Help identify these teams in Harpers woodcuts

[orator1]

Can anyone match these 6 images with their auction description below? I recognize the top left image as 1874 Boston. Two of the woodcuts described are the 1882 and 1883 NY Metropolitans, and I would like to know if they are pictured. If you know the issue dates for these two Harpers woodcuts please post them since it will aid my search for a copy. Thanks.

"Interesting Newspaper supplements including pages cut from 1888, 1906 North American and beautifully colorized prints from Harpers. There are eight Harpers woodcuts, six of which have been beautifully hand colored. These include 1882 Metropolitans, 1882 Providence, 1865 Atlantics, 1882 Chicago, 1874 Boston and 1883 Metropolitans."

"The other 2 are 1886 Champion players and a Harpers photoprint page featuring the 1897 Boston Beaneaters. One print from 1888 features a rare print of the Athletics. 8 are team pictures from the period published in a magazine supplement and are the same photos produced by LEVYTYPE used in the famous book Athletic Sports In America. The teams are Louisville, Columbus, the Athletics, Brooklyn, Kansas City, Philadelphia and St. Louis. Each has the players ID’d at the bottom. The reverse carries another major team picture, but because they didn’t line up the same the Ids were trimmed off. The 1906 North American Prints are Philadelphia NL, Chicago AL and Washington, the only three known. Generally excellent."

[T206Collector]

...is in the middle-left one, right in the middle sitting down. I believe that's the Providence one.

[FrankWakefield]

Middle left is The Providence Base-Ball Club, from Sept 30, 1882.

Bottom right left is The Chicago Base-Ball Club, from Oct 14, 1882.

Top left is International Base-Ball, The Boston Champions, from June 27, 1874.


I am certain of this, I have them in my hand at this moment.

The top right one is NOT a woodcut.

From looking at Mr. Lipset's cogent first volume of the Encyclopedia of Baseball Cards, I see that there was a half page woodcut of the Metropolitan team on August 5, 1882; but I see no 1883 woodcut for the Metropolitans. There are only 2 1883 woodcuts on the list, one for Chicago, depicting their new grounds, and one for Boston. That middle right woodcut may well be the Chicago 1883 woodcut.

Hope that helps.

FW

[base_ball]

middle right is entitled, "The New Grounds of the Metropolitan Baseball Club On Staten Island"

[base_ball]

And bottom left is "The Metropolitan Baseball Club"...look at lot #12 from Leon's last auction.

http://www.b-lauctions.com/site/auction.asp

[bmarlowe1]

top right is Louisville AA 1889 - a photo, not a woodcut.

[orator1]

Frank, Joseph, Mark, and T206Collector,
You guys are amazing.
Thanks for taking the time to help.
Paul C.

[orator1]

This auction was actually Mr. Lipset's at oldjudge.com.

http://www.oldjudge.com/?showpage=/a...47/&i=34&p=2#a

If you don't mind checking, what is the issue date of "The New Grounds of the Metropolitan Baseball Club On Staten Island"?

I wonder if Mr. Lipset's description of an "1883 Metropolitan" woodcut is accurate but wasn't posted in the auction's photo (not all the listed items were in the photo), or the 1883 year was simply a typo. Maybe he is referring to "The New Grounds..." woodcut which might be dated 1883?

I still hope to find any image of the 1883 Metropolitan team - woodcut, photo, etc. - so if anybody knows of one please let me know.
Thanks!

Paul C.

[FrankWakefield]

Paul, you are quite welcome. When we're not being ornery, we can sometimes be helpful...

The New Grounds of the Metropolitan Base-Ball Club on Staten Island, should be dated May 15, 1886, page 300 from Harpers' Weekly, 9 1/2 x 14, about half a page. Mr. Lipset lists it that way in his Encyclopedia.

Frank.

[orator1]

So I guess the conclusion is that it was a typo and no 1883 Metropolitans woodcut was offered in the auction. Too bad since I thought I finally found an image of this team.

"There are eight Harpers woodcuts, six of which have been beautifully hand colored. These include 1882 Metropolitans, 1882 Providence, 1865 Atlantics, 1882 Chicago, 1874 Boston and 1883 Metropolitans."

[FrankWakefield]

Paul, unfortunately, that is my estimation, too. It looks like he got the year wrong. And while the colored woodcut of the ball park looks neat, it doesn't really show much of the team, whatever the year.

Did you win that lot?

[orator1]

I didn't bid on that lot - I just recently came across it when browsing the auction archives. Thanks again.
Paul C.

[barrysloate]

Issue #14 of the Vintage and Classic Baseball Collector (Jan/Feb 1998) has all 41 Harper's baseball woodcuts pictured and dated. It's a great resource and would have answered all your questions.

[FrankWakefield]

Barry,

I recall that issue. I knew there was a list with images of each published somewhere, but couldn't remember what it was in.

But if Paul had merely referred to issue #14 then we'd have missed out on this great exchange.

[barrysloate]

Frank- that's why I waited to post the answers.

[drdduet]

Were these woodcuts originally issued hand colored?

I have many but none hand colored, looks like a helluva of a good job!

[barrysloate]

They were not issued hand colored, and I assume coloring them was a popular pastime. Whether they were done period, or at a much later date, is hard to determine.

I always liked them colored, but collectors are probably split on it.