Unique T206 Cobb?

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Posted By: Josh K.

I recently won this T206 Cobb bat on pose. Obviously the card has been miscut, the interesting thing about the miscut is that the card on top was also a T206 Ty Cobb. Has anyone seen another Cobb with a similar miscut with Ty Cobb's name on the top and bottom of the card (or were sheets typically printed with players in a row making s/t like this not that uncommon)? Does anyone think that, despite it being miscut, this adds anything to the value of the card?

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Posted By: jay behrens

it's a standard miscut. CArds appear to have been placed on sheets in vertical rows, so seeing a name twice on a card is not unusual. As to added value, I have no clue about that.

Jay

I've just reached Upper Lower Class. I am now officially a babe magnet for poor chicks.

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Posted By: Greg Ecklund

I would think it hurts the value of the card, unless there was a Cobb fanatic out there that found it interesting. Someone putting together a T206 set would likely pay much less for a miscut card, especially for one of the key cards in the set.

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Posted By: robert a

hey josh.
I have a red portrait with two names on my website: www.imageevent.com/caramelcard

The really interesting examples like these are when the name on the top is different. Yours is pretty common, but still cool.
By the way, that cobb looks pretty darn nice...is there back damage there?
robert a

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Posted By: Josh K.

Hey Robert -

No back damage to this one at all (Ive listed another in the b/s/t thread that is also a GAI 2 and has some back damage). Other than the miscut (and the scan doesnt do the card enough justice) this card is very very nice (IMO). My best guess is it would be a 4 if not for the miscut (and if the corners were a bit nicer, maybe a 5).

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Posted By: john/z28jd

Actually there are plenty of collectors who pay a premium for cards miscut like that but due to the player on the card and the value already its unlikely it would go for much more than any other 2.

There are people putting together sets of error cards,trying to get some kind of error for each player. I would rather have your card than a vg one thats well centered,but then again there are plenty of people who dont like the miscuts when they put a set together.

I would say if you put up a 2 with 50/50 centering and this one at the same time,you would get the same price for both,just the bidding would be done by different people.

Basically its like having a tough card with a semi-tough back,usually the back will add a small premium but not much in that case because the cards already expensive

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Posted By: robert a

Should probably post this in a different thread, but does anybody have miscut cards that have DIFFERENT NAMES appearing on the top from any issue including t206?

robert a

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Posted By: john/z28jd

Ive seen a couple t206s with different names up top but dont personally have any.I have a T213 Chief Wilson with Germany Schaeffer's name up top tho

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Posted By: Greg Ecklund

Calling a miscut an error seems to be stretching the definition, but I guess that's what makes the world go round....different people like different things.

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Posted By: john/z28jd

I dont think calling a miscut an error is a stretch because they made an error in cutting it.It wouldve had to have been planned to have 2 names for it not to be an error and then it wouldnt have been miscut in the first place.

Besides its much easier to say error and have it cover all types of cards that fall into that class.Im not going to type out miscut,overprint,color shift,printers scrap,missing color etc everytime i want to say what a person might collect.They all fall under the class of "error",and thats how they are commonly referred to by the people who collect them.

Seeing as im a person who collects them and i frequently speak with others who do as well i can safely say that error card is the accepted term for it

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Posted By: pete in MN

I respect your collecting of "error" types as a legitimate niche in the hobby...but...I have to agree with Greg. Cards such as these have always been somewhat undesireable in my lifetime of collecting. It is a recent phenomenon...with the booms...that these cards are now being touted as one of a kind and rare errors. Genetic disorders are rare errors but I wouldn't want one!

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Posted By: Greg Ecklund

To me, an error card would involve some mistake made in the process of putting a card together rather than in the process of printing and cutting the card. For example, the "Magie" and "Magee" T206 cards would be a legitimate error to me, as would the infamous (at the time) 1989 Upper Deck reversed negative of Dale Murphy.

I see on T206Museum.com that a badly miscut Howie Camnitz just sold for $1715, so clearly there are plenty of people that strongly disagree with me, but to me that card is a curiosity or printer's scrap and would be worth much less to me than a regular Camnitz. When I was younger and ripping open Donruss and Fleer packs, we would always be disappointed if we got a card that was half Kent Hrbek and half Kent Tekulve because those cards were widely considered printers scrap and worthless...I can't apply a different standard to a T206 just because it is much older.

The "ghost overprints" and "ink missing" variations don't make much sense to me either, but I could make a better case for those being errors than I could for a miscut card being one - they still don't fit my personal definition though.

Understand that I'm not trying to denigrate anyone that collects miscuts, overprints, or the like, it is just something that we have different views on.

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Posted By: john/z28jd

I dont know how recent you mean,but i know 5 years ago i was offered ridiculous money for a particular miscut and i was told by another well-known t206 collector at the time he paid the same price i was offered 2 years prior.

