Congratulations to Red Sox Empire

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Posted By: Ryan Christoff

As someone who has not been shy about his hatred of the Boston Red Sox, I am surprised to find how unsuicidal I am after having them win the World Series in my backyard. Only one thing could have possibly lessened this blow, and the rumor of it was announced during the game tonight by Ken Rosenthal.

Could it be possible that a day where the Boston Red Sox won the World Series might also be one of the greatest days in New York Yankees history? Yes!!! If it is true that Alex Rodriguez has opted out of his contract. Especially if Cashman and the rest of the Yankee brass keep their word about refusing to even negotiate with him if he opts out. This means that beginning in 2008, the Yankees actually have a shot at winning another championship. I would prefer to see 2008 be a foundation-building season to set up another Yankee dynasty built from within, but that doesn’t mean they can’t still win it.

I can only hope the Red Sox let Mike Lowell go (so they Yankees can sign him) and sign A-Rod to a long-term deal. That is the only thing that can break up the Red Sox dynasty that is upon us. Otherwise, it is here to stay. Before this season started they were the best team in baseball and they remain that to this day.

Another reason this Red Sox victory isn’t as painful as I thought it would be is the fact that the make-up of the 2007 team is not as easy to hate as some Red Sox teams of yesteryear. Don’t get me wrong, I still hate the Red Sox, but I realize that they are becoming easier to hate for the general population, in spite of my feelings about some parts of the organization like:

Mike Lowell – classy player and person, plays the game right.
Jacoby Ellsbury – top notch human, gritty yet flashy player, interesting background, humble in a very un-Red Sox like way (he could never have been an annoying Red Sox fan if he didn’t play for them)
David Ortiz – still the clutchest (yes, clutchest) player I’ve seen in my lifetime. Hard to dislike
Theo Epstein – best GM in the game, in my opinion. And yes, I’m familiar with the Athletics.

There are still many hate-provoking things about this team, there are just less of them:

There is still Curt Schilling, but there is now Josh Beckett who has no fake bloody sock and takes much National attention Shilling lives for away from him. I dislike many of the things Beckett has done and continues to do (beat the Yankees, win games for the Red Sox, etc.) but it’s hard to have anything but respect for him as a player. On the other hand, I hate no player in all of sports as much as I hate Curt Schilling, and he’ll be gone soon, if not already.

There is the cocky rat, Dustin Pedroia, who I find very dislikeable. But it’s hard not to be impressed by how much he gets out of how little he has physically.

There is the Yankee-like signing of an overpaid, underproducing starting pitcher in Daisuke Matsuzaka, but there is also Hideki Okajima. How can you dislike a guy who throws strikes while looking at the ground in front of 3rd base?

There is still Manny Ramirez, but he is still as funny as ever to watch play every aspect of the game. Except for his hitting, which I find no humor in at all.

They are still the Red Sox, but there are no cowboys or idiots (except for Papelbon) and they don’t pretend they are some blue-collar team of the people.

But what I love the most and what the general public will come to hate is that THE BOSTON RED SOX ARE THE NEW EVIL EMPIRE!!! They are no longer underdogs. Red Sox fans are now entirely without an identity. Winners? The Red Sox are now winners, it’s true. But what about the average Red Sox fan? Can a Red Sox fan exist without feeling it’s him against the world? We’ll see.

The 2007 Boston Red Sox World Series victory is the most expensive championship in the history of baseball at $143 million. Number two on that list? The 2004 Boston Red Sox. So now that the Red Sox have BOUGHT the two most expensive championships in the history of baseball, they have solidified their status as THE NEW EVIL EMPIRE. Therefore, all of the following statements are now true. All of them were originally made by Red Sox fans describing Yankee fans:

Rooting for the Red Sox is like rooting for Bill Gates to win the lotto.
Rooting for the Red Sox is like rooting for the house in black jack.
Rooting for the Red Sox is like rooting for Brad Pitt to get the girl.
Rooting for the Red Sox is like rooting for Goliath over David.
Rooting for the Red Sox is like rooting for Wal-Mart.
Rooting for the Red Sox is like rooting for Enron.
Rooting for the Red Sox is like rooting for the rich, spoiled boss's son against the blue-collar orphan who worked his way through school.
Rooting for the Red Sox is like rooting for the tornado against the family in the trailer park.
Rooting for the Red Sox is like rooting for the British Empire to capture George Washington and execute him for treason.
Rooting for the Red Sox is like rooting for the rich, preppy kid who invariably treated his girlfriend badly in those 80's movies.

