Ebay vs Auction houses

[markf31]

With the close of last night's Legendary auction, I successfully won my first house auction. The process is still quite new to me and it go me thinking. Since I imagine most bidders account for and figure the Buyers Premium, shipping and (since I live in PA) sales tax with auction houses into their bids, what is the real advantage to using an auction house as a seller/consignor?

So for instance a bidder who would pay $600 out of pocket for an item, will bid up to $500 on the item, with the Buyers Premium and assocaites fees bringing him to around his $600 mark. Now the seller takes home $500 minus a 15% consignment fee...and walks away with $425.

I understand that for someone who isn't involved in the hobby/business of sports collectibles and wants to sell items that going through an auction house might make a little sense and maybe it makes sense as well for very high valued and rare collectibles, but for common collectibles and memorabilia I just don't see how it makes sense. Especially now with Ebay consignment companies becoming more popular.

Or am I just missing something??

[Vegas-guy]

Originally Posted by markf31

With the close of last night's Legendary auction, I successfully won my first house auction. The process is still quite new to me and it go me thinking. Since I imagine most bidders account for and figure the Buyers Premium, shipping and (since I live in PA) sales tax with auction houses into their bids, what is the real advantage to using an auction house as a seller/consignor?

So for instance a bidder who would pay $600 out of pocket for an item, will bid up to $500 on the item, with the Buyers Premium and assocaites fees bringing him to around his $600 mark. Now the seller takes home $500 minus a 15% consignment fee...and walks away with $425.

I understand that for someone who isn't involved in the hobby/business of sports collectibles and wants to sell items that going through an auction house might make a little sense and maybe it makes sense as well for very high valued and rare collectibles, but for common collectibles and memorabilia I just don't see how it makes sense. Especially now with Ebay consignment companies becoming more popular.

Or am I just missing something??

A few things off the top of my head:

1. Some auction houses don't have a seller fee (Goodwin) and have a bigger following due to marketing.

2. Some people just do want to deal with ebay? You only have at most 10 days time and for the most part, and people have to keep checking ebay or they could miss an item. Some people just don't have time to keep checking every few days.

Just my .02 cents..

[rainier2004]

Originally Posted by markf31

Or am I just missing something??

Mark - I think You're missing something. When REA and some of these bigger AH can get 125%-200% of what they realize on ebay, its the way to go. When that same $600 item sells at the AH for $750 or more, the fees seem a little more bearable. Expensive items tend to garner much more attention at the AH as well. It seems like eventually AH will monoplize the vintage card selling niche IMO. N54 b/s/t is still the best place.

[jimross]

Surprise no one mention there are tons of non-payers on eBay and they can still BS and leave u negative feedbacks.

[sycks22]

It is kind of funny that people won't buy a card on ebay for $3500, but will play $4300+ in an auction house. There's nothing like getting a catalogue in the mail and leafing through it.

[cubsfan-budman]

I know this has been talked about in other threads, but another advantage of the AH is that there is some assurance that the items are authentic. At least if it isn't, there's an entity that you can hold responsible.

[turtleguy64]

in the past I've sent thousands of dollars worth of stuff to Mastro,and then Legendary.The conclusion: if you are consigning to auction houses,then you will probably make some good bucks.But if you are buying from such auctions,then you will probably NOT make money.For example,selling the auction stuff you won later on ebay,you will in all probability not break even.Unless it is some rarity which a collector somewhere MUST have.I'm just going by my experiences.

[packs]

The thing I hate about auction houses is the extended time. I just don't understand the principle behind it. Most auction house auctions run for weeks and even with weeks to put in your highest maxium bid they let other bidders steal an item from you in extended time.

[Exhibitman]

Lots of dealers buy lots of stuff at auctions to resell. They know their price points and have the discipline not to exceed them.

Ebay is probably the place to maximize your returns on individual card sales but it takes time and effort to list and fill orders, so you really have to decide whether it is worth your time.

[BCauley]

Eventually I'll bid on an AH listing but not yet. As for ebay, I've pretty much sworn it off. A few of the recent purchases I've had I've waited for the card to pop up on the B/S/T here. Sure, those same cards were listed on ebay but I've just become so sour about that site that I just hold off and wait for it to show up elsewhere.

[SetBuilder]

The B/S/T has a very small and limited selection. About 5 new listings pop up each day. I'm not used to buying by posting a request. I prefer to view the listings in a catalog form and choose what I want.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by packs

The thing I hate about auction houses is the extended time. I just don't understand the principle behind it. Most auction house auctions run for weeks and even with weeks to put in your highest maxium bid they let other bidders steal an item from you in extended time.

