Show your T206 card(s) that are more scarce than the JOE DOYLE NAT'L card

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by mrvster

That Ames Is INSANE!!

collectors haven't grasped yet the importance of those sweet cap 350-460 factory 30 NO OVERSTAMP!! that back is not possible with that player factory issued!! you got yours just in time......Jim R always stated how important and cool those y/b's sc 460's are.....

PLEASE POST THE IMPOSSIBLE COMBINATION BACK!

Once Chris B posts what we know so far, the will be highly sought after....



hint.....hint..............

Johnny, I think the T206 scrap collectors DO realize the "importance" of these, but I think getting other card collectors to feel the same way is not only going to be difficult, but I don't think you and the other scrap collectors should really want that.

The 'problem' (from your point of view, not mine) is that the T206 issue is the only one where print scraps are considered worth multi-thousands of dollars. And that value is placed by you guys, by bidding against each other. The rest of the collecting world respects the market values that you are establishing and will certainly pay high prices if they think they can re-sell them to you later for a profit, but as far as "importance"…not so much.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by asoriano

Really rare and a great card......thanks for posting it.



TED Z
.

[mrvster]

as the collectors become more advanced and understand the set more , they will become to appreciate these more and desire them more....hence values/ prices will sore....sorry to disappoint you....you should have held onto your scrap ....you literally lost tens of thousands, could see why your a little turned from T206 scrap


I would be to if I let go all my scraps that wound up being 10-15 times what I sold them for!

THANK GOD I HAVEN'T SOLD MINE

I wasn't saying the collectors don't understand in a "bad" way, they just haven't been educated on them yet....we are still discovering more everyday about the production through these gems and clues......with out them, we can't truly understand the set the way we have....


how many t206 collectors realize that ames hand over head is not available factory issued with that back??? probably not a lot, until they reference the

the possible back combo's and see they are possible(unless you include the 6 superprints).....ON t206resource.com

scott, your just jealous cause you lost out big time when you dumped your awesome scrap back in the day........AND TOOK A BATH I'M SURE....I still wish I grabbed some more....ROB is happy


don't hate....

you dumped that overprint downey that I couldn't even try to afford!!

btw....I haven't bid on any cards in a long time ......funds have been tight...

so , I personally know the "thin" scrap market you talk about a few guys running up the prices has expanded through education....



I respect your ground breaking research on the matter, and do respect you, but can't help to set you straight sir..


yes my friend, you must be kicking your self for letting an 8k card go for a song back in the day, or any of the others.....

and now you must hate


embrace that collectors are truly starting to appreciate these gems.....

and...

btw...
to burst your bubble, most sets or issues aren't even close to as popular as the T206 set...





just a matter of time...

c'mon scott.....


respectfully


JOHN VANDERBECK

[asoriano]

Originally Posted by mrvster

how many t206 collectors realize that ames hand over head is not available factory issued with that back???

Learning something new everyday. Very cool!

[mrvster]

I have to say, was not fair of me to "rub salt" in your face, Scott......we have all regretted letting some cool cards go, and that wasn't right...
didn't want to seem like I was gloating in your loss..


was a low blow....I do not mean to kick a man when down....

was not right of me....

the scrap will speak for itself

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by mrvster

I have to say, was not fair of me to "rub salt" in your face, Scott......we have all regretted letting some cool cards go, and that wasn't right...
didn't want to seem like I was gloating in your loss..


was a low blow....I do not mean to kick a man when down....

was not right of me....

the scrap will speak for itself

It's funny that you still aren't willing to give up on that line of thinking and you try it again each time I question the prices being paid for your beloved printer scraps. I sold all of mine at a profit, and used the profit to buy other things, which I again sold at a profit - I'm probably still earning money off of the scraps I sold ten years ago.

Sounds like the regret is on your end, but I won't try to guess what's hurting you so bad other than possibly the inability to obtain all these wonderful cards you keep gloating over?

Just try using logic to explain your thinking - it works better than the proverbial straw man

[mrvster]

you said it right "beloved" scrap......most of the scrap "chasers" I know have been tapped! you can ask them yourself....most of the "players" have stepped aside to let others have at them.(scrap)..

