Is JSA a trustworty company

[Hardspun8]

I was wanting to know if JSA was a trust worthy authentication company for autos. I mostly have PSA.DNA stuff, but have found some JSA items that I do like. Also what are some other trustworthy companies, and what are the ones to stay far away from?

Thanks Adam

[RichardSimon]

I suggest you post this in the autograph forum.

[Hardspun8]

thanks I will move it.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Hardspun8

thanks I will move it.

Only a moderator can move stuff. I can't imagine what it would be like if we opened that up. Holy smokes . Welcome to the forum too, Adam!!

and the thread in the memorabilia section was locked in order to have the discussion in one place, here. thanks

.

[Tradegeek]

There is a lot of debate surrounding JSA and PSA.

The authenticators to COMPLETELY avoid are GA/GAI (anything with Global in the name). They will slap a COA on anything. Which is why they sell for a fraction of the price as anything with a PSA/JSA certificate. Knowledgeable autograph collectors know that anything with a GA/GAI cert is almost certainly fake.

There are now 4 authentication with reasonably good reputations. PSA (the oldest and largest), JSA (Founded by a former PSA authenticator), SGC and Beckett (Beckett took PSA's two top authenticators recently).

Personally, I am not a big fan of any of them. From my experience, PSA and JSA get things right most of the time. But they have made some very embarrassing errors over the years and while they may get things 90% to 95% right, I still won't buy an autograph solely based on their cert. There are also large dealers which seem to have very cozy relationships with both PSA and JSA who get anything authenticated (I have seen illegible scribbles with PSA stickers).

I'm not very familiar with Beckett (they are brand new) and I haven't seen much from SGC. But both are well respected for card grading.

Personally, I put more of an emphasis on who I'm buying the autograph from over which company authenticated it. The exception being when there is a PSA or JSA "witnessed" COA. That means there was a public or private signing and a PSA or JSA rep witnessed the item being signed. Those are rock solid.

I hope this was helpful.

[Hardspun8]

Thanks you for your the information. It will help me build my man cave.

[Forever Young]

Yes they are. They are not perfect but I would suggest JSA and PSA for authentication. There is no way to know for sure if an auto is legit unless you were there. I believe if you buy an item with a psa cert, it is more likely genuine than without it. It also helps protect your investment a bit more.
Bottom line is, do your research before you buy any autograph. If you don't want to do that, buy one with psa or jsa and you will most likely be fine vs any other coa imo. good luck

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Tradegeek

The exception being when there is a PSA or JSA "witnessed" COA. That means there was a public or private signing and a PSA or JSA rep witnessed the item being signed. Those are rock solid.

I hope this was helpful.

That is not necessarily so.
Based on a detailed e mail from Jimmy Spence (when at PSA) to me, Steve Rocchi made a deal with B&J and PSA certed Joe DiMaggio autographs as being in person witnessed. They were not in person witnessed. They were also bogus.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

That is not necessarily so.
Based on a detailed e mail from Jimmy Spence (when at PSA) to me, Steve Rocchi made a deal with a B&J and PSA certed Joe DiMaggio autographs as being in person witnessed. They were not in person witnessed. They were also bogus.

Yep.

And this is one of them.




DiMaggioRocchiForgeryNIP.jpg

[Fuddjcal]

Yea, those Joe DiFakeio's make me puke every time I see them. I have almost always seen them with the "yankee clipper enterprises" sticker and fake letter from that Morris Crookberg guy.....Joe's so called agent/friend???

Anyway you slice it, you need to buy the autograph and not the sticker. All of the authentication companies are prone to mistakes and fraud at some point.

It's the others that never have a real autograph associated to it...The names are just to many to try and list. Moby Dick is shorter these days. Like that Tony Podsada clown has about 10 different ones to support all the FAKES he's been pedaling for at least 30 years that I know of.

[Snapolit1]

I don't buy autographed items. Period. I am sure I could practice Babe Ruth for, oh maybe 2 weeks, and do a really great one. Just sayin.

I've seen autograph experts square off in a court of law on opposite sides of a case, both credentialed up to their eyeballs, both seemingly honest players, completely at odds as to whether a signature is genuine. If two "professionals" with long track records of doing this can't agree I'm dubious about anyone's call.

[Frank A]

If your their friend or have a couple hundred items it will go through. I don't trust them at all.