There are many, many others (General Motors, U.S. Steel, the lions vs. the Christians, Germany vs. Poland, etc.) which are all now appropriate, all originating from Red Sox fans, themselves.

So congratulations to Red Sox Empire, formerly known as Red Sox Nation. And congratulations to baseball fans everywhere who never have to listen to a Red Sox fan whine about another team trying to “buy” a championship again. I guess in a way, the Red Sox victory is really a victory for everyone.

Even poor, oppressed and cursed Yankee fans, like me.

-Ryan

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Posted By: Bob

The 2007 Boston Red Sox World Series victory is the most expensive championship in the history of baseball at $143 million. Number two on that list? The 2004 Boston Red Sox. So now that the Red Sox have BOUGHT the two most expensive championships in the history of baseball, they have solidified their status as THE NEW EVIL EMPIRE. >>>

This is exactly why you should root for the Twins or A's to get in the World Series and play the Brewers or D-Backs.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

And the 2007 New York Yankees are the most expensive losers in the history of baseball.

I pray the Red Sox re-sign Lowell and don't even think about signing arod. Arod is a great player, but there must be something about him that destroys team chemistry. Every team he plays for loses and when he's gone they suddenly get better. I have to think that Arod is headed for the Angels...they can afford him...he'll be out of the media spotlight, but he'll still be in a big city, and they're not a bottom feeding team like the Devil Rays.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Yes, root for the Twins and A's...two cheapskate teams who deal away all their great players once they become free agents.

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Posted By: Mike

Yeah he kills team chemistry because all he cares about are his personal stats. There was a story about him when he first left the Rangers and all the young guys on the Rangers said that he was obsessed with his own stats and even went as far as to knock players who didn't pay close attention to their personal stats. As has been proven time and time again baseball is a TEAM sport and as long as Arod continues to care more about his pocket and his personal stats any team he is on will never win.

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Posted By: anthony

huge red sox and angels fan but if either team picks up a-rod...i might take a backseat to being a huge fan...might have to look for another team.

but if the red sox stick to their theory of not signing anyone past the age of 35, a-rod would only get a 3 yr deal...thats the reason supposedly lowell may not get to stay a redsox

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Posted By: Paul Grubor

Would I love to see Arod on the Milwaukee Brewers. He would be back at SS and we could put JJ in left field. Imagine this lineup: Weeks, Hardy, Arod, Fielder, Braun, Hart, Jenkins or Hall, (the catcher??) and the pitcher. With a very good young staff and a healthy Ben Sheets we would win it all!

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Posted By: barrysloate

The Red Sox have a great core of young players and I think they will be a team to reckon with for years to come.

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Posted By: James Feagin

As an Orioles fan, I might at well go to sleep, wake up in 10 years, and go back to sleep.

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Posted By: JK

If the Brewers paid for Arod, they wouldnt have any money to pay Braun, Weeks, Fielder and the others.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

There aren't really many places for ARod to go: Angels, Cubs, Mets (never happen) and the Sox (never happen). Sad that a guy who will end up being perhaps the greatest player on paper will have a nomadic career in which chasing the dollar was his most significant concern.

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Posted By: barrysloate

He already has a lot of dollars. I suspect he doesn't want to play for the Yankees any more.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

As a Yankee fan, I was ardently rooting for the Rockies; but, the logical BB side of me knew it'd be Boston because of Jason Varitek.
Over the years, given two equally talented teams in the World Series, the common denominator as to who will win, is the CATCHER.
A star Catcher is the de-facto leader of the team (or the Captain) and will make the difference every time......proof of this is in the
following names (listed chronologically).....