I'm sure you have made some profit, but try to buy downey back...or some others....with these one- of- a- kinds, sometimes money just won't do it

there is a whole new arena of collectors entering the scene who have caught on.......and now desire these true gems...



they will continue to catch on.....

it's kinda of "bitter sweet" for me....

the cards are finally starting to get the recognition they truly deserve

although out of my reach...

not bitter, but happy now I have an incredible collection....regardless of value, I love them!! anyone who truly knows me, knows this is the truth......

am I a crusader?? possibly.....

some call me the "Grand daddy of scrap" "scrap master"....a true "pioneer"...

I know one thing.....card board gold


you might have made profit , but can't bring those back to you...


who is the bitter one??

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by mrvster

you said it right "beloved" scrap......most of the scrap "chasers" I know have been tapped! you can ask them yourself....most of the "players" have stepped aside to let others have at them.(scrap)..

I'm sure you have made some profit, but try to buy downey back...or some others....with these one- of- a- kinds, sometimes money just won't do it

there is a whole new arena of collectors entering the scene who have caught on.......and now desire these true gems...



they will continue to catch on.....

it's kinda of "bitter sweet" for me....

the cards are finally starting to get the recognition they truly deserve

although out of my reach...

not bitter, but happy now I have an incredible collection....regardless of value, I love them!! anyone who truly knows me, knows this is the truth......

am I a crusader?? possibly.....

some call me the "Grand daddy of scrap" "scrap master"....a true "pioneer"...

I know one thing.....card board gold

Very well-said Johny.

Originally Posted by mrvster

you might have made profit , but can't bring those back to you...


who is the bitter one??

Uh-oh, there you go again. So are you jealous over my having had cards at one time that you now love? Or is it something else? If it helps you any, I've probably only owned about 15 scraps, but I've owned literally thousands of other cards, as well as thousands of other pieces of sports memorabilia. Am I "bitter" over those items as well? Please give me a list of all of the cards I have owned that I am now bitter over. It doesn't matter much to me, but it might prove to be therapeutic for you. P.S. - stay away from sharp objects while you are creating the list.

[mrvster]

you know those are the ones you truly miss............

thousands of pieces and only a few scraps??? puts it in perspective....

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by mrvster

you know those are the ones you truly miss............

thousands of pieces and only a few scraps??? puts it in perspective....

It really does. I bought a single example of each scrap type, for use in writing an article, while I bought multiple example of other items that I had more of an interest in. Don't get me wrong - I enjoyed my collection of scraps while I had them.

If it makes you feel any better, I can list for you all of the items that I miss, in order. My T206 Jacklitsch proof would make the list, as would my T205 Reulbach scrap and my T206 Reulbach brown Hindu ledger page. Probably also one of the BL460's. Does that help any? Probably odd to you, but my miscut backs didn't do much for me other than earn a good profit when sold. I did like the upside-down Piedmont that was perfectly upside-down, but quite frankly - it looked like a normal card from either side

The item I miss most out of anything I ever sold was my 1909 Pittsburg team supplement that once hung in Wagner's office.

[Bigb13]

Rob loves his Scraps

[tedzan]

OK guys....lets switch this train back onto the mainline tracks.



Only a few of these 3 subjects with CB backs have been graded (less than 5 each).
.





Clymer / CB is equal to Doyle in the number of cards graded.
.



TED Z
.

[mrvster]

sorry 'bout that

this one's for you

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by asoriano

Learning something new everyday. Very cool!

American Lithographic ran thru final press runs of SWEET CAPORAL 460 (Factory #30) cards from the 350/460 series (of which your unique Ames is in). However,
the 57 subjects in this series were never issued with Factory #30 backs.

Circa late 1910 (or early 1911), in anticipation of the ATC divestiture, these SWEET CAP cards were overprinted with Factory #42 (Durham, NC) and shipped there
to be inserted in SWEET CAP cigarette packs.

Here is a Factory #42 overprint which is sufficiently off-set that it reveals the original Factory #30 lettering.


.







TED Z
.

[Runscott]

Sorry for derailing Ted's show

[tedzan]

No problem......"rail-on" all you want....it's entertaining



TED Z
.

[mrvster]

thanks for illustrating...........

I'm dying for Chris to release some of his research in this error scrap back...

then you will see guys trying to "re assemble" the sheet....using these scrap pieces as puzzle pieces!

it's awesome shit!

these sc 460 no overprint scraps will be chased...

I want to put together the subset

Turner just picked up a tiny piece of history!

I'm on 6 of these.....and 1 of them is the only known specimen that I do own...

