travel or you don't do them. Hanging out with lots of my friends is more than a collector could ask for, in itself. See you guys next time...

[Delray Vintage]

I buy a few high cost vintage cards a year. I find the auctions in April and May provide all I need to pick what I want to buy at market prices. I at least know what a fair price is and do not need to see the same cards at booths at higher prices. So give me a good web site or catalog and I'll save time and travel money. I did go to the national in Baltimore but was dissapointed with the prices. I got a few expensive cards crossed over but that was all. I am seeing that the vast information available on the web makes these dealers who over price real dinosaurs. Like it or not the Internet age makes market pricing easy to find and you cannot hope for some fool to pay twice as much anymore because they see it at a show.

[tedzan]

Considering the low attendance, I had a pretty good show. This is the 3rd Oaks Show that I have set up at; and, all 3 have been good for me in terms
of selling, buying and trading vintage cards.

Here is the scenario......

Friday was very slow. On Saturday I had a couple of "big hitters" that made my day. Especially, the guy that bought my T206 Johnson (Ex condition).
He was interested in this card and after we discussed the price, he said that he would return.....Well, you know how that goes.
However, I was pleasantly surprised when he did return several hours later and we did the deal.

My usual T206 "junk-box" was cleaned out. Sold some T205's. And, a large lot of 1949 BOWMAN Hi# cards. A few 1949 LEAF BB - 1st series cards. And,
two 1910 COUPON Southern Leaguer's. Oh, and 1950's & 1960's Yankees & Phillies (Ford, "Puddin Head" Jones, Roberts, Skowron, "Dooley" Womack. etc.)

Sunday was not too busy, so I caught up on reading a great BB book...."Perfect".

Hey guys....I was ONE-FOR-THREE....that's batting .333 and that's good enough to get you into the HOF.

" That's All Folks ! "

I look forward to Marco's Fall show in Oaks....it's got to get better.


TED Z

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by x2drich2000

So if you were a show promoter today, what kind of advertising would you do to make a newer show such as Oaks successful?

dj

Get the email address of every person that walks into every show you do. Get the email address of every person that buys an autograph from you, whether in person, by mail, by phone, by internet. Send several emails prior to every show you do to the entire list. How much would that cost? Then, whatever actual cash you spend, put every dollar into online promotion, including everything like Net54 you can find. Newspapers and billboards, are you kidding me? I would have laughed at that ten years ago. I harangued Marco for years to do the email thing, but finally gave up. I don't think he's ever done it to this day. Now, he does get a good crowd to Chantilly, and to the Edison show, so he's doing something right there. But 90+% of the crowds at those shows are there strictly for the signing guests, so the vintage dealers are always depending on the few actual collectors who do manage to become aware of the show (probably from word of mouth or just knowing about when the shows are held usually.) Marco's a buddy, and I love doing his shows, but us dealers for years have been mere window dressing to the real action going on behind the scenes, and at some point he's going to lose the window dressing and it will be a big autograph event only. Maybe enough shiny stuff and autograph supplies guys will survive to provide the appearance of a "card and memorabilia show," but it will not be a show in the old sense any more.
As for the mystery of how the dealers who price their stuff beyond all reasoning manage to survive, I can't imagine. I do know that to cover expenses, pay for inventory, and end up with something for my time and effort, I need to actually SELL STUFF, so I try to price accordingly. That's half the game of being a dealer, knowing what the market will bear. How can these guys keep doing shows? How do they last charging 2 or 3X what any idiot can see from the net is the going price? I don't get it, but I'm guessing they won't be around much longer. Unfortunately, they and the other forces perhaps beyond our control will take the shows with them. But, hey, let's enjoy them while we can!

[spacktrack]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

Get the email address of every person that walks into every show you do. Get the email address of every person that buys an autograph from you, whether in person, by mail, by phone, by internet. Send several emails prior to every show you do to the entire list.

Agreed, that's probably one of the easiest ways to market the show. Spend some of the money that goes to billboards and newspaper ads and buy a few marquee door prizes that make people really want to volunteer their information. Hand out a door prize form to everyone when they buy their ticket. Most of the people will fill it out as they wait in line. Sure, not everyone will fill it out but at the end of the show, gather all the submitted entries and log them into a document to use going forward. Between Chantilly, Edison, and Oaks, there would probably be a pretty good list built. You can send e-mail reminders and/or mail postcards to the people on your list leading up to the show. Maybe include a coupon in the email/postcard for discounted admission so that 1) people are rewarded for their loyalty to the show and 2) you can gauge the effectiveness and repeat business coming back to the show.

