Show your T206 card(s) that are more scarce than the JOE DOYLE NAT'L card

[freakhappy]

$5.01


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

$5?

I can never take you serious


Anyhow, here is the story....the entire story. By circa 1985, I had acquired 12 of the T206 backs for my T-brand sub-set. I figured the DRUM was to be
the toughest of the basic 17 brands that I was looking for to complete this run.

Barry Sloate helped me with several tough backs; and, found this Moeller card. DRUM cards (if you could find them) back then were selling for $200 to
$400 (Vg to Ex cards). Barry offered this card to me for $100.

Summer of '08, Toby Peterson emailed me to offer me a Frank Delehanty DRUM card. I needed this card to complete my first "A--B--C--D" connection.









Therefore, I called Barry Arnold, since I knew he needed a DRUM card for his T206 back's run. I let him have this Moeller card for $99.



"That's All Folks"


TED Z
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[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by tedzan

I can never take you serious


Anyhow, here is the story....the entire story. By circa 1985, I had acquired 12 of the T206 backs for my T-brand sub-set. I figured the DRUM was to be
the toughest of the basic 17 brands that I was looking for to complete this run.

Barry Sloate helped me with several tough backs; and, found this Moeller card. DRUM cards (if you could find them) back then were selling for $200 to
$400 (Vg to Ex cards). Barry offered this card to me for $100.

Summer of '08, Toby Peterson emailed me to offer me a Frank Delehanty DRUM card. I needed this card to complete my first "A--B--C--D" connection.









Therefore, I called Barry Arnold, since I knew he needed a DRUM card for his T206 back's run. I let him have this Moeller card for $99.



"That's All Folks"


TED Z
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Ted...I WAS serious!!!!!!! 30 yrs ago? why not only $5????? After I guessed $5 I was thinking maybe u got it in a lot for even less???

I picked up my only drum...now long gone at a silver spring armory show around 1992 for $37. The Solly Hofman that Chris B used to own.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Ted...I WAS serious!!!!!!! 30 yrs ago? why not only $5????? After I guessed $5 I was thinking maybe u got it in a lot for even less???

I picked up my only drum...now long gone at a silver spring armory show around 1992 for $37. The Solly Hofman that Chris B used to own.

OK, you paid $37 for your Hofman.....of which there are 2 graded, and a possible 3rd exists (as, it's been rumored).

I paid $100 for Moeller.....and, only one exists.

Therefore, if this stuff is a linear factor, since my DRUM is 3 times more rare than your Hofman.....our purchase prices are equivalent.

Anyhow, that's how my engineering mind sees this


TED Z
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[barrysloate]

Ted is able to remember how much he paid for a card thirty years ago. I can't, although I vaguely remember that Drum because of the missing corner.

One thing I do remember well is buying a modest collection of T206 from a family and finding two Drums in the group. That floored me. But don't ask who the two players were.

[Bieg]

Do you mean there are only 3 of these known or 3 in YOUR collection?

You have to excuse me I am new at this and just trying to understand the million different intricacies of these T206s

T206 Delehanty, Frank - American Beauty Back-001.jpg

Originally Posted by tedzan

1-of-3 .................................... 1-of-3 .................................... 1-of-2 ..................................... 1-of-2


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TED Z
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[mrvster]

now you guys figured out how to really enjoy them! kudos!

[Bieg]

I am more confused than ever.

Originally Posted by mrvster

now you guys figured out how to really enjoy them! kudos!

[mrvster]

by enjoying the cards and sharing scans and interest with other collectors like us

that's the beauty of them...............

[Bieg]

My wife, whose collection these are from, loves looking at the cards and then reading about each player especially from the book "The Glory Of Their Times" which recounts many stories as told by the actual players themselves.

Originally Posted by mrvster

by enjoying the cards and sharing scans and interest with other collectors like us

that's the beauty of them...............

[ullmandds]

does your wife have a single sister who likes baseball?

[Bieg]

Sorry no.