[Klrdds]

The question of "trustworthiness" is really an open -ended matter of opinion question. I don't think any TPA is deliberately not trustworthy but with the glaringly obvious mistakes that TPAs make I don't trust them any farther than i can throw them; but yet the market is such that many people will not buy an autograph without an LOA from JSA or PSA , whether they have written that LOA for a bad/forged/non-authentic autograph.
I find LOAs give a false sense of security to the buyer ...so trustworthiness is really a matter of opinion.

[1963Topps Set]

The best way to get an really genuine autograph is on a bank check (that has been cancelled by the bank) or a contract.

Even if you were to get an autograph from the person who got it personally, it could be secretarial or manager signed (or clubhouse)

Research is recommended and always be VERY careful, one mistake can be VERY costly.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

I don't buy autographed items. Period. I am sure I could practice Babe Ruth for, oh maybe 2 weeks, and do a really great one. Just sayin.

I sincerely doubt that.
Just sayin',

[Tradegeek]

"That is not necessarily so.
Based on a detailed e mail from Jimmy Spence (when at PSA) to me, Steve Rocchi made a deal with a B&J and PSA certed Joe DiMaggio autographs as being in person witnessed. They were not in person witnessed. They were also bogus."

That is ridiculous, and disappointing. I am very paranoid. Even the item I have with "witnessed" certificates, I have done additional research. As an example, I purchased Bo Jackson autographed bat which came up for a good price. I traced the witnessed COA (and the date on the registry) to a public signing he did in the City of Industry (Frank and Sons) on that date. Which I keep as provenance (because I am concerned that one day people may have zero faith in any of these companies). Combined with a good examination of the autograph, I am very confident it's the real deal.


The primary reason I don't like any of the third party authentication companies is how they have cozy relationships with certain dealers/companies; like your example.

At the end of last year I wanted to buy a Matt Smith (Dr. Who) autograph for my daughter. I ran into this abysmal piece of crap (see attached). The autograph is on a dark area (hard to really look at) and it's a freaking scribble. I could forge that signature with my feet. Yet, PSA slapped a sticker on it. Very high volume seller. If I sent that in, I would guarantee it would be rejected. This is why I won't put much faith in their certs. They are reasonably respected now, but who knows if they will be 10 years from now?

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

I sincerely doubt that.
Just sayin',

I don't know. This dude doesn't look like a Rhodes scholar to me.

http://www.sportscollectorsdaily.com...ls-part-deaux/

[RichardSimon]

I would like to see the fake COA'S. Wonder which company they faked?

[Snapolit1]

PSA.

http://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/26042776-story

[Lordstan]

The one thing I find interesting is that all the place hit were Pawn Shops. I didn't see any actual sports mem dealers. These people are relying on the validity of the certs and not analysis of the sig above a cursory knowledge they might have.
It's the blind faith in certs that helped this criminal succeed for the time he did.

[w7imel]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

I sincerely doubt that.
Just sayin',

+1 Richard, I have tried to sign Ruth Cobb and Mantle for my own entertainment my whole life and cant even come close...lol, not sure 2 weeks is gonna get it...

[Bestdj777]

Originally Posted by w7imel

+1 Richard, I have tried to sign Ruth Cobb and Mantle for my own entertainment my whole life and cant even come close...lol, not sure 2 weeks is gonna get it...

When you get them down, I'd really like a photo of the three of them signed and inscribed to me if possible? Thanks!

[Snapolit1]

Ruth's entire signature is, obviously enough, 8 letters. From a pure forensic point of view, is a remarkably easy signature to fake. Second maybe to Ed Ott. And a lot easier than Arnold Schwarzenegger.
Besides pure fakes, I am also sure for most HOFs there are so many secreterial signatures that by now the vast majority of them have just blended into the mix.

I'll amend my initial comment, which was a little exaggerated. I would never by a single signed ball or card by Ruth or anyone else. I would consider something like a check or official contract of some kind, or maybe something with multiple signatures that can be evaluated. Or something with iron clad provenance. A single signed Ruth ball or photo? Not a chance.

[prewarsports]

Rhodes scholar... Love it!

I am always saying that to my kids when they are hanging out with shady looking kids at school. "Who's the Rhodes Scholar you are hanging out with over there" etc.

Put a smile on my face.

[w7imel]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Ruth's entire signature is, obviously enough, 8 letters. From a pure forensic point of view, is a remarkably easy signature to fake. Second maybe to Ed Ott. And a lot easier than Arnold Schwarzenegger.
Besides pure fakes, I am also sure for most HOFs there are so many secreterial signatures that by now the vast majority of them have just blended into the mix.