Also, encourage the dealers to share some of the responsibility and promote to their customers via email or some other method. Ted and Dan did a good job informing the board, and I know there were people who only found out about the show from their posts.

Another thing that absolutely needs to be worked on is the CSA website. If your computer blocks flash, the hours of the Oaks show were nowhere to be found on the site. The dealer list was also not updated and at least seven dealers that I know personally were listed as exhibitors and not set up. Spending money on billboards and newspaper ads is all well and good, but if the website, which is the main portal to a lot of hobbyists, isn't updated, it can come across as a lack of enthusiasm about the show. I don't live in the PA area, so I'll never see any of the ads they run, but I do check the website, and it was pretty frustrating trying to get information.

I want the show to thrive as it's in a good area and strong shows are always needed. It won't be overnight, but there's a lot of potential if harnessed in the right way.

[ArchStanton]

I wish I could have made it to the show, but there was no way the four-hour drive could fit into my schedule right now. If the local guys are interested, there is a gun show at the same place this weekend. If it is anything like the last one they held, you will have trouble finding parking. They had to extend the hours of their last show due to the number of people trying to get in.

I think the difference in attendance between the types shows is almost solely a factor of the current market. Can the local guys give any input here? Has anyone noticed a difference in local advertising for the two shows? I think having them on back-to-back weekends provides a good comparison. I would love to see a successful card show in Philly. If Marco keeps trying, I will make every effort to make sure I am at the next one.

[mintacular]

Sorry this show didn't work out for many of the dealers...I do think one should remember that even if you didn't turn a profit at this show if you had a few positive transactions with buyers you might see them again. So while you may have only sold them a $10 beater T206 common this time perhaps in a couple years that same guy will remember you and buy a $1000 Matty or whatever the next time...

I still think shows offer an advantage to buyers that the internet cannot that being holding/seeing a card in person. While I generally don't buy "big" stars at shows due to overpricing, I do find it cost-efficient to buy commons to fill sets....

Last point, I think high gas $'s right now for these types of shows. For example I almost went to Cleveland's Strongville Show (from Pgh) a few weeks ago but then thought it will cost me $75+ in gas so I shelved the idea. I'm sure this is true with other collectors who would've normally made a couple/few hour drive to Philly but gas $'s made this decision more difficult

[DJR]

.

[Rich Klein]

I agree 100 percent; there is no reason that internet is a great way to go. Inexpensive as you are already paying for your web site....

Make sure on the CSA web site (if there is an easy way to people to join your mailing list. I just went to the CSA web site, and in a word, it was a terrible site.

Roger Neufeldt sends out postcards every time he does either a show or his one-man shows in the DFW area. Those postcards are a small cost out of pocket to bring in people just to see him. I guarantee you that investment is well worth the cost for him.

One of the other issues with the hobby today, is that we do not really have central points as we did 20 years ago. There is little doubt that Beckett and F&W (Krause( are not what they were in 1992. In those days, they were the central points to get out news about the hobby. Now, there is more information available but less structure as to how to get the news out. But there are always people who want to go that don't know and find out by accident.

Shoot, in 1984, before the Parsappany National, there were actually quite a few collectors I remember meeting in North Jersey who had no idea the event would be taking place. And these were people who liked cards and were interested at the time.

Dan brought up a good point as to why prices seem to be "museum" like, when you figure out your out of pocket costs before you sell a card. there has to be some profit factor brought in. The issue becomes, the profit factor versus what people can now find on line similar cards to.

And let's face it, shows are not what thwy were as many of us don't see the need to go out anymore. Instead we sit at home and buy/sell/trade cards. But without decent shows and stores, I always worry about where the newer collectors will find us

Rich

[Jewish-collector]

You need to remember that Marco's shows are primarily geared for autograph collectors. The Chantilly show works because Marco brings in tremendous autograph signers. Collectors do not care about cards, much less vintage cards.

I think if Marco and Hunt could combine their separate shows in the Philly area into one large, it might work. It would draw both the autograph collectors as well as the vintage card collectors. JUst a thought.

