A New Grading Company

[Yoda]

If I were an ultra-rich venture capitalist, which I sadly am not, interested in the whole wild world of memorabilia and collecting and ruminating away, while thumbing through a stack of $10,000 bills, I might just have a thought: With all the hoopla going on about altered cards being graded and PSA under pressure maybe there might be room for a new grading company. But how? Here are a few thoughts:-(1) Hire 3 top graders, offering them obscene salaries and bonuses with 5 year contracts; one for prewar, one for '50s, '60s and early '70s and one for modern. Buy state of the art equipment, hire good looking girls to take submissions, advertise like Hell, go to shows and grade on site, and provide a well-developed card data base
In short, is there room for a new grading company in a turbulent marketplace?

[packs]

I would prefer there wasn't. I don't feel as though my collector grade cards pose any issues for future buyers and I'd rather not have to switch them all over to something else. I personally don't feel affected by this controversy and have no qualms with what I've got.

[perezfan]

I'm in...

Even with 3 mediocre graders, current-day technology and average-looking girls to take submissions... it's better than what we've got now!

In all seriousness, I know starting up any business is extremely difficult... especially when one competitor in particular has a foothold/near-monopoly within the market. But one of the things I'm hoping to result from all this is for a new kind of TPG to emerge (and succeed).

Perhaps one that disavows numerical grades in favor of simply deeming a card as altered or not. We collectors can (and should) determine the aesthetic value for ourselves.... no randomly assigned numbers needed.

[Ronnie73]

I'll hire the girls

Honestly, I do believe there's room for a new company. We already know what the SGC guys like and what the PSA guys like. It's easy to start from the beginning doing everything right that they both got wrong over the years. With the right team of people, skys the limit.

[rdwyer]

I would like to see Apple Computers grade cards, etc. They could write AI software that would get it right every time! The rest would be an automated assembly line. Take the men outta the loop! They would never fall behind or come up with lame excuses for delays, etc. Their customer service is top notch.

[swarmee]

I personally don't see a new market entrant getting enough traction to become profitable.

[trambo]

Originally Posted by swarmee

I personally don't see a new market entrant getting enough traction to become profitable.

+1

Way too much capital involved to get enough traction to do it and get enough market share to make it work! Wouldn't mind seeing someone try, though!

[maniac_73]

I would like to see no grading companies and collecting brought back to what it should be where you collect for the card not the slab and a subjective number of grade. Guess you cant put the genie back in the bottle though.

[AGuinness]

Originally Posted by trambo

+1

Way too much capital involved to get enough traction to do it and get enough market share to make it work! Wouldn't mind seeing someone try, though!

Agreed. I don't think anybody who would attempt the same approach as the established graders would be able to steal enough of the market.

However, if somebody took a novel and different approach, it might work. If I were to do it, I would scrap the grades. No A/1-10 stuff; it would be replaced by three tiers that would offer a more general assessment. Something to the effect of: No Obvious Flaws, Minor Flaws Visible and Major Flaws (for the purpose of this exercise, slabs would have 0, M or F, respectively, to denote the assessment).
Each slab would have a QR code that goes to the card's page on the company's website. And here is where it can get fun... Each card's page has a section describing what we've observed on the card (creases, paper loss, corner dings, etc.), along with a series of photographs, including multiple backgrounds (white/black), one with the card under blacklight, set up with one of those centering tools, set against a ruler or some other measuring tool, at different angles, etc. All that is available to the public, too.
Furthermore, and perhaps a subscription fee would be needed, auction/sales history of each card would be available, along with any known history of the card (if it was in a PSA slab previously, for instance). Maybe under the same subscription, users could also see submission information (such as who did the submitting) in an anonymous way (each submitter gets a number code, for instance).
I think part of the problem of today's TPGs is the unknowns of why cards grade the way they do. 8s can look like 10s, 4s can have better eye appeal than some 7s, etc. etc. Each TPG has their grading standards, but it's up to the collector to try and figure out why a card graded the way it did and it is (or at least appears to be) inconsistent application of the standards at times.
I think this new TPG could help buyers make more informed decisions while "buying the card, not the flip."
But I'm sure this new TPG would also flop within the first year - way too much time spent on each card and too much money to start things up!

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by AGuinness

Agreed. I don't think anybody who would attempt the same approach as the established graders would be able to steal enough of the market.