Roger Bresnahan
Johnny Kling
Wally Schang
Muddy Ruel
Mickey Cochrane
Bill Dickey
Al Lopez
Ernie Lombardi
Yogi Berra
Roy Campanella
Elston Howard
Tim Mcarver
Johnny Bench
Manny Sanguillen
Thurman Munson
Carlton Fisk
Bob Boone
And when Gary Carter came to the Mets, I had a feeling they would be winners.

Anyhow, if the Yankees' Posada walks, the Yankees will go after Varitek.

TED Z

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Posted By: MVSNYC

ted- very well thought out...

jeff said-

"Sad that a guy who will end up being perhaps the greatest player on paper will have a nomadic career in which chasing the dollar was his most significant concern."

this is so obvious & true...Arod is only for Arod. his stats are incredible, don't get me wrong, but he is so un-clutch and seems to be very selfish...

i'll take a Jeter over Arod any day of the week...he is a leader, clutch and a proven team player.

i'm sick of money ruling where someone plays or chooses to play. it's not like he or any well payed player is struggling for money.

by the way, as a yankees fan, i do have to tip my hat to the red sox...i admit that once the yanks were eliminated, i was pulling for the sox to win it all (purely from a nostalgic & historical perspective).

congrats.

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Posted By: Fred C

Players are greedy but I think they are egged on by their agents. In this case A-rods agent is probably one of the greediest (if not the greediest) agents in sports history. The agent has to pump up the player to thicken their wallet. What will be funny is if the Yanks are void of A-rod and win the WS in 2008.

Edited to add: Oh yeah, congratulations to the Sox!

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

Aside from Wakefield, Varitek, and Francona, I find very little about these Red Sox that is likeable. Between the Sox and the Patriots, I'm wondering what happened to class in New England sports.

And I think ARod is the best player in baseball, and that his contract is so big that it has clouded a lot of people's vision as to how good he actually is, and how much he means to a team.

That said, Boras' move last night was a bush league move (announcing this during the World Series). It will hurt the Yankees that he's leaving, but that's not going to hurt them anywhere near as much as the departure of Joe Torre, the imminent signing of Joe Girardi, and the likely subsequent loss of Jorge Posada. It's tough to replace 150 RBI and 140 runs scored, but the Yankees should have learned by now that 1000 runs scored during the season translates into absolutely NOTHING in the postseason. It's all about pitching. And if the Yankees can take some of the cash that they've been investing in ARod and put it toward some strong pitching and a decent catcher, they would be OK.

The problem is that they won't. They'll take ARod's money and give it to Barry Bonds, or some other such ratings-grabbing power hitter, just as they have done every time a high-profile free agent comes along at a time when the media lights that shine on the Yankees start to dim.

-Al

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Posted By: James Feagin

While we're at it let's PLEASE scrap the myth that the Red Sox were a losing franchise prior to 2004. Since 1967, in 40 seasons the Red Sox had a total of 6 losing seasons and went to the playoffs numerous times. Sure they were the bridesmaid most of the time, but that's a lot better than to have not been invited to the wedding at all.

James

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Posted By: Steve

Ryan, sarcasstic but a thought provoking post nonetheless.

This morning my wife wanted to know if I want her to pick up the new "Sox Champs '07" cap at the mall this afternoon. "Nah, I have my Sox cap from '04".

Sure, this is a great time for Boston's young. Theo and the front office built an even better team and are a clockwork organization. Regardless, for those of us born in the 50's and earlier, I believe we're really not comfortable with this. My first Fenway game was in '67, mosochism began at 9 1/2 years old. Sucked in every summer thereafter, come late September/October we cried in secret, a lot.

Many of us reached our perpetual peace three years ago. Finally no more tears. And why the Hell not?, we've paid our dues. Last night, guilt -I don't deserve two World Series in my lifetime! Why am I still alive even?

Nowadays, it's simply the aura of that Kenmore Sanitarium by the Mass Pike that stirs my emotions anymore. I would pay the same for a ticket to sit in the CF bleachers on an Off-Day.

The true, seasoned Bosox fans don't buy the NY Hater, Red Sox Nation, Yankees Suck BS (I have more old Yanks than Sox items). This arrogant mentality is perpetuated NOT by locals but by the many sports outlets run by non-New Englanders and our new generation fell for it -it's TV that Sucks. The quiet majority has been scarred far to long and humility is a permanent part of our DNA.