Originally Posted by ullmandds

does your wife have a single sister who likes baseball?

[Bieg]

She even loves watching Formula 1 and BBC Top Gear with me, as a matter of fact Top Gear is her favorite show! I am a Gear Head and racing fanatic as much as you guys are fanatical about these cards so I am in heaven!

Originally Posted by ullmandds

does your wife have a single sister who likes baseball?

[ullmandds]

dammit! many of us fancy cars too!

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Bieg

Do you mean there are only 3 of these known or 3 in YOUR collection?

You have to excuse me I am new at this and just trying to understand the million different intricacies of these T206s

Attachment 176370

Originally Posted by Bieg

My wife, whose collection these are from, loves looking at the cards and then reading about each player especially from the book "The Glory Of Their Times" which recounts many stories as told by the actual players themselves.

There were only 3 known......now with your wife's American Beauty (AB) Frank Delehanty the are 4 known. It's quite a rare T206 card with an AB back.

Tell your wife....her Delehanty card is one of the nicest looking T206 AB cards that I have seen. And, I have seen many AB cards.

Also, since she enjoys reading about these T206 guys, tell her that Frank Delehanty in 1903 (only 20 years old) had the sad task of identifying the body
his brother, "Big Ed" Delehanty, who had died mysteriously at Niagara Falls.


Thanks for posting.


TED Z
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[Bieg]

Wow, so what would that make it worth? Does the rarity of this Delehanty make it worth more than her Cobb Red Portrait AB Back in similar condition?

I assume rarity and condition is not the only factor in determining the value.

Thanks for the help guys.

Originally Posted by tedzan

There were only 3 known......now with your wife's American Beauty (AB) Frank Delehanty the are 4 known. It's quite a rare T206 card with an AB back.

Tell your wife....her Delehanty card is one of the nicest looking T206 AB cards that I have seen. And, I have seen many AB cards.

Also, since she enjoys reading about these T206 guys, tell her that Frank Delehanty in 1903 (only 20 years old) had the sad task of identifying the body
his brother, "Big Ed" Delehanty, who had died mysteriously at Niagara Falls.


Thanks for posting.


TED Z
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[slipk1068]

Originally Posted by tedzan

There were only 3 known......now with your wife's American Beauty (AB) Frank Delehanty the are 4 known. It's quite a rare T206 card with an AB back.

Tell your wife....her Delehanty card is one of the nicest looking T206 AB cards that I have seen. And, I have seen many AB cards.

Also, since she enjoys reading about these T206 guys, tell her that Frank Delehanty in 1903 (only 20 years old) had the sad task of identifying the body
his brother, "Big Ed" Delehanty, who had died mysteriously at Niagara Falls.

Thanks for posting.


TED Z
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I read a great book about that tragic incident a few years back. I wish I remembered the name of it.

Originally Posted by Bieg

Wow, so what would that make it worth? Does the rarity of this Delehanty make it worth more than her Cobb Red Portrait AB Back in similar condition?

I assume rarity and condition is not the only factor in determining the value.

Thanks for the help guys.

I would guess 500? maybe $600 for Delehanty if it is as nice as it looks in the scans. Cobbie would sell for multiples of that number.

Maybe someone else will chime in with their opinion

edit: looking at it again, it is a beautiful card. my numbers may be low.

[Sean]

But a Cobb Red/ AB in similar condition would bring a couple thousand.

[mrvster]

you both are spot on......

the real rarity, as ted will tell you, is some of the AB 460 cards that are "rarer" front back combos....

certain individuals trying to complete a master set may chase the "shorter" printed ones....

Ted z needs just a few to complete, to me, the nearly impossible 460 sub set!

tell us the ab 460s!!! that where the moola is.......not the multi printed(which are tuf to begin with), but the shorter printed ab 460's....that's where a few elite collectors here will tell you where the "hidden" gold is..........


Delahanty.....$500.00 ebay/ $600.00 Goodwin..... maybe

[tedzan]

You're absolutely correct....AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 cards have been under-rated.

