Seller: "Ill just keep it" tactics in negotiation

[tschock]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Yeah, and there are 524 cards in the T206 set. End of discussion.

(This is a discussion forum).

Exactly! (as opposed to a p*ss and moan forum)

My only point was around a number of previous 'assumptions' as to why people say the things they do. "I'll just keep it" could mean anything from a very polite "No thanks" to a not quite as polite "F*ck off!"

And the entire OP that spawned this was based on 'assumptions'. But there was also the "let the arguments begin" ending, which may have been the entire purpose all along. (again, another assumption)

Edit: To clarify, I totally understand the need to vent though, which is what this thread basically seems to be.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by tschock

Exactly! (as opposed to a p*ss and moan forum)

I've found that often when someone disagrees with me, I am "pissing and moaning". If they agree with me, I am an enlightened cardboard expert. "Discussion" involves both sides, so I think it's fine for you to "piss and moan" about the OP.

[drcy]

My favorite story of not going by someone else's rules is my mom grew up in a fishing village populated with salty fishermen and one of the old fishermen was filling out his taxes. The tax form had a box that said at top 'Do not write in this space,' and he wrote in it "I'll write wherever I damn well please!"

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Can't we all just get along.

[lug-nut]

Originally Posted by I Only Smoke 4 the Cards

Can't we all just get along.

no! apparently not...

however, this thread isn't nearly as bad as i have seen in the past...it bugged me enough to stay away for a bit. it's been good of late

[Runscott]

I don't see anything wrong with the thread. The OP whined a little and a few people told him he shouldn't. It happens all the time.

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

When it comes to wheeling and dealing I have encountered many approaches. Some more effective than others. The single trait that permeated all of the ones that worked for, and against, me was respect. Maybe it's just me but I find that things go more smoothly (and the price is usually more favorable) if I treat the opposing party with respect and give him the basic assumption that he knows his stuff. Likewise I expect people to give the same assumption to me.

[tschock]

Originally Posted by Runscott

I've found that often when someone disagrees with me, I am "pissing and moaning". If they agree with me, I am an enlightened cardboard expert. "Discussion" involves both sides, so I think it's fine for you to "piss and moan" about the OP.

Not sure how anything I've said was disagreeing with you. I wasn't, or at least that wasn't the intent. I was simply trying to clarify my point. The piss and moan comment wasn't directed at you. It was a comment at the general tone of this thread. My apologies if you took it that way.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by tschock

Not sure how anything I've said was disagreeing with you. I wasn't, or at least that wasn't the intent. I was simply trying to clarify my point. The piss and moan comment wasn't directed at you. It was a comment at the general tone of this thread. My apologies if you took it that way.

I wasn't talking about you - it was a general comment about people who are accused of "pissing and moaning" and why I think that happens. And I totally understand who your comment was directed at - I didn't take it as directed at me, nor did I indicate that I did, but perhaps the straw man you've built did.

I think you've accomplished what you intended to. I bit. I'm sorry I did. I'll put your hook and worm back in the water now, and let someone else go after it.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by pbspelly

What do you think about when someone has a card and is not interested in selling it and another member asks about it but gets no response? I've had this happen a few times, where I knew another member had a card I was looking for. I sent a message asking if they were interested in selling it and they just ignored my query. No response at all. But they keep posting comments on other threads so I know they're around. Seems kind of inconsiderate.

Could be any of a number of things:

--Rudeness. If you are being ignored by another member.
--Missed email. I get a hundred 'legit' spams a day [not counting the offers for fake rolexes and penis pills] from several AH's, TPG's and eBay. I often miss stuff.
--Read and forgot. This happens to me sometimes when I check a PM here on the fly but don't have the chance to respond. It then doesn't 'ping' me when I sign back in.
--Rubbed me the wrong way. Rare, but happens sometimes when a person just can't help but be obnoxious.

So, was the offender me?

[slidekellyslide]

Personally I find it fascinating that what seemed to me to be a rhetorical question has already gotten 50+ responses.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Could be any of a number of things:

--Read and forgot. This happens to me sometimes when I check a PM here on the fly but don't have the chance to respond. It then doesn't 'ping' me when I sign back in.

So, was the offender me?

Yeah, that's me too. I've had a guy email me about a T210 a couple times and I forgot to respond both times. I'm not sure he's on here, since it's regular email and he saw it on SGC. And once something is a few hundred emails back I usually don't go looking for it unless it's really important - to me.

Steve B

[steve B]

To me that's really cool.

My mother is also pretty tough to deal with at yard sales or flea markets. One time I got back from shopping the flea market and she told me to go shop some more. when I asked why she mentioned the card vultures who were hovering at the end of the row waiting for me to leave. They figured on taking advantage of the old lady while I was gone. Bad bad choice. I had stuff marked at catalog price, and had given her the list of the 3-4 cards I wouldn't take less for. The rest I said she could sell for whatever she could get. Which turned out to be around 90% of high Beckett. I almost felt bad.

Steve B

Originally Posted by drcy

7) If you are rude to my mother or other customers at her garage sale, she will refuse to sell you anything at any price. She'll throw the stuff away before she sells to you. It has nothing to do with money or market value. At that point, trying to make those arguments with her is pointless. And before you try and be tricky and lowball her, realize that my mother is always this far (my index finger 1/4th inch in front of thumb) from giving the stuff to charity, so if sellers are rude or unreasonable or offers are low she will give the stuff away to charity. Often times she's having the garage sale to raise money for a charity.

