T205 Question/Theory

I have been doing a lot of looking at cards I have owned with particular backs. My primary focus was the backs Piedmont Fact. 42, American Beauty, Cycles, and Broadleafs. I started to notice that cards that had Pied. 42 backs could also be found with an AB back. Cards found only on the Pied. 25 could be found with Cycle backs.


Examples off the top of my head are:

Addie Joss. Pied 25 and Cycle.

Ty Cobb Pied 42. and AB

Hal Chase Left Ear Pied 25 and Cycle

Hal Chase Frame Ends Pied 42 and AB.

Yes some of the cards may also contain Cycle backs that are found with Pied 42 and AB backs. A majority of them also will have BL's. I have only found if the card is present on Pied 42, AB, and Cycle that it also may have the BL match.

Exp. with P25, P42, AB, Cycle, BL

A.Latham
Chase
Phelps
M.Brown

Any of the cards found with these 4 may also have a Drum back. Phelps and Brown are easy examples without thinking to hard.

If the card is found or possibly could be found with a Pied 42, BL, or AB back it WILL NOT be found with a Hindu.


I am interested in seeing what becomes of my theory. Is it gonna sink or float. My luck is its already written in a book and I wasted a bunch of time researching. Anyways I am looking forward to feedback and discussion.

[Runscott]

Andrew, I'm sorry to inform you that plans are already in place to put this information, as well as a lot of additional information that is quite secret at the moment, but will be earth-shattering to the hobby, on a new all-encompassing website called ....T205Resource.com

It will be impossible to acknowledge those who have contributed to the existing knowledge-base of T205 (other than our friends); however, we will be sure to put your name on a special credits page if you send any fresh information after our website is published.

Regarding acknowledgments, there will be a gold-level page, a silver-level page, and a tin-level page.

It will be completely free to the hobby, and non-profit (except for a few minor things)*

* - none of your business

[peterb69]

Originally Posted by Runscott

a new all-encompassing website called ....T205Resource.com

Sweet.............I'm looking forward to this.

[Matt]

Andrew - great question. T205 research is where T206 research was 30 years ago and certainly could use a mass methodical approach. If someone had the time, this forum probably could be used as the basis for producing a super-set spreadsheet which could then be used for these kind of observations and lookign at what fronts are available with what backs.

[Ease]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Andrew, I'm sorry to inform you that plans are already in place to put this information, as well as a lot of additional information that is quite secret at the moment, but will be earth-shattering to the hobby, on a new all-encompassing website called ....T205Resource.com

It will be impossible to acknowledge those who have contributed to the existing knowledge-base of T205 (other than our friends); however, we will be sure to put your name on a special credits page if you send any fresh information after our website is published.

Regarding acknowledgments, there will be a gold-level page, a silver-level page, and a tin-level page.

It will be completely free to the hobby, and non-profit (except for a few minor things)*

* - none of your business

If you don't create a rusted steel-level acknowledgement page, I'll never visit the site again.

[dog*dirt]

I am still trying to wrap my head around some of the back combos on the T205's. Here is something that does not completely convince me that if a card has the P25,42, Cycle, AB that there is a Broadleaf.

Mathewson, as far as I know all of the backs mentioned have been found on the Matty, I have never seen a BL back for him. I would assume that with him being such a popular player that we would have seen one by now.

[Runscott]

Both Andrews - you will find that there just isn't much shared information out there regarding T205s. T206 stuff is easy to find, especially now that we have T206RESOURCE.ORG. My comments above were tongue-in-cheek, but I do really feel that we could benefit from something similar (but less ambitious) for T205's.

I have already begun gathering data, which at some point I will run by the few T205 collectors who have admitted to being such, but I don't actually have any plans for a T205 website. If I knew more about these cards, I would be selling the 175+ that I have squirreled away due to ignorance.

Scott we should talk more about this. I have something's I would love to release to the hobby that may not be known about certain cards in the set. Some of which I have posted previously here on the board. Please pm me and I will get you my # if you would like to discuss some of these things. Who knows maybe after 5 yrs of focus collecting and talking with other hobby guys I might just not know anything now because you might have my info

Andrew to answer your question about Matty. Just because he is found on those doesn't mean anything just a possibility. Chances are drum and BL's will not have many of the cards we want. Reason is distribution. A lot of the drums are Midwest players or cards like Graham and shean which are abundant and I believe used as fillers for sheets. Drums like Hobby cin after, brown, phelps, stone, ect. Those are all mid US based teams. Seems the BLs do follow that pattern also with some exceptions. Still a lot of cards to gather and minds to pic for a set distribution and patterns for a confirmed list

[nebboy]

For a few minutes there I uncrossed my fingers that just such back/combo info has going to be published.

It is one of my goals for 2012 to research tuff backed t205 much more. Im looking forward to hearing more your all of you. I if I can help in anyone search of backs to complete factory list, please contact me.

My focus has been on Piedmont 42s only because I think they are the most understood.

-John

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by nebboy

For a few minutes there I uncrossed my fingers that just such back/combo info has going to be published.

It is one of my goals for 2012 to research tuff backed t205 much more. Im looking forward to hearing more your all of you. I if I can help in anyone search of backs to complete factory list, please contact me.