I know that a lot of guys only like to buy cards from Net54, eBay and the auction houses. The reason to go to the shows is to meet the auction reps, the dealers, and other collectors. Online takes away the personal touch.

[steve B]

Being in a few hobbies gives me a look at how things get done with other stuff.

The internet is big, putting the show info out there on boards and mailing lists makes a big difference. With the old bicycle crowd it's almost the only advertising. Our local show was run by a 10 speed guy for years, but he moved away and it;s now done by a baloon tire guy.(Think like the difference between prewar and 50's collectors) And advertised in different places. Totally different crowd.

The local stamp shows are either very regular, or advertised well. Ads in hobby publications, online and as Rich says some dealers send out postcards before the show. There's a big show this weekend, and I've gotten 3 different postcards plus 3-4 Emails. The show as far as I know does little advertising otherwise. The signs by the highway are maybe a couple feet square, and a little a frame sign at the end of the street the hotel is on.

Steve B

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

I agree 100 percent; there is no reason that internet is a great way to go. Inexpensive as you are already paying for your web site....

Make sure on the CSA web site (if there is an easy way to people to join your mailing list. I just went to the CSA web site, and in a word, it was a terrible site.

Roger Neufeldt sends out postcards every time he does either a show or his one-man shows in the DFW area. Those postcards are a small cost out of pocket to bring in people just to see him. I guarantee you that investment is well worth the cost for him.

One of the other issues with the hobby today, is that we do not really have central points as we did 20 years ago. There is little doubt that Beckett and F&W (Krause( are not what they were in 1992. In those days, they were the central points to get out news about the hobby. Now, there is more information available but less structure as to how to get the news out. But there are always people who want to go that don't know and find out by accident.

Shoot, in 1984, before the Parsappany National, there were actually quite a few collectors I remember meeting in North Jersey who had no idea the event would be taking place. And these were people who liked cards and were interested at the time.

Dan brought up a good point as to why prices seem to be "museum" like, when you figure out your out of pocket costs before you sell a card. there has to be some profit factor brought in. The issue becomes, the profit factor versus what people can now find on line similar cards to.

And let's face it, shows are not what thwy were as many of us don't see the need to go out anymore. Instead we sit at home and buy/sell/trade cards. But without decent shows and stores, I always worry about where the newer collectors will find us

Rich

[bbcard1]

BTW, I know he was on Philly.com, Net54 and Signings Hotline as well. Advertising is tough for this sort of thing. Ballcards are no longer a populist sell. The internet as an advertising medium, with the exception of specialzed sites such as this one, is well over-hyped as an advertising medium.

[Hankphenom]

How hard would it be to get everyone's email? In business school, it's called "point of purchase promotion," the best there is. The customer is already there, and has proven his interest in your product. Don't you want to make sure they all know when the show comes around again, when you're having a sale on your autographs, etc? And, aside from the effort involved in compiling and maintaining your list, it's free! Postcards, newspapers, billboards, really? It's the 21st century, folks. Adapt or die.

[travrosty]

everytime i go to radio shack to buy a resistor, they ask for my name, address, email, telephone number, zip code. haha.

I remember sometimes people put out a fishbowl at a table and ask for business cards or addresses, and give away some card as a prize if you put it your name and email/address.

gun shows are popular and the gun show in my area allows baseball card dealers to set up if they want.

[mordecaibrown]

I live in the Philadelphia area, so I definitely would like for this show to succeed!

I also agree that getting emails is not only a good idea, but a necessity - I check my email everyday, I dont read the paper every day. I also agree that the CSA website is horrendous - its hard to maneuver around the website and difficult to find information - user friendly is not a phrase that comes to mind.

Those are great ideas that will help get customers in the doors, but until some dealers start asking reasonable prices nothing will change in reference to sales.

Buyers are more educated than ever and many have smart phones. If you see a card you like (but are unfamiliar with) and want to know if the price being quoted by dealer is fair - you can search the card and completed listings on ebay and get a point of reference in about 3 minutes.

There is a reason that Barnes and Noble is going bankrupt and Amazon is thriving - its the same product for half the price and no travel (gas = $$$). In these economic times, price is more important than ever.

And I understand the overhead dealers have to cover, so they cannot match ebay prices (I also assume rarely are they purchasing cards at retail prices - so there is still a profit margin to be made by selling a card at retail prices); however, until the prices are more aligned with online prices (10-15% premium seems reasonable), I dont care how many people you get in the door - few people are going to be making purchases.