However, if somebody took a novel and different approach, it might work. If I were to do it, I would scrap the grades. No A/1-10 stuff; it would be replaced by three tiers that would offer a more general assessment. Something to the effect of: No Obvious Flaws, Minor Flaws Visible and Major Flaws (for the purpose of this exercise, slabs would have 0, M or F, respectively, to denote the assessment).
Each slab would have a QR code that goes to the card's page on the company's website. And here is where it can get fun... Each card's page has a section describing what we've observed on the card (creases, paper loss, corner dings, etc.), along with a series of photographs, including multiple backgrounds (white/black), one with the card under blacklight, set up with one of those centering tools, set against a ruler or some other measuring tool, at different angles, etc. All that is available to the public, too.
Furthermore, and perhaps a subscription fee would be needed, auction/sales history of each card would be available, along with any known history of the card (if it was in a PSA slab previously, for instance). Maybe under the same subscription, users could also see submission information (such as who did the submitting) in an anonymous way (each submitter gets a number code, for instance).
I think part of the problem of today's TPGs is the unknowns of why cards grade the way they do. 8s can look like 10s, 4s can have better eye appeal than some 7s, etc. etc. Each TPG has their grading standards, but it's up to the collector to try and figure out why a card graded the way it did and it is (or at least appears to be) inconsistent application of the standards at times.
I think this new TPG could help buyers make more informed decisions while "buying the card, not the flip."
But I'm sure this new TPG would also flop within the first year - way too much time spent on each card and too much money to start things up!

Great ideas, if someone could actually implement them. Beneficial for the customer and for the hobby.

But could this enterprise be profitable and successful as a business model? For the answer to be "yes", you'd need to have a solid marketing team, lots of patience, and the ability to eventually sway thousands of people away from the current TPGs.

[h2oya311]

never underestimate the power of the registry.

[Jcosta19]

CAC grading for coins is a good example of something that could work for less overhead too.
Since coin grading, much like cards is subjective, what they do is take already graded coins and they don't even take them out of the slab. They simple certify them with an additional small hologram sticker on the previously existing third party graded holder.

Obviously there would be differences, but it's an idea of how to get started.

https://www.caccoin.com/

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[RCMcKenzie]

I would spend the money on a team that tries to develop a longer battery life.

I think there could be a niche place for a company that only grades baseball cards older than say 1959.

I think current tpgs could just scrap vintage grading and focus on the Magic the Gathering, Mike Trout, and James Harden card customers.

[bnorth]

I don't think it would be that hard or expensive to start a new grading company. Damian Werner run GAI/Global Authority out of his garage for several years. A former member also run a small grading company out of Florida. I think they might have even teamed up towards the end.

There is also a company out there that will sell you slabs/sealer fairly cheap. Heck they will even do all the work for your and design you flip. All you have to do is give the cards a grade and they do the rest.

[steve B]

I think there's room for a new grading company.
I don't think it will work if it's at all similar to the current ones. That "service" is a market that's totally overloaded, and has a pretty sound near monopoly as part of it.

A company with a different approach though, might have a small chance.

The two routes I see as possibly working
1) A fairly high end service with a high minimum price for grading, tiered pricing, but related to value rather than value and turnaround time. In other words, the grading takes as long as it takes. The company takes the time to get it right very nearly every time. The minimum charge would be fairly high, so it would be almost exclusively for more expensive cards.

Full scans taken and archived
A new sort of holder with space inside for a sheet with a detailed report on the grade etc.
That new holder could be customizable. I'm picturing something with gaskets like SGC, but not thin enough to cause problems, and available in different colors. Like red for Reds or Red Sox cards, white or gray for black bordered cards like 71T or 50 Drakes.
A solid database that's publicly available.
Enough knowledge to not need a further 3rd party checklist to be published before adding something. (If you're an expert, you're an expert right? )

2)Something along the lines of the Philatelic foundation, which can be donated to, and has an extensive library and reference collection.
http://www.philatelicfoundation.org/...ic-foundation/

[Yoda]

I love the fact that you guys have devoted much thought to the subject already. You know, it just might be doable. With the right graders and ample capital, outsourcing the slabbing and marketing the company's mission, it just might be viable. Any venture capitalists out there?

[drcy]

Certainly, improvements to grading and authentication are essential, but I'd focus on a reevaluation and revaluation of grading as a whole. What it is, what is supposed to do, and how grading should be considered by collectors.

There's nothing wrong with 75% accuracy if everyone realizes, considers it and uses it as 75% accuracy.

Registry final calculations of numeral grades to the .00 decimal point, with no consideration of the margins of error which are likely (offhand guess) higher 10%, has always been folly on its face.

"Knowing the extent of one's ignorance is true knowledge."-- Confucius

I think qualified graders offer useful independent opinions, especially considering cards are often bought and sold online and many buyers are not authentication experts. If I was about to pay $10,000 card from someone 1,5000 miles away, I'd appreciate an independent (if fallible) expert having looked at it in person But graders and grading companies should be treated as giving fallible opinions. Even grading companies themselves say grading involves subjectivity and the assigned grades can change upon resubmissions.

However, early economists had to change their models because the learned that, despite their models' axioms of rational behavior, there is a lot of irrationality in human buying and selling. That there's irrationality in baseball card and grading valuations would not surprise economists

[BigBeerGut]

Yoda!

Fail you will

[chalupacollects]

Wonder what happened to those Microsoft engineers who patented a computer based (no human involvement) grading system???

Would be perfect timing for them...