NY fans, sure your teams of old were impossible hurdles but we were rabidly jealous out of frustration for winning fans everywhere, not just yooz guys. In twisted logic we were simply redirecting disappointment, "It's all your fault for winning". Ya see, you kids never felt our chronic pain, only damn joy.

And you humble older fans from Chitown, you mirror the old Bostonians. I look forward to seeing the Cubbies fans' dance, because you too have overpaid your dues.

Today, I'll be recelebrating '04, not at Fanuel Hall or by a duckboat in the Charles, but in the garage sipping on a Highlife with my old doggie while rebuilding a gummed up Harley carburetor.

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Posted By: John Kalafarski

Members of Red Sox Nation are enjoying themselves this morning; reading the bitterness in some of the Yankee-fan posts is music to our ears and adds to our joy. With young lions like Beckett, Buchholz, Delcarmen, Lester, Okajima, Matsuzaka, Pedroia, Ellsbury, and Papelbon on the Sox roster, get used to drinking the bitter brew for some time. No Sox fan wants the greedy ARod in Boston. I hope he winds up with no offers.

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Posted By: Chris Counts

The Yankees lost this year because they're pitching wasn't very good. I don't buy the A-Rod excuse ... they need to trade away guys like Damon, Giambi and Abreu (good luck!), stockpile young promising pitchers and try to win it all in a couple years. But I believe they'll be doomed by their impatience. No team in baseball history has spent more money on old, broken down and overpaid pitchers ...

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

I agree that pitching is the answer and the Yankees insist upon overpaying old broken, down players over and over. Seems like they'll never learn. As for the Sox (I'm a Mets fan for disclosure purposes), for some reason this Series win doesn't make me happy like their past one did. They've really just become a more successful (lately) version of the Yankees. It's hard as a baseball fan to feel the same joy for them as I did in 04 due to the overpaying they do as well (Gagne, Dice K, etc.).

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Posted By: dstudeba

Steve - excellent post, thank you.

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Posted By: John Kalafarski

Jeff, the Mets are 3rd on the team salary list. The new Sox management felt that in order to compete with the Yankees, they had to increase spending. After all, they are in the same division, and the Sox hadn't finished first in a long time. Wait 'til the Mets get the lightning rod.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

How did the Red Sox "overpay"? Everyone made money and they won the World Series. Even the Yankees with their larger payroll still made money this year.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

John, I agree with you totally. The Mets are just as bad (actually worse because they suck and are arrogrant while sucking). It would be nice for a small market team to win it without a lineup of hired guns is all I'm saying.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

The 'small market' Marlins have won the World Series twice.

And all 32 of their fans were very appreciative.

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Posted By: Ricky Y

Red Sox have two things going...smart baseball people in the organzation combined with the big financial resources. They have a good mix of young and old, home grown talent and smart free agent acquisitions. They seem to spend their money wisely. Yankees have done a good job with their killer lineup but they haven't done as well in putting together their pitching staff. Ofcourse its luck too...Okajima was basically signed to provide a Japanese teammate for Matsuzaka but ended up being an intergal part of their bullpen.

Ricky

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Posted By: James Feagin

Small market teams in the American League East do not have a legitimate shot though. Additionally, small market teams can never sustain a dynasty and can't afford to cover their mistakes. Franchises like the Yankees and Red Sox can and do (the prior more than the latter).

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Posted By: MVSNYC

edited to delete this post...i was trying to make a list of small & semi-small market teams, but upon checking a list of highest salary teams, my post seemed incorrect...

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Posted By: James Feagin

I think we're referring to the size of media markets? (Rankings based on Arbitron) If so #2 Los Angeles (Angels) and #3 Chicago (White Sox) should be omitted. Small market teams MAY get to taste the piece, but generally can't afford to do it continually or cover their mistakes.