I'll amend my initial comment, which was a little exaggerated. I would never by a single signed ball or card by Ruth or anyone else. I would consider something like a check or official contract of some kind, or maybe something with multiple signatures that can be evaluated. Or something with iron clad provenance. A single signed Ruth ball or photo? Not a chance.

I have a Ruth check that im very happy with!! And while his signature looks easy to duplicate its the flow and pressuere point that make it a hard one.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Bestdj777

When you get them down, I'd really like a photo of the three of them signed and inscribed to me if possible? Thanks!

Piece a cake for a certain bunch of scum bags in Pennsylvania.
I am sure if you wrote to them you would get what you wanted.

[Tradegeek]

"The one thing I find interesting is that all the place hit were Pawn Shops. I didn't see any actual sports mem dealers. These people are relying on the validity of the certs and not analysis of the sig above a cursory knowledge they might have.
It's the blind faith in certs that helped this criminal succeed for the time he did."

I think they are hitting up pawn shops because of their lack of knowledge about sports memorabilia prices. Any sports memorabilia dealer would see a MASSIVE red flag if somebody walked in offering a PSA certed Ruth ball for $1,000. The assumption would be that it's either fake or stolen. Either way they'd pass.

[Klrdds]

[QUOTE=Tradegeek;1626714] These people are relying on the validity of the certs and not analysis of the sig above a cursory knowledge they might have.
It's the blind faith in certs that helped this criminal succeed for the time he did."


As we all know Blind Faith in anything is dangerous , but it is a rampant problem in this hobby and I am afraid it will get worse rather than better. I am not being pessimistic but rather honest IMO about the future of this great hobby. TPAs are creating this problem to a major degree with their unbridled and unlimited power and the unfounded belief by the collecting public that any autograph without their approval, tacit or otherwise , is an unmitigated forgery.

[rednecksims]

Remember that at these companies there is not just one authentactor. So the same auto may be looked at by two people at the same company with two different opinions. These services are only an opinion. Unless you personally witnessed the signature and got a DNA sample to ensure it was a double and hopefully he doesn't have a twin.

[theshleps]

or like me twice I submitted an autograph to JSA same autograph and the same person looked at it 2 months apart- 1st time rejected 2nd time accepted- same authenticator same item. Once a vintage player once a modern one. So can't even agree with himself

[earlywynnfan]

JSA is the company I took a low-end auto'd baseball to at a National once. The approximately 22-year old I handed the ball to look at it, puzzled, for a few minutes. I said "It's Gene Conley." He said "Oh," walked to a binder, wrote some stuff down, put a hologram on it, and handed it back to me.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan

JSA is the company I took a low-end auto'd baseball to at a National once. The approximately 22-year old I handed the ball to look at it, puzzled, for a few minutes. I said "It's Gene Conley." He said "Oh," walked to a binder, wrote some stuff down, put a hologram on it, and handed it back to me.

Funny,,,

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by theshleps

or like me twice I submitted an autograph to JSA same autograph and the same person looked at it 2 months apart- 1st time rejected 2nd time accepted- same authenticator same item. Once a vintage player once a modern one. So can't even agree with himself

Michael,
I think you caught them on "schizophrenics day." Best not to do that.

[theshleps]

Rich- you think they'd be smart enough to keep scans of the ones they reject so they can be consistent with themselves. If they change their mind every two months what does that say about their company as to trustworthiness. When guys like you and Jim retire and most of us that have been collecting for decades either sell out or pass the collections down to unknowing relatives, I pity the hobby as there just aren't enough in the under 50 crowd that know enough and the TPA's will be even more of a disgrace. For awhile one company was slabbing wife signed Fabers and rejecting good ones, etc

[Klrdds]

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan

JSA is the company I took a low-end auto'd baseball to at a National once. The approximately 22-year old I handed the ball to look at it, puzzled, for a few minutes. I said "It's Gene Conley." He said "Oh," walked to a binder, wrote some stuff down, put a hologram on it, and handed it back to me.

Thank goodness you didn't take the kid a Cap Anson. He probably would've messed his pants and had to have called home.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Klrdds

Thank goodness you didn't take the kid a Cap Anson. He probably would've messed his pants and had to have called home.

[Gary Dunaier]

There have also been news stories where the reporter got an autograph from a player at a show, took it to the authentication booth at the very same show, and the autograph was rejected as being fake.