My focus has been on Piedmont 42s only because I think they are the most understood.

-John

John, if it helps, I'm willing to share scans from my old collecting days - I collected regardless of backs. I haven't scanned the current stash, but certainly don't mind sharing those as well.

[dog*dirt]

Andrew,this is about the time in a thread on T205's that someone will start to compare them to the T206's. I hope this doesn't happen again.

I have noticed that many of the BL backs seem to have a number of east coast players also. Do you agree or disagree with this?

[cdn_collector]

Andrew,

George Gibson is available in P25, P42 and Cycle for sure [I used to own all three]. To round out the P42=>AB relation, last year on eBay there was a raw T205 Gibson with an AB back sold. Once upon a time Gibson/AB was unconfirmed by resident T205 experts and it's the first one I'd seen, so it's tough to say the least. That said, I didn't win it, so I can't speak to it's authenticity, but the scans looked legit. At one point I did have copies of said scans and can try to find them to send along if that does anything for you.


Regards,

Richard.

[HRBAKER]

Alright, much more of this type of banter and I am going to suggest that T205s have their own BST page. Carry on.

All in good fun.

[Wite3]

Andrew,
As you know, I have done extensive research on t205 backs over the years. I can answer your Matty question...

The simple answer is that no Broadleaf Matty will exist. You have to compare colors on the American Beauty backs to determine if certain cards exist. Matty does come with AB Green but not Broadleaf. AB green backs are never found with Broadleaf backs.

You research while starting out good...is not quite accurate.

There are many P42 backs that do not come with Broadleaf or American Beauty (Barger as an example).

I have a large spreadsheet of backs and rarity samplings and scans etc. I do not really share it anymore because the last time I shared my research, it was published under another collectors name and I was given no credit whatsoever. BTW, my data contains over 15,000 unique cards that I have either seen scans of or in person. I rarely add anything that I have not seen myself. I have a few collectors who send me information when they come across it. To be honest, the last two pieces of data I added this summer were two new Drum backs that I finally got a scan of. Nothing earth shattering but still interesting. BTW, most people still feel that Drum is the rarest back in T205 but I can no confirm that there seem to be more Drum backs floating around now that Hindu because of the St. Louis find and a find in the Southeast in the last few years.

I can tell you that certain backs do seem to follow a pattern but there are some odd overlaps because there were printing changes that happened in the middle of runs where some cards were removed and some added (like Joss, Breshnahan open, and Hoblitzels).

I enjoy your threads about the t205s and keep up the research. If you want to compile information one day and want to write an article together, I would be happy to help you.

Joshua

[frohme]

Originally Posted by cdn_collector

Andrew,

George Gibson is available in P25, P42 and Cycle for sure [I used to own all three]. To round out the P42=>AB relation, last year on eBay there was a raw T205 Gibson with an AB back sold. Once upon a time Gibson/AB was unconfirmed by resident T205 experts and it's the first one I'd seen, so it's tough to say the least. That said, I didn't win it, so I can't speak to it's authenticity, but the scans looked legit. At one point I did have copies of said scans and can try to find them to send along if that does anything for you.


Regards,

Richard.

Hey Richard,

I can (or should have been able to) confirm Gibson with AB (Green). Was outbid on it on eBay in late 2010 if I recall and thought I had saved a scan but can't find it right now. If I do, I'll post it.

Add it to the list of others you'll want to reassemble ...
--
Mike

[dog*dirt]

Josh,

I was just throwing some thoughts around. I do not have enough hard data to prove or disprove anything. There is just some head scratching for me when some backs follow a certain pattern and then others that should follow the pattern do not.

Also what is interesting is when some of the most commons backs for most of the set are fairly scarce on some cards.

Thanks again for all your work concerning the T205's

[cdn_collector]

Originally Posted by frohme

Hey Richard,

I can (or should have been able to) confirm Gibson with AB (Green). Was outbid on it on eBay in late 2010 if I recall and thought I had saved a scan but can't find it right now. If I do, I'll post it.

Add it to the list of others you'll want to reassemble ...
--
Mike

You saw the one that I saw, I'm guessing. I almost bid just because I had never seen that combo before, and even emailed the seller for better scans, but decided to pass simply because I wasn't collecting Gibson at the time. I'm sure I'll regret that at some point, but c'est la vie.

Regards,

Richard.

[Wite3]

I can confirm that Gibson comes with a green American Beauty back...

Joshua

Andrew I have noticed that there are both. The bl's I have owned were a mix of Midwest players. Only 3 of the 10 were east coast players and they were all giants

Josh I would like to look at any info you want to share. I have really just started to focus on research since it is free and keeps me immersed in my T205's. I have noticed the AB black and BL connection a while back but really never focused on it because I have been looking in other areas. Thanks for confirming that for me. I was unsure so didn't want to throw out to much.

If anyone wants to share info please email me @ pup6913@hotmail.com. Any info you send will be kept confidential and shared only between those that have provided research. I am looking forward to those who will be sending info as well as thank you guys for those who have. I think it's time the hobby gets a better look at the elusive T205 and maybe shine some light on the unknown