The solution is to bid more than anyone else .

I don't understand your reasoning that, if you have the same opportunity as everyone else to bid, they are letting other bidders steal an item?

[camlov2]

Originally Posted by packs

The thing I hate about auction houses is the extended time. I just don't understand the principle behind it. Most auction house auctions run for weeks and even with weeks to put in your highest maxium bid they let other bidders steal an item from you in extended time.

I would say just the opposite. In an auction house they always add extra time once a bid is made, an item can't be "stolen". On ebay you can bid with a few seconds left and not leave enough time for someone to increase their bid. (either case it can't be stolen if you bid more-as Leon stated)

[packs]

My point is that if I bid my max bid before time runs out and I'm winning the auction when time runs out, I should be the winner. Someone shouldn't be allowed to have a second chance at the item just because they placed an initial bid but didn't outbid me in regulation time.

That's what I'm referring to by stealing an item. It's like if eBay allowed sellers to wait until an auction ended and message everyone who bid to ask if they were sure they didn't want to pay more money now that they know what the item sold for. A second chance bid is different from a max bid.

[Jlighter]

While I do agree with extended time, I think it should be on a per item basis. For example if a bid on a lot 29 is not placed 15 mins after the auction ends, then that lot closes, but any other lot that receives a bid goes to the next 15 mins.

Just my thought.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by packs

My point is that if I bid my max bid before time runs out and I'm winning the auction when time runs out, I should be the winner. Someone shouldn't be allowed to have a second chance at the item just because they placed an initial bid but didn't outbid me in regulation time.

That's what I'm referring to by stealing an item. It's like if eBay allowed sellers to wait until an auction ended and message everyone who bid to ask if they were sure they didn't want to pay more money now that they know what the item sold for. A second chance bid is different from a max bid.

If you were a consignor you would want extended time...again and again.

[packs]

Sure but I'm just talking about bidding. An auction is an auction because it has a set ending time and duration. If you're going to set an ending time that isn't really an ending time why call it an auction? It's more of a best offer system. When you gamble its a one shot deal. You don't get to put more money on top of your bet after you find out you won or take some off the top after you find out you lost. If you place a max bid and get outbid in regulation time but get to change your mind later, that's something other than an auction to me.

Just my opinion. Not looking to change the world.

[cubsfan-budman]

have you ever watched a live auction? they go on as long as someone is bidding.

[packs]

Yes but imagine if after the live auction they decided to hold another live auction the next day to see if there were people who were willing to pay more. These are just my opinions and I'm clarifying my thoughts. I'm not saying what I think is right or what you think is wrong.

[cubsfan-budman]

An auction is an auction because it has a set ending time and duration.

not all auctions have ending time and duration. you're just stuck on ebay.

[olrac44]

I have a friend who buys T-206's. He looks to buy large lots of PSA Graded T-206's. Since he's so far along he usually accumulates doubles triples etc. (At one point he had 12 Hal Chase Blue Back Portraits from PSA 3 to 6) He's too busy to list on ebay. So I got him to take all of his extras to Baltimore. One Auction house gave him a very nice cash advance on his cards so he could go purchase other T-206 cards he needed.

Cash advance is another reason for auction houses.

[e107collector]

My opinion - I think many collectors have a sense of security and peace of mind when buying large $$ items from an auction house over Ebay. They know they will get an authentic item, and don't mind paying a little more money for it.

Just my 2 cents.

Tony

P.S. - I'm not saying that all ebay sellers are ripoffs. There are some great sellers on ebay - just sayin.

[Runscott]

Ebay used to be a lot of fun, and straight ebay auctions brought good prices for sellers. That's the key. Sellers had no qualms about listing straight auctions in ebay the same way they now do via auction houses.

Nowadays ebay is ZERO fun, and that's ebay's doing, due to their policy changes over the years that have encouraged a 'store' selling mentality, but auction houses are still lots of fun - I love opening a bottle of wine and watching the lots finish up on a good auction house night. I find my self winning stuff that I have no business bidding on, but I no longer have that problem on ebay (I used to).

If you find something cool on ebay that you want, check VCP and put in a snipe of 75% of average VCP value, and you are likely to win it. That won't be the case for auction house bids.

[markf31]

Originally Posted by Runscott

...I find my self winning stuff that I have no business bidding on, but I no longer have that problem on ebay (I used to).

I can see myself having the same "problem" as I move forward in my collecting and I use AH more as a buyer.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by markf31

I can see myself having the same "problem" as I move forward in my collecting and I use AH more as a buyer.

