Authenticating 19th century baseball cabinet cards

[Detroit58]

Hello my name is Shaun and I’m a new member. I’ve stumbled on this site in the past doing Baseball research and was recommended to join when I tried a new lead on authenticating 19th century cabinet cards. I’m sure I’m not alone in the problems I’m running into. I collected cards as a kid in the 80’s and 90’s and moved on to other stuff as an adult that forced me to learn photograph history. I made my way back to cards about 5 years ago and realized the photograph history is very helpful in finding baseball cabinet cards. I picked a couple images of big name players and went about trying to authenticate them. No luck. I was discouraged and gave up for about 3 years. My first son being born lit a fire a little while back and I got back in it. Still the same problem. I’ve contacted the three companies. They pretty much need proof the cards have already been identified as the player by somebody else. I’ve sent scans of players in uniform and they still need 2 sources showing proof it is what it is. With all the money there is in sports collectibles, why isn’t there a company who can authenticate an image. The 3 graders seem to tip toe around the subject. If that aspect is not worth it for them to do, why hasn’t anybody else stepped in. Seems like a lot of money being left on the table. Can anybody give me advice?

[jcmtiger]

Can you post pictures?

[Joe_G.]

Hello Shaun, welcome.

There are two steps here . . .

1) confirming the cabinet authentic (In your case, I presume 19th albumen print).

2) Correctly identifying the subject matter.

Step 1 can be executed with some confidence, step 2 can be difficult. As Joe Maples requested, share some images and we can collectively suggest how significant the 2nd hurdle would be.

[oldjudge]

The second part of what Joe mentioned is certainly the more difficult part. If the player is from a well known team and is in uniform the process is easier. If it is an early image and not in uniform then identification is problematic. Collectors often see what they want to see and, unless the image has good provenance (like coming from the family of the player), the odds are against the image being of someone famous.

[Detroit58]

I’ll start with a uniformed player. 1900 Cincinnati Reds. Edwin “Ed” Scott. PSA and SGC have seen it. No go. They want proof. Is a uniform and FBI facial recognition techniques enough proof. How about a turn of the century mount on the card? I tried to upload the photo twice. I don’t know what I’m doing wrong.

[swarmee]

Post the image on a photo sharing website and then use the URL to create an image link. Images uploaded to this site will be too small to properly inspect items like this or see facial features.

[jcmtiger]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

The second part of what Joe mentioned is certainly the more difficult part. If the player is from a well known team and is in uniform the process is easier. If it is an early image and not in uniform then identification is problematic. Collectors often see what they want to see and, unless the image has good provenance (like coming from the family of the player), the odds are against the image being of someone famous.

Yup Jay, those cabinets with no uniform can be somebodies relative, not ball player.

[Casey2296]

Uploading photos for Shaun.
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[bgar3]

I know I am in the minority, but if you already know the identity of the player, like Scott above, and know the photo is authentic, why in the world do want to pay to encapsulate it? Personally I would never pay more for a 19th century image just because it was encased. (By the way, I am not saying that image is or isn’t Scott, I am taking your word for it.) If the photos you have are professional players there is a very good chance someone on here will Id them for you. If they can’t Id them, I don’t believe there much chance a grading company will be able to Id them.

[Baseball Rarities]

Looks like Jim O'Rourke in two of the photos - #s 1 and 4 on the top row as they show up on my screen.

[oldjudge]

Jim O’Rourke is definitely photo 1 and, in my mind, probably but not certainly photo 4.

[Detroit58]

The reason I need the images/cabinets slabbed is because the auction houses tell me they need to be slabbed to sell. The common response I get from auction houses presently: 1. We want to get these slabbed at your cost before we sell them. If I bother to ask if the listing is contingent on the encapsulation, they never include that answer in their response. What happens is they stop responding when they realize the graders don’t authenticate or they go ahead and sell it unslabbed under a very vague listing that is doomed to fail. Sometimes they just send it back. 2. Prove it. I thought that is part of why the auctions are taking money as a third party. Is that unprofessional or what? 3. The latest greatest from the wonderful auction houses-We will not confirm or deny it is said player. One of the auction houses told me “don’t show me nothing unless they’re in a uniform.” I apologized to him and sent him a scan of a Bruce Petway snapshot in Detroit Stars uniform with his catchers glove doing pre game warm ups. He hasn’t responded to me since. The reason I want to sell 19th century cabinets is that I am an aging man with a young family. My wife was born a war refugee and is a cancer survivor. Trying to provide my family a better life is the least I can do. If slabbing is worthless, what’s my move eBay? What’s a Gilbert & Bacon Jim O’Rourke worth? I don’t understand with all the money in baseball, how is eBay the move?

[Baseball Rarities]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Jim O’Rourke is definitely photo 1 and, in my mind, probably but not certainly photo 4.

Jay - FWIW, I did a little Googling and according to SABR, photo 4 is O'Rourke.

https://sabr.org/bioproj/person/jim-orourke-2/

[Webster]

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[the-illini]

Regardless of who the owner thinks is on that cabinet card, if you are looking to sell it no one is going to authenticate that it is Jim O'Rourke and no one is going to pay what an O'Rourke cabinet would go for.

Why? It looks nothing like him.

[kkkkandp]

Originally Posted by Webster

Attachment 466770

Attachment 466771

If your comparative images had red squiggly lines, they would be way more believable!

[Webster]

Farmer Vaughn Cabinet. Not only no uniform, but sold here on BST last month.

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[Detroit58]

For the record I apologized again. There is no point of authenticating for me so I will leave the forum with my tail between my legs. It’s been fun gentleman. As you were.

[Detroit58]

1 more post. Tell him I don’t need to know what he thinks of the O’Rourke, I already know.

[Detroit58]

Alright last post. I really didn’t know the kahoona had direct ties to this forum. I would have bet he did, but I just stumbled on this trying to authenticate.