Sixty-three of the 75 - AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 cards are very tough to find.

The subjects that I refer to as the Exclusive 12 (460-only Series) are not as difficult to find with AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 backs.


Take care....good friend,

TED Z

__________________________________________________ _____________________________________
LOOKING for these 6 - T206 guys to complete my AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 sub-set (75 cards)

AMES (hands over head)....CAMNITZ (hands over head)....DOYLE (portrait)....McGRAW (portrait-cap)
McQUILLAN (bat)....TINKER (bat off shoulder)
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[tedzan]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Ted is able to remember how much he paid for a card thirty years ago. I can't, although I vaguely remember that Drum because of the missing corner.

One thing I do remember well is buying a modest collection of T206 from a family and finding two Drums in the group. That floored me. But don't ask who the two players were.

Bill Heitman's book "The Monster" (circa 1980) first got me going on T206's. But, you really got me involved in the "nitty-gritty" of the T206 cards by clueing me in,
and providing me some of the tougher front / back combos.

The first one you sold me was this Lundgren / EPDG in 1984 for $ 75. ...................v


.


Regarding the DRUM card....recall that we made a bet in 1985 that it would take me at least a year to acquire a DRUM. Circa Spring 1985, you surprised me when
you told me you had a DRUM card for me. I got quite a chuckle telling you that you lost our bet....by your own doing.

Those early 1980's were great times in this hobby.


TED Z
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[mrvster]

I was just taking my 10 year hiatus............only for a few years(1985-1995 about)......

college, girls, a band, motorcycles.......................not a bad hiatus.........

since then, those things are gone!


but returned to the cardboard hard core and never looked back

[slipk1068]

Originally Posted by mrvster

the nearly impossible 460 sub set!

tell us the ab 460s!!! that where the moola is.......not the multi printed(which are tuf to begin with), but the shorter printed ab 460's....that's where a few elite collectors here will tell you where the "hidden" gold is

Seems like an opportune time to add to this thread my only AB 460.

[mrvster]

i think that one might qualify as a toughie in the ab 460...

I was almost complete the sov 460 set, and this was tough in sov 460...

cammy throw is tough

[barrysloate]

That story I do remember Ted. In the end, the bet wasn't really important.

[tedzan]

Only 5 graded of Davy Jones....and, my ungraded card.

Hey, wasn't this guy the lead singer of The Monkees in the 1960's ?


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TED Z
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[tedzan]

Chase and Chance with LENOX backs are very rare (less than 5 of each).

After a good number of years in Pennsylvania, my blue Chase now has a nice home in Canada.


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Hey guys

There is still lots of room here for your rare T206 cards, so why not post them.


Thanks,

TED Z
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[Bieg]

Here is another ungraded Jones

T206 Jones, Davy - American Beauty Back-001.jpg

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Bieg

Here is another ungraded Jones

Attachment 176751

That is a beautiful tobacco card. Thanks for posting it (as well as thanks to the other members, especially Ted Z., for sharing your cards too)

[MVSNYC]

Thanks to Derek, this is now in my collection.

Ted- do you still own your Chance Lenox?

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by MVSNYC

Thanks to Derek, this is now in my collection.

Ted- do you still own your Chance Lenox?

Sure do.


TED Z
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[MVSNYC]

Very nice! super dark/bold back. bravo.

Hope you're well, my friend.

[slipk1068]

I believe these qualify.

[Bieg]

PSA Says only 5 with the best being EX5

T206 Elberfeld, Kid (Fielding) - American Beauty Back-001.jpg

[MVSNYC]

Bieg- Welcome to the board...please be aware, PSA only started organizing the different brand backs in their pop reports about 5-6 years ago, so there's a huge number of cards listed under "Unkown" that are a variety of rare backs. Meaning, you cannot just look under "American Beauty" Elberfeld, Fielding for the complete number of examples...hence, the T206 pop report is very inaccurate.

[Bieg]

I assume they are only listing cards that they have graded?