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Posted By: dennis

a small market team in baseball really translates into an owner with no commitment to paying his players what they can recieve elsewhere. the 3 largest markets ny/la/chicago all have 2 teams which makes them compete not only with other teams but other teams in their own city. owners of the small market team love when the fans believe they do not win because they are small market.

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Posted By: James Feagin

I think that's true to a certain extent. I've always felt if baseball were to get a salary cap, a salary floor would also be necessitated so greedy small market owners couldn't pocket all the money

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Small market teams can and used to win with regularity. You just have to have an owner that is committed to winning and a sound, smart organization. The Royals used to win a lot when Ewing Kaufman was alive...now they have an owner who couldn't care less. The Twins used to win a lot and still do mainly because they have a consistent organization with good scouting and player development...they still win despite the efforts of their owner to retract his own team.

Relatively little has changed in baseball over the past 120+ years. Talent wins and you have to pay to keep it together or you have to develop it better than the others. Spalding's Chicago team dominated until he sold off King Kelly to Boston...many of Chicago's other talent followed and Boston then dominated. The Yanks and the Cards dominated much of the 20th century because they developed the talent through vast minor league systems and they paid to keep the best or bought the best (Ruth).

If you build it the championships will come.

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Posted By: Todd Schultz

Much of what you say is just plain wrong. First, going back to your earlier post, please identify for me 3-4 free agents that the Twins lost because they couldn't pay them. Second, please look at the team payrolls before bemoaning how cheap the Twins and A's are--here's the 2007 list:

http://asp.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/salaries/totalpayroll.aspx?year=2007

the A's and Twins were 17th and 18th in payroll, respectively, meaning a dozen other teams were behind them. They were right behind the Braves and Blue Jays--are those teams considered cheap? They were well ahead of the Indians--is the Tribe cheap?

If you added five $15M players to the Twins--that's maybe two starting pitchers and 3 everyday players, you'd just meet the Boston payroll and would still trail the Yankees by 40 MILLION Dollars??!!!!!!! And again, that's pretty much a middle of the pack team--think about how much more the lowest teams would get to add. It can certainly be disheartening for a team in these positions to offer bona fide dollars to players only to have the Yankees, Red Sox and occasionally a couple others just toss a few more million into the kitty and take them away. At some point, you simply have to face the reality of that situation and at best, pick your spots. So please spare me the cheap and doesn't give a damn blather--it's old and inaccurate.

Finally, your quote that the Yanks and the Cards dominated much of the 20th century because they developed the talent through vast minor league systems is laughable, at least for the last half of the century. The Yankees had a farm team all right--in Kansas City, where they would rape the A's on a regular basis to fill needs in exchange for washed-up veterans. Then of course those Yankee farmhands from the 60s' were damn impressive too, leading to how many lower division finishes? Frankly, if free agency hadn't rolled around the Yanks could have sucked for many, many more years. As for the Cardinals, they were hardly dominant during that time either, no more so than the Dodgers or Giants.

You are right about talent winning, that is certainly true. But when the tables are so scewed in terms of revenue generation and salary size, it does make it difficult for many cities/teams to perenially compete at the upper levels. That's a fact of life, at least for the foreseeable future.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

I should have clarified and said for the first half of the 20th century on the Yanks and Cards...I do agree that the Yankees used the KC team as a farm team, but that was in the 1950s and 60s.

I did say there were two ways to win...buy the talent or develop the talent. There is a definite disparity in who can afford what, but this has ALWAYS existed in MLB and it probably always will. If you ask me parity sucks and leagues that have a salary cap have become boring. Even NCAA football has become boring since they limited scholarships and spread out the talent.

And Carl Pohlad tried to retract his own team...that's 'nuf ced right there.

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Posted By: James Feagin

Small to mid markets have made the NFL what it is today.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

I guess I have always been fond of the dynastic nature of sports in the past. I no longer watch the NFL or NBA...never did watch the NHL. And college football this year is a snoozer. The BCS title game could be Boston College v Kansas...<shudder>

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Posted By: PC

"I'm wondering what happened to class in New England sports."

Al -- there never was any class in New England sports among the fans, and certainly not in Boston.

Just ask Bill Russell and Bill Buckner.