Regarding cards, I'm not concerned about purchasing on ebay, especially if holdered - I rarely get my cost back when buying graded singles form AH's. I also purchase a lot of photos on ebay. But for everything else, I scour the auction houses. A lot of the stuff I buy from AH's is tough to put a price on, so also tough to feel much regret over prices paid

[E93]

Originally Posted by packs

The thing I hate about auction houses is the extended time. I just don't understand the principle behind it.

The other night in Legendary there were two items I really wanted and a set amount I was willing to pay for the pair. The first ended for a little less than I was willing to go so since the second was still open I put one final bid in on it and won it. Had the first not gone for less, i would not have put another bid on the second. This is particular to the way Legendary closes with each lot on individual 30-minute rule times. In other auctions where the whole auction stays open, when bidding on one item on my list get higher than I want to spend on it, I can redirect those resources to other items. This happens a ton in big auctions like REA. So there is a bit of the principal behind it.
jimB

[packs]

That's a good point. I didn't consider that. There's always good and bad. I just find extended time a frustrating aspect of auction houses. I still love auction houses. They have the better items.

[smtjoy]

I used to agree that the open/close all lots after no bidding was the best to maximizing consignors totals. After competing in the last couple Legendary I not so sure, one I just didn't see many lots going for cheap last two nights and don't really think they are leaving money on the table (which I find impressive with all the negative issues going on with them).

I went into this last auction having a strong desire for 4 lots but I knew I could only afford 1-2. Now two auctions ago I was shut out and learned my lesson that you cant treat it like the other auctions where you can in essence wait till 4am to put your bids in and win some just because people went to bed (I have been on both sides of this). Back to the bidding the lesson I learned in Legendary auctions with lots closing, if you have limited funds chasing a few lots you really have to bid your lots up on the last day a few hours prior to extended, for instance my top item I wanted around 8pm still had about 12 bidding increments left till my max, figuring these could take up to 15 minutes each, theoretically I might not be out bid for 3 hours into the extended time and at that time the other three lots I wanted would easily all be closed. So two hours prior to extended I started to be top bidder on the 2-4 lots and rebid any time I was knocked down. Sure enough I ended getting bid up on two so that at the start of extended I was up on only 2 and my 3-4 had already exceeded my bidding limits so now I was down to two and both had 8 increments left. Since I still had plenty money left in both and could cover both if I won them at 70% of max, i rebid each in extended till I was down to 6 bids on each then my top lot went off to my max. I was a little worried at this point as I was winning both but one at 80% and the other at 95% which would have been a strain to buy but getting a nice lot for 80% I knew I could flip them on ebay for a quick profit and come out ahead. I only had to sit about 5 minutes till I was outbid on my second lot and 6 minutes after that I won my top lot.

Now you could say if one more bid was placed on my top lot I would have been out and not won anything but in that case 3 of the 4 lots would have been well over my budget and I would not have won anyway and would have drove up the price on the #2 but you could also say any of those lots might not have got the forced early action and sold lower at the end because of it.

The other thing I find interesting is I know a number of dealers whos best auctions seem to be the open closes because they can use the no bidding till way late on all bargains and count on a number of people not waking up to re-bid. And if dealers are making their money then there is already money left on the table or they would not be bidding. Just food for thought, I find it interesting bidding in both.

[skelly]

I recently had a card on ebay for $99 starting bid and no one bid on it. The same card sold for $200+ in a catalog auction. Unless your just dumping say 50 vg commons from 1957, anything that could be considered desirable, consignment to one of the 2-3 big ebay sellers, or a catalog auction is the way to go in my opinion.

[Exhibitman]

I generally like having every lot close individually, except when I have to go somewhere auction night--like I did the first night this time--and lose everything as a result

[sycks22]

Certain auction houses will give you very nice advances while others stay away. Another bonus about AH's is what someone said earlier than you know you're going to get a genuine item. If you were buying a card for $10k+ would you trust 99% of dealers on ebay? I wouldn't.

[calvindog]

I'm curious -- doesn't just about everyone pay via PayPal on eBay nowadays? Doesn't PayPal and the credit card linked to PayPal protect you from eBay fraud? I bought a four figure card on eBay once which was returned as trimmed by PSA; the seller refused to refund my money despite his description of the card as "unaltered." I received a full refund after contacting either my credit card company or PayPal (I don't remember which, it was over 10 years ago).

[oldjudge]

Jeff-as long as you designate the payment to come from the credit card you are fine. My first default on PayPal is a bank payment, which does not provide the added protection. For the reason you state, I always override this and use the credit card.

[drc]

As my retired professor dad sometimes says "It's not an either or. It's a both and." You can bid both at eBay and at auction houses.