Mc intyre....

like magee w/ bat, donlin, ect....Chris will elaborate when he is ready

this one goes out to Jim R, Mike S, and Chris for his research help with me

[tedzan]

To date, known examples..........

Only 5 .................................................. ............................................... Only 6
.
.



TED Z
.

[T206Collector]

I'm gonna call 1-of-1 on these signed T206s...

[Runscott]

This Keeler portrait has a pair of parallel horizontal parallel creases running through the top of his hair. I've never seen another example.

[DerekMichael]

The combination itself is not so exciting I suppose, but this card was once owned by former MLB Commissioner Bowie Kuhn.

If I understand correctly, when Kuhn was a child he used to work the scoreboard for the Washington Senators, which was owned by Clark Griffith, and he was given the card as a gift at the time and kept it until he passed away.

Neat-O.

Derek

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by Runscott

This Keeler portrait has a pair of parallel horizontal parallel creases running through the top of his hair. I've never seen another example.

Scott...that's a beauty...you deserve that card!

[tedzan]

Tough red Cobb's......to date, there are:


Less than 6 known





8 known





TED Z
.

[FrankWakefield]

I think these two cards would qualify...

What do you guys think?

[mrvster]

thanks for the cobb # Ted

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by FrankWakefield

I think these two cards would qualify...

What do you guys think?

A really great looking Ty Cobb card. There are less than 8 of them with the American Beauty 460 back.

Also, it appears that your Newt Randall card is unique with the Broad Leaf 350 back. I cannot find another one in any of the TPG's pop reports.


Best regards, my friend.


TED Z
.

[ullmandds]

My only "qualifier" coming soon to an AH near u.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

My only "qualifier" coming soon to an AH near u.

Pronounce that.

[tedzan]

1-of-3 .................................... 1-of-3 .................................... 1-of-2 ..................................... 1-of-2


.



TED Z
.

[wolf441]

Originally Posted by tedzan

OK guys....lets switch this train back onto the mainline tracks.



Only a few of these 3 subjects with CB backs have been graded (less than 5 each).
.





Clymer / CB is equal to Doyle in the number of cards graded.
.



TED Z
.

Wow, I didn't know the Clymer-CB back combo was that rare. Thanks Ted, I can finally show a card!!

[DixieBaseball]

Originally Posted by tedzan

If that is the only reason you have, then please consider this:


American Litho. printed these cards in the Spring/Summer of 1910 on thinner stock because they were not intended to serve as "stiffeners" in cigarette
packs (as the other T206's did). NO standard cigarette pack labelled "COUPON" Cigarettes has been found. I don't expect that one will ever be found.

1910 COUPON cigarettes were marketed in cartons (11" x 3" x 2") labelled "COUPON" Cigarettes that contained 100's of this new brand of cigarettes.

The 1910 COUPON cards were included with (or inside) the carton. A few of these cartons have been found....I have seen one of them.


P.S.
A poll would be meaningless, since there would be many uninformed in this subject voting in it.


TED Z
.

Here's my contribution to this thread : Carton & T206-13 card

[DixieBaseball]

Originally Posted by tedzan

If that is the only reason you have, then please consider this:


American Litho. printed these cards in the Spring/Summer of 1910 on thinner stock because they were not intended to serve as "stiffeners" in cigarette
packs (as the other T206's did). NO standard cigarette pack labelled "COUPON" Cigarettes has been found. I don't expect that one will ever be found.

1910 COUPON cigarettes were marketed in cartons (11" x 3" x 2") labelled "COUPON" Cigarettes that contained 100's of this new brand of cigarettes.

The 1910 COUPON cards were included with (or inside) the carton. A few of these cartons have been found....I have seen one of them.


P.S.
A poll would be meaningless, since there would be many uninformed in this subject voting in it.


TED Z
.

Whoops... Here's another one more rare than Doyle...

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by DixieBaseball

Here's my contribution to this thread : Carton & T206-13 card

Thanks for posting the COUPON Cigarettes carton.

I think that carton is circa 1914....and, maybe associated with T213-2 (or T213-3) cards.

The carton that I saw years ago was very similar to yours; however the brand name was labelled " COUPON " ....which implies circa 1910.
And, I don't recall the Liggett & Myers lettering.


Take care, good buddy.


TED Z
.

[DixieBaseball]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Thanks for posting the COUPON Cigarettes carton.

I think that carton is circa 1914....and, maybe associated with T213-2 (or T213-3) cards.