Ever go to a BC game? When the college kids on the court/field aren't throwing the game, the kids in the stands are throwing things at the opposing players. It was worse at the old Garden.

It's a pettiness born of decades of losing, and it's hard to shake (both the pettiness and the losing). This will be short lived. Deservedly so.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

In an earlier post here you mentioned Mike Lowell possibly being replaced by A-Rod in Boston.

Lowell was already replaced by A-Rod....thanks to Stein-grabber. How many realize that Lowell came up thru the Yankee farm system ?

But, it is sheer JUSTICE that Mike Lowell ends up being the World Series MVP....take that "George the jerk".

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Posted By: Steve

PC, Who pissed on your Cheerios?.. Incidentally, a high percentage of kids enrolled in Boston College, Harvard, BU, NE etc etc aren't from Boston. I believe this is the norm in most major US cities. (My kids attended colleges out of state) Cowboy Up, Steve F

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Posted By: dstudeba

Wow PC, hope your day gets better.

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Posted By: PC

Hey, there are far worse things in life -- for instance, we could be stuck in an elevator with Chao or Dorskind.

I feel better now, thanks.

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Posted By: Mike

Does Lowell of Boston know his father is Don Mossi?

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Posted By: Darrell

It would be the 60th anniversary so there is hope I guess
wouldn't mind seeing Lowell in our LF
Go Tribe
Darrell

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Posted By: john/z28jd

Ted,actually Lowell was traded because of Scott Brosius blocking him and i think they did ok with that deal considering he had won the world series mvp that year and then they signed him for the next 3 years that included 2 more series wins in which he batted .375 and .308 respectively. Arod didnt even come around till another 3 seasons after that,the year that wouldve been Lowells free agent year.The Marlins signed him to an extension prior to that,then got burned bad by his horrible play in 2005 and had to dump him to the Sox who only took him to get Beckett not because they wanted him

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Posted By: Greg Theberge

The Red Sox won the series? Hadn't heard.

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Posted By: DMcD

"I would pay the same for a ticket to sit in the CF bleachers on an Off-Day."
Steve: A Great Post! Thank you for that profound comment. It touched this old Giants fan's heart. (I'll go you one further-wish I were in the Polo Grounds right now). And somehow, mucking a carburetor with a cold one handy on an Indian Summer New England day seems a good a way as any to acknowledge your team's victory. Enjoy!

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Boston's J. Ellsbury got 4 hits in one game this WS....he's only the 2nd Rookie to ever do this.

Who was the first ?

TED Z

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Posted By: Greg Theberge

Funny thing. I read this thread for the first time last night after getting in from Washington D.C. over the weekend and really didn't pay it much attention. As I was reading it again, I got a call from my wife who was all excited about running into Don Orsillo at our local pizza joint. For those who aren't aware, Don broadcasts the Sox games on NESN along with Jerry Remy. My wife loves the Sox as much as I do, and there isn't a day or night when the game isn't on.

That being said, I wasn't really going to elaborate any deeper into some of the comments made in this thread, but hearing my wife's excitement made me change my mind. That's what this game is all about after all. It's not about bitching and moaning about everything about the game, or about every single thing about this hobby of ours either. I've come to recognize those on this board that I would love to share a beer in a sports bar with and those who are better off left alone to wallow in their self pitty.

Steve, great post. My sentiments exactly, although I might pick a different brew than Highlife

I was going to say something about the "no class" thing in New England, as one of the other immature posts that followed, but you know what? There's no reason to have to defend anything here.

Write all the negative crap you want. You're missing the point anyway.

Truth is the Boston Red Sox are a great and historic team. They've had their ups and downs, their highs and lows. People have followed them with a passion for over a hundred years. People follow teams for one reason or another. They placed momentos on loved one's gravesites in 2004. Some people don't get the reason why some of us follow a team over all of these years and they think it's ok to just crap on something because they feel something in their life is missing. How simply immature. I couldn't care less about salaries, high second market ticket prices and pink caps. There's more to it than that. Those that need an explaination to this won't get it anyway.

Great job Tribe and Colorado. You made the fall fun. That's what it's all about.

Now what the hell am I going to watch on tv for the next 5 months???





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