[MVSNYC]

Yes, but my point is that prior to 5-6 (or is it 7-8?) years ago, they did not distinguise them by the different backs. So there are a ton of mixed backs under Unkown. You cannot say they've only ever graded 5 of the above card with authority...it's most likely much more, but just generically listed under Unkown.

[FrankWakefield]

Well a fellow can say that the reports show only 3 graded American Beauty cards of a certain white border card, and be accurate as to how many the report indicates have been graded.

I say that while agreeing that some are graded and in slabs that don't indicate what's on the back.

Additionally, some of the slabbed cards have been broken out... some of those remain liberated, some have been regraded.

Point is, it is a not entirely accurate indication...

[Bieg]

OK so how are people determining the rarity of the cards in this thread? Are there other sources beyond the PSA population reports?

[ullmandds]

Many are merely optimistic...this is not an exact science.

[tedzan]

Your point is well taken.

The various TPG's pop reports can be misleading. For example, if I see certain popular cards (i.e., Cobb, Matty, etc.) whose graded numbers are in tight clusters, it
implies re-grading, cross-overs, etc.. Therefore, I'm reluctant to count those numbers as representative of unique cards.


Like your's, the greater majority of the cards in my collection are ungraded. And, I know of at least a dozen long time collectors whose collections are in "raw" form.
I have their inputs on their rare T206 front/back combos, which enter into my numbers

Furthermore, I have data from Scot Reader's extensive T206 surveys which provides an additional input for my numbers.


Take care, my friend

TED Z
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[wolf441]

I think the rarity is all relative to the other cards in the set. All we can really go by are the population reports on PSA, SGC, etc...as well as anecdotal evidence from what we have seen board members post.

The truth is that there may be 5 graded examples listed of a particular front back combo, and another 50 ungraded examples stashed away ungraded in the private collections of long time collectors.

The only thing that we can do is compare rarity in comparison to other cards and say that "x is more plentiful than y" in terms of graded copies and that this should also hold true in the entirety of ungraded cards as well.

The only caveat is if a collector happened to be hoarding a particular back and suddenly released them to market. For example, if a collection of 200 Drum backs were suddenly added to the open market, that would change how we view the relative scarcity of particular backs (i.e., Uzit would most likely then surpass Drum as the rarer back).

Hope this helps.

***Edited to add that Pete and Ted were able to express my thoughts in a much less "long winded" version while I was typing!***

[Bieg]

Thanks for the clarification guys.

[Sean]

Also keep in mind that collectors are much more likely to get important cards graded (Cobb,etc.,or rare backs). A common may be just as plentiful, but we don't get them graded, so they won't show up in the pop reports.

[MVSNYC]

http://www.psacard.com/pop/t206/Index?byback=1&pf=0

Not sure when they revamped their Pop Report pages, but here's the T206 PSA link above...

Am I missing something, or did they eliminate the "Unknown" back pops in this newer chart? I do not think the numbers add up. Take T206 "total population" graded and see individual back numbers below...big gap! the balance is Unknown, before they started breaking them down by back brand...

[edjs]

Ted,

I just picked up a Rucker AB350 unframed. Am I getting close to more scarce than Doyle? I keep looking. Between you and scarce cards and Johnny and Scrap, that's all I can think of! I'll post a scan when it gets delivered.

Ed

[clydepepper]

Originally Posted by GregMitch34

Well, famously, one and only ever created.

http://www.net54baseball.com/attachm...1&d=1420713798

x 3

04 WARNER.jpg

04 BURKE.jpg

04 TAYLOR.jpg

[tedzan]

Getting back to T206's........some great cards seen in this thread that are very scarce. However, I'm surprised that no PIEDMONT 460 Factory 42 cards have been posted.

So, here are some......all of these are scarcer than the Doyle.


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TED Z
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[ValKehl]

Ted, this one is for you!
Val

[tedzan]

Great card....thanks for posting your Johnson.

Take care, my friend


TED Z
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