You can think whatever you want obviously but certain t206 "errors" are going thru the roof now and there are alot of collectors out there that only collect cards that have some sort of problem.Theres a person who frequents the board that is trying to put together a set of only oversized cards and he pays high prices for them.The reason he pays high prices is because hes not the only person who collects them,hes just to most prevelent.

The fact that more than a few people are trying to put together a set of only errors means these prices arent going to be going down anytime soon.Ive also noticed alot of new bidders with deep pockets who arent helping the prices stay reasonable.Ive seen the prices steadily rise on them and the more that go into personal collections the higher the prices will probably go

I bought a t206 miscut back at fort washington this month for $7 and with the price tag still on the platic holder just 2 hours later i was offered $175 for it.If i didnt collect them myself that wouldve been a nice % profit i couldve made on it

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Posted By: john/z28jd

To answer Greg,i think you are just talking semantics here.Its a phrase used to group all of the problems together instead of actually saying all of them seperately.

Its like saying i collect baseball cards and 19th century cabinet cards and helmar stamps and juju drums and sweet caporal pins as opposed to saying i collect baseball cards.Technically they arent what you consider cards but if you told most people you collect cards and then you showed them some of those along with actual cards they wouldnt question that you included them as part of your "card collection"


Why would someone actually say i collect miscuts,overprints,printers scrap,missing color and oversized cards and errors when they can say im an error collector, and people would know what youre talking about?

Thats the best i can explain it.People who collect these cards are error collectors unless they collect just one specific problem

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Posted By: Josh K.

I guess I should defend my new card a bit - equating this cobb to printers scrap is a bit exaggerated in my opinion. If you consider the card itself and not the slight miscut, the card is quite nice. Its still decently centered despite the miscut and the picture of cobb itself is one of the nicest Ive seen and equals those that Ive seen in much higher grades. I dont specifically collect "error" cards and that had nothing to do with my decision to purchase this card. I bought it because I felt like I could get the equivilent of a much higher graded card at a lower price due to the technical grade on the slab (which, of course, is due to the miscut).

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Posted By: Judge Dred

Josh,

I'd be happy to take that printers scrap off your hands so long as it comes with the printers scrap discount. Nice card. Call it somewhat unique. The fact that it's Cobb makes it intriguing.

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Posted By: Greg Ecklund

Josh,
Nobody was equating your Cobb to printers scrap...the card that I was referring to when I made the comment was a Howie Camnitz card that sold for $1715, pictured here:

http://www.t206museum.com/page/periodical_44.html

A very slight miscut like your Cobb clearly doesn't fit that definition.

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Posted By: Josh K.

Gotcha - I need to fine tune my reading comprehension every now and then:) (I wrongly assumed, based on your example, that you considered all miscuts equivilent to printers scrap).

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Posted By: petecld

What size is this card?

QUICK NOTE: When cards are cut to size from their sheets they aren't cut one sheet at a time, they are cut in stacks of sheets.

IF the card measures the standard T206 size then the unique look of this card didn't come from bad cutting it came from the fact that the one sheet of cards was not aligned or stacked properly with the other sheets it was cut with. ONLY if the card or any card for that matter is grossly over sized or under sized would it be a miscut.

If the card measures the regualr size then it is simply o/c...WAY o/c yes but not a miscut. The extant of the poor centering makes it "look" like a miscut.

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Posted By: Josh K.

Pete,

I have not measured the card - but eyeballing it next to my other T206's, it appears to be standard size. Do you think it matters whether its labeled a miscut or off centered - in otherwords, is one more "desireable" than the other or are we talking six of one and a half dozen of another?

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Posted By: john/z28jd

Actually most collectors of these "error" cards dont refer to it as either miscut or o/c....because it has all of 2 names on it the technical scientific term we use is a 2 name card,or for people who speak latin a double name card.If you were going to list it for sale id go with the standard listing title of

t206 Ty Cobb bat on double name GAI 2

by seperating the 2 from the gai you might get someone who mightve missed it otherwise

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Posted By: petecld

If if measures the standard size it ISN'T a miscut. As John said it is an error, just not a miscut. I don't put any premium on these types of these things even though I think they are interesting so I couldn't tell you if calling it an "error" or a "miscut" would bring a different price.

To my understanding grading companies won't grade true "miscut" cards but they will grade poorly centered cards.

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Posted By: Dave

Here's an Evers T206 that has similar cutting:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5176386826&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

I have a few similar cards with at least portions of two names. All of these have the same name, though I have heard of cards with different names top and bottom. I think two different names is much more uncommon.

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Posted By: Josh K.

Its pretty clear that the same name on top is the norm rather than the exception. Now Im just going to have to pretend that the card on top was a cobb red portrait with Ty Cobb back - which I now own .1% of. ; )

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Posted By: john/z28jd

I wouldve liked to have seen that Evers auction before it ended.I have the Tinker with no name,and the Chance with a missing color,his face is totally pale on the card,plus i have another Chance with 2 names.That Evers wouldve been a nice one to add to it....maybe the high bidder will sell me that card?

I could have a whole Tinkers-Evers-Chance display with some kind of flaws on each one