For your reading enjoyment

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Posted By: Paul

This was on the PSA boards.

http://reds.enquirer.com/2004/05/23/baseballcard23.html

By chance do you all think this is the card that has been put up for bid with the blue eyes? Just curious.

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

They don't say word ONE about the Honus in their card having blue eyes. Mastro says the "P" is the wrong size.
Why don't they just--oh, collect Planks, or something...

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Posted By: Paul

The only reason I asked was the fact that it said in the article that it had been put up on Ebay a few times in the past and just like in the Ebay article they reference having it looked at by the paper expert. The prices they mention in the article also I think were the same as in the auction listings.

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Posted By: hankron

Paul, it's the same card.

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Posted By: hankron

My sincere question is how do the card's owners differentiate between their card and the hundreds and hundreds of stained and roughed up T206 Honus Wagners that appear on eBay and Yahoo auctions? What is the thought process that has led them to beleive that all those other cards are reprints while theirs is not?

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Posted By: hankron

I'll be honest, I don't think people are that stupid.

If they thought PSA would judge the card as authentic, they would have had that card graded two years ago so they could make their fortune. That they find all these reasons to prevent PSA from offering an opinion, likely reveals their opinion on the card's authenticity.

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Posted By: petecld

I guess they wouldn't allow a clear picture of the card to be taken either to go along with their story.

Are these guys friends of Tom?????.

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

Sorry about the "blue-eyed" Wagner; I guess i just didn't look at it closely enoigh--for some reason...

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Posted By: Joe P.

A Blue - Eyed Wagner.

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Posted By: jay behrens

A lot of his story doesn't jibe. He pays $1800 for a card that he has no idea what it really is until he sees the same card in a David Copperfield magic trick. Why would someone fork over that kind of money for something they knew nothing about? The next baffling thing is, he gets offered $10k when he starts shopping it around, and turnd it down beucase of greed, thinking he can get $20k. So much about this whole story makes no sense.

Jay

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Posted By: hankron

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Posted By: Judge Dred

Maybe some good can come out of this. Either the card is real which would put another Wagner (w/ a tough back) out there or it will bring an awareness that there are no limits when it comes to perpetrating a scam in this hobby, or any hobby for that matter. Just maybe all of those people scanning ebay will figure out that just because someone has a copy of the constitution for sale doesn't mean it's real especially if the item description states that the item was found at the estate sale of a distant relative of Thomas Jefferson who just happened to be the sellers great great grandmother and that although it "appears" to be original it must be sold as a reprint and that all sales are final!

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Posted By: hankron

Having thought this over, I don't know of a legal or legally-binding way this card could be sold for $100,000 or whatever under the present conditions of the owners insisting it's genuine. The doubts (euphamism) of a wide variety of nationally known experts has been published in a major newspaper. At best, the owners are well aware of widespread doubts and at worst they have their own serious doubts. I would think they might be inviting legal problems if they actually did sell it for a million dollars. How a lawyer got mixed up in this and why he doesn't demand that the owners have it looked at by PSA or similar is beyond me.

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Posted By: jay behrens

They are willing to have PSA examine the card, but only under their conditions, which PSA will not give in to. These guys insist upon being present when the card is examined. I did get a kick out of Joe Orlando's explaination about how it needs to be examined without knowing who the owner is. Somehow, I really doubt that if ol' blue eyes did get handled according to standard PSA rules that the graders wouldn't know right away what card they were grading. If companies can do on-site grading, then there is no reason to make an exception for this card, charge them an insane amount to be present during the the exam and end the stupidity once and for all.

Jay

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Posted By: warshawlaw

They won't let the card out of their sight to be graded. If it cannot be graded, it isn't worth anything to anyone. But,if they let the card be graded and it comes back a fake, how much you want to bet that they would claim the grading service replaced their card with something else. If I was a PSA rep dealing wiht these nut jobs, I would never, ever agree to handle their card.

I also love the twisted logic of their supposed paper expert: the absence of titanium dioxide proves it was made prior to the 1920s. Wrong. If titanium dioxide was not used until the 1920's then the PRESENCE of titanium dioxide would strongly suggest that it was made after 1920. The ABSENCE of it merely proves it was made using paper that doesn't have titanium dioxide. It is a logical fallacy: Not x proves y only if y = not x. They assume not x = y, without any proof. Ditto for the printer, whose opinion should be that the item was made using turn of the century technology, not that it was made back then. We don't know when it was made and any conclusion to the contrary on that evidence is wrong. Theoretically, I could make Rembrandt prints today if I had Rembrandt's plates (in fact, there are many 18th-19th century Rembrandt "original" prints that were made with Rembrandt's plates).

The other thing that amazes me is the sheer stupidity of the audience for this sort of crap. Bottom line, it is fake. We all know it, they know it, but they are hoping for someone to step up and bite off anyhow if they can build a sufficient wall of crapola.

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Posted By: hankron

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Posted By: hankron