The carton that I saw years ago was very similar to yours; however the brand name was labelled " COUPON " ....which implies circa 1910.
And, I don't recall the Liggett & Myers lettering.


Take care, good buddy.


TED Z
.

Thanks Ted - . I would love to see the "Coupon" carton that you mentioned. In reading your reply, I am not sure what differentiates my carton and the one one you are talking about... (I have no real opinion either way and certainly not sure of the time frame of this Carton I own, but know its pretty old) Perhaps, the 1910 Carton says... "Coupon Mild" and mine says Coupon Cigarettes??

[tedzan]

I think the tell-tale clue here is the Liggett & Myers label.

I think that L & M manufactured the COUPON brand after ATC's divestiture (circa 1911- 1912).

The 1910 COUPON was strictly an ATC brand.

I will search for a pix of the " COUPON " Cigarettes carton.


TED Z
.

[mrvster]

beauty of an Ellam

lmk if you ever want to trade

[DixieBaseball]

Originally Posted by tedzan

I think the tell-tale clue here is the Liggett & Myers label.

I think that L & M manufactured the COUPON brand after ATC's divestiture (circa 1911- 1912).

The 1910 COUPON was strictly an ATC brand.

I will search for a pix of the " COUPON " Cigarettes carton.


TED Z
.

Ted - That makes some sense. I will take this to email with you, so this thread doesn't get too sidetracked... Is Liggett & Myers on the reverse of any other brands besides 1914 Victory tobacco cards ?

[tedzan]

The break-up of the American Tobacco Co. (May 1911) resulted in the re-assignment of the following brands............


Liggett & Myers was given these cigarette brands:

Piedmont
Fatima
American Beauty
Home Run
Imperiales
Coupon
King Bee
Fatima


P. Lorillard was given these cigarette brands:

Helmar
Egyptian Deities
Turkish Trophies
Murad
Mogul
and,
all straight Turkish brands


American Tobacco Co. retained these cigarette brands:

Pall Mall (its expensive all-Turkish brand, named for a fashionable London street)
Sweet Caporal
Hassan
Mecca



TED Z
.

[t206fix]

You need to write a book! Not joking a bit. Your knowledge of the t206 set is amazing.

[tedzan]

.................................................. 1-of-8 .................................................. .................................. 1-of-2

.


T-Rex TED
.

[mrvster]

Scrap off the chain

[wolf441]

Originally Posted by mrvster

Scrap off the chain

For Ted's benefit, I'll translate:

"That Lundgren scrap is really, really nice!!"

I'm just a guy that relates to all generations!

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by t206fix

You need to write a book! Not joking a bit. Your knowledge of the t206 set is amazing.

I really appreciate the compliment.

I think I have shared most of my T206 knowledge with everyone on this forum since April 2005.

Should I go back 10 years and review all my posts regarding T206's in order to compile a book......perhaps so.

However, I enjoy the free association of thought that we all enjoy on Net54 every day; and, I find that more meaningful.


Take care,

TED Z
.

[mrvster]

Lundgren is FreakN insane

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by mrvster

Scrap off the chain

Originally Posted by mrvster

Lundgren is FreakN insane

I dig you dude


T-Rex TED
.

[tedzan]

.........30 years ago, I acquired my first T206 DRUM card from Barry Sloate.....this Danny Moeller card.

Then, 7 years ago I helped Barry Arnold with his T206 backs sub-set when I sent him this unique T206.

I don't know of another Moeller/DRUM card. Checking out the pop reports of PSA and SGC, you will find
only this one (SGC A).

If anyone on this forum knows of another one, please chime in.







TED Z
.

[ullmandds]

what'd u pay for it Ted????

[tedzan]

Do you really want to know ?


TED Z
.

[wolf441]

Originally Posted by tedzan

.........30 years ago, I acquired my first T206 DRUM card from Barry Sloate.....this Danny Moeller card.

Then, 7 years ago I helped Barry Arnold with his T206 backs sub-set when I sent him this unique T206.

I don't know of another Moeller/DRUM card. Checking out the pop reports of PSA and SGC, you will find
only this one (SGC A).

If anyone on this forum knows of another one, please chime in.







TED Z
.

It makes you wonder exactly how many Drum cards were distributed? Don't you wish someone would stumble across some sort of ATC receipt/printing order? Even for just one back type, it would be incredible to know XXX many cards were produced and now 100+ years later, XXX many cards remain...

[ullmandds]

$5?