And I can promise you that if you say to my mom "You have to sell it at market value," she will say "I don't have to do anything. It's mine."

My dad had a colleague who once asked him in the hallway if he was going to that afternoon's departmental meeting and my dad said he wasn't. The colleague asked why not and my dad said "Because I don't want to." The uptight follow rules and order colleague couldn't even fathom that as a reason for not going. "Not wanting to" as a reason fell outside his logic system. This story comes to mind when people state 'written in stone' rules such as "You have to sell at market price. That's the rule." My dad would respond "There are options other than selling at market price. One is to go to lunch. Another is to take a nap."

[rats60]

Originally Posted by egbeachley

I disagree, that has nothing to so with its worth.

Sure it does. If a seller would rather have his card than what you offer, the card is worth more than what you offer. Why does an exchange have to take place to determine a card's worth? You say a card is only worth what someone is willing to pay, well what if its current owner is willing to pay more for the card than anyone else (not sell it at your low offer)?

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by rats60

Sure it does. If a seller would rather have his card than what you offer, the card is worth more than what you offer. Why does an exchange have to take place to determine a card's worth? You say a card is only worth what someone is willing to pay, well what if its current owner is willing to pay more for the card than anyone else (not sell it at your low offer)?

+1. It is called replacement costs. If the seller would have a hard time rebuying the card for what it sold for, then the low offer IS NOT the market value. It is just someone making a low offer and hoping the seller will sell.

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

I posted a link to the endowment effect. This seems on point.

[pbspelly]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Could be any of a number of things:

--Rudeness. If you are being ignored by another member.
--Missed email. I get a hundred 'legit' spams a day [not counting the offers for fake rolexes and penis pills] from several AH's, TPG's and eBay. I often miss stuff.
--Read and forgot. This happens to me sometimes when I check a PM here on the fly but don't have the chance to respond. It then doesn't 'ping' me when I sign back in.
--Rubbed me the wrong way. Rare, but happens sometimes when a person just can't help but be obnoxious.

So, was the offender me?

I don't think it was you. I don't remember who it was. I've had it happen a few times.

[1952boyntoncollector]

you assume the buyer is rude and asking for market price...or is trying to get an item from a personal collection..or seller has to sell at market price..i never asked any of those things...

i just talking about the scenerio where a seller is ACTIVELY trying to sell a card..and is upset with an offer from a buyer.....i just dont think the seller can be upset when the buyer is offering market value...if the buyer has the highest offer out there for the period of time that an item typically sells for...and the seller says he will just keep it....im fine with that..

the.seller can do what he wants with the card but he cant argue that the buyer did not offer market value or at the very least , made an offer that you cant consider a 'low ball' when its the highest 'market value' the seller has received and that its not like the seller has an alternative to sell it for more so only responds 'ill just keep it'.

thus i would argue that seller wasnt planning to sell at the going market price..maybe the seller made a mistake as to what the perceived market price....but it is what it is...'ill just keep it' means not willing to sell at market price....

[glchen]

A seller may be ACTIVELY trying to sell a card, but it does not mean it's a firesale where he HAS to sell it. Therefore, if he thinks the buyer is still trying to lowball him and the seller believes he can get a better price elsewhere, he'll just do that, and tell the buyer accordingly. It's like the ebay Global Selling Program. Sure, sellers can probably sell more of their stuff if they sold overseas and to Canada. That means more money, and what they should do if they want sell their stuff, right? However, a lot of sellers simply don't want to deal with the hassle and pain that may come with a troubled sale. It's the same thing with sale negotiations. If a seller thinks that this sale is more trouble than it's worth, they'll just say forget it. My time is worth more than this.

And again the seller and buyer may have very real differences in what perceived market value is for an item. A buyer may look at the last sale in that grade. However, the seller may think that listing was listed poorly, the card had poor eye appeal for the grade, etc. There are many different factors involved. In the end, when the seller says to the buyer that he'll just keep the card, he may in essence be telling the buyer, go try to find this card in this condition for the price you are looking for. It's not going to be as easy as you think. At that point, the buyer needs to consider whether it's better to just take his money elsewhere or if the seller does have a point there.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

you assume the buyer is rude and asking for market price...or is trying to get an item from a personal collection..or seller has to sell at market price..i never asked any of those things...

i just talking about the scenerio where a seller is ACTIVELY trying to sell a card..and is upset with an offer from a buyer.....i just dont think the seller can be upset when the buyer is offering market value...if the buyer has the highest offer out there for the period of time that an item typically sells for...and the seller says he will just keep it....im fine with that..

the.seller can do what he wants with the card but he cant argue that the buyer did not offer market value or at the very least , made an offer that you cant consider a 'low ball' when its the highest 'market value' the seller has received and that its not like the seller has an alternative to sell it for more so only responds 'ill just keep it'.

thus i would argue that seller wasnt planning to sell at the going market price..maybe the seller made a mistake as to what the perceived market price....but it is what it is...'ill just keep it' means not willing to sell at market price....

Your conclusion that market price = your price has already been amply discussed elsewhere in this thread and doesn't need a rehash. This latest post, however, assumes a great deal about the seller's mindset and other dealings with other buyers, and is suspect as a result. Remember, when you assume something about me you are likely to make an "ass" out of both "u" and "me".

[thecatspajamas]

Dude, she doesn't love you any more. Deal with it and move on.

[Runscott]

Nice one Lance.

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