Just my opinion. Andy

[kcohen]

Originally Posted by ArchStanton

I wish I could have made it to the show, but there was no way the four-hour drive could fit into my schedule right now. If the local guys are interested, there is a gun show at the same place this weekend. If it is anything like the last one they held, you will have trouble finding parking. They had to extend the hours of their last show due to the number of people trying to get in.

Gun shows are smoking these days. I remember doing the Hunt show a few years back and there was a gun show on the top floor. It was jammed. I wondered if I was in the wrong business. Maybe it would help sales at shows if we spread a rumor that Obama is going to ban baseball cards.

[7nohitter]

As a low-mid level collector (by the standards on these boards) I am NOT going to go to a show like this, and here's why:

1) Why look at a $700 price tag on a card when I KNOW I can get the card on the 'bay for at MOST half of that...

2) Why walk around a table, only to be given poor (at best) service by the guy who had to get up to answer my questions

3) For what I'd pay in gas I could buy a decent 206 to add to my collection.

Now, that aside, I MISS the discussions with the guys (like on this forum) who sell at these shows...unfortunately, the good guys are FAR outnumbered by the AS&SHOLES at these shows...

[skelly]

I have to think the customer base is still there, it just needs to get some momentum back. I used to go to the Show when it was in Reading. It was an awesome show. My buddies who aren't even really collectors loved to go and look at the stuff with me, etc.. Honestly, I think that the Hunt show falling apart has also hurt this show as for better or worse, some collectors are going to lump them together. The bottom line is that the empty tables just kill it for me. It's like going to a football game, and you walk in and no one is sitting anywhere but between the thirty yard line.... You drive all the way down to the show, and you walk in, its dead, and your like what is wrong with me for driving all the way down ( and your wife who comes with you wonders the same )... I would still go despite the fact the prices are high, if I really felt there was going to be a lot of stuff to look at, etc...

[Simmons Nation]

i'd like to echo some of the comments by mordecaibrown and 7nohitter....
i too was at the CSA show and most (although not all) of the prices were insane. if it wasn't for a last minute purchase of an E95 for a good price, it would have been a waste of time.

as mordecaibrown was saying, buyers are more educated then ever with internet access on cell phones, ebay, multiple online auctions... you know what a card is going for. the fact is, i don't have unlimited resources and am not going to overpay for a card just because.

one example in particular... i won't give the specifics, but there was a card that had just sold the week before at an online auction for around $100. i found the same card... same grade... similar condition... and the seller was asking $250. he came down to $200.

bottom line is if i won powerball, i'd be happy to pay extra to dealers to keep the shows going. but until that happens, i'm on a budget, and i can't afford to pay double at a show compared to what i can pay online.

[autograf]

@Kcohen.............hilarious comment about Obama and BB cards.......

[ullmandds]

So basically...BB card collecting has followed the same path as shopping for most other items!

If you go to best buy...or the wiz looking for a tv...you will most likely pay a bit more than with shopping online...also paying taxes...but you get the benefit of seeing the item...and it's picture quality.

Same has happened with cards...it seems. If u want to see it...hold it...examine it with a magnifier...then you now pay a premium...save the taxes in most cases...vs buying an item online...site impaired?!

[Frank A]

My problem with the show was not dealer prices. Dealers can put what they want on their items, it's their right and all will deal to some extent. My problem with the show was lack of dealers. When I went in on friday, about half of the tables were empty. I figured a lot of dealers must only show up on saturday or sunday. Then I saw a dealer with about 14 tables of $1, $2 and $5 stuff and realized some of the dealers there were spreading it out to make it look better. No way that dealer spent for 14 tables. I think the show is cooked. Frank

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by 7nohitter

As a low-mid level collector (by the standards on these boards) I am NOT going to go to a show like this, and here's why:

1) Why look at a $700 price tag on a card when I KNOW I can get the card on the 'bay for at MOST half of that...

2) Why walk around a table, only to be given poor (at best) service by the guy who had to get up to answer my questions

3) For what I'd pay in gas I could buy a decent 206 to add to my collection.

Now, that aside, I MISS the discussions with the guys (like on this forum) who sell at these shows...unfortunately, the good guys are FAR outnumbered by the AS&SHOLES at these shows...

There’s a flipside to this way of thinking….as a collector/part time seller.

For every good customer there are far more as you say A$$hole customers who want nothing more than to ask to buy fair priced cards for half price and are upset when sellers won’t sell at requested prices.

The problem is that most people who attend these shows are looking for deals and I don’t mean reasonable deals I mean steals. I’ve set up now at three of these to sell off some of my extras I see it time and time again. Some guy walks up to a table asks to see some cards asks me what I want and I give a fair inline ebay avg. price and I get offered half. Why would I sell an EX graded card that is going every day on eBay say for $80 for $45?

I say no then they get bent out of shape. Like I have a case full of graded baseball cards at a baseball card show and have no rough idea of value really?

I agree there are crazy prices on some dealer’s stuff I just don’t buy from them. However this is no different than eBay good god look at all the same cards that pop up each week with BIN’s that are 1500% more than current retail value.

If you are going to these shows with hopes it will be like the shows in the old days where you expect to find cards for half off or super sweet deals you’re wasting your time. The same would be said for hitting antique malls with the hopes of finding a Wagner card shoved in a case being sold by some hermit that’s lived in a hole for the past 30 years, it’s not going to happen. People know what they have.

You will find two prices at shows today, overpriced and retail.

Yes you can do the same by hitting eBay but much more can come of shows. One sometimes there are goods at shows that don’t hit eBay I spent about 10k at Oaks on stuff a guy had I didn’t even know about. Second meeting people is nice and sometimes you get to hold and see cards that you only see in pictures on eBay.

There is something to be said for holding a Wagner T206 or seeing a super obscure regional issue up close and personal as well as meeting the other collectors who call this hobby home.

Long live the local card show!

Cheers,

John

[danmckee]

I had a gentleman come to my table and grab a zeenut with a coupon. I think I had $550 on it cause I paid $400. I always leave room to haggle on most items.

He said this is worth about $100 why is the price so high

I said you may be correct but I paid too much for it.

Back in the 80s and 90s, zeenuts with coupons were super tough on the East Coast and commanded good money.

I think a few recent finds with the coupons have saturated a few of the zeenut years.

Yes I will probably lose money on this one but I lose sometimes. The idea is to try to win more than you lose in the sales game, that way I can save up a little to buy something neat I like for myself.

I try to carry oddball rare stuff that you won't see on several other tables in the same show. And I enjoy talking to the customers usually.

Oh well, like I said, looks like the Philly area is in trouble for shows.

Dan

[Rich Klein]

I had wanted to rant about this for a while.


http://www.sportscollectorsdaily.com...-for-everyone/

Rich

[wonkaticket]

Nice rant Rich, love it "take a shower"....LOL.

Good stuff.

Cheers,

John

[Jewish-collector]

Nice Rant, Rich.
Let's have a couple cold ones at the National !!!

[barrysloate]

Another thought Rich: dealers should put the meatball hero away when a potential customer is at his table. It's hard to answer a question with food in your mouth.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Jewish-collector

Nice Rant, Rich.
Let's have a couple cold ones at the National !!!

Cold Coca Colas?

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Another thought Rich: dealers should put the meatball hero away when a potential customer is at his table. It's hard to answer a question with food in your mouth.

Barry keep in mind I just paid $34 dollars for that meatball sub because of the show food prices.

So theres a good chance the sub is worth more than the customer will spend and that the meatballs are older than anything on my table.

[barrysloate]

That's an amazingly positive spin on a meatball hero..I always said you were an optimist!

[olrac44]

I went to look at CSA's website for their show schedule. I couldn't find any information on the Oaks, PA show.

Did they eliminate the Oaks, PA show?

If not, does anyone know when the next show is?

Thanks!

[Buythatcard]

I also noticed last night, that the only show on their schedule was the one in Chantilly.

Maybe that's a good thing. This might bring back some life to the Philly show in Valley Forge.

[tedzan]

The Oaks Show is scheduled for November 9 -11.


TED Z

[bbcard1]

There was some talk about continuing or not and I don't know where Marco came down on it. Attendance just hasn't been that good despite large expenditures in advertising...the promote has gone thousands in the hole, I would think. I think you'd have to do a smaller show to be successful given what I have seen out of Philly, and that's probably a template for a local promoter.

[bbcard1]

Officially, it is still up in the air.