Cobb/Cobb card in Goodwin Auction

[JP]

Though it is a half-grade less than the Cobb/Cobb in the REA auction, I feel the one in the Goodwin auction presents much nicer. That being said, with buyer's premium it is already over $135,000 and the auction's still running. Has this card broken out of all previous price points or is this a registry battle that we see on occasion? (see the PSA 7 Lundgren in the last SCP for an example of what I mean) Is this similar to what we saw a few years ago when major separation developed between Planks and Magies? Like Wagners, will we never see this card for under $100k again?

[JP]

I'm intrigued that the Cobb/Cobb seems to have broken out to a new price level, and no one has anything to say about it. In 2005, Wagners of any grade eclipsed $100k, and then their price appreciation accelerated at an astronomical rate. In just five years, the price of Wagners tripled. In 2015, may we see $250-300k as the base price for a Cobb/Cobb?

[teetwoohsix]

I don't know which way to look at it-are serious collectors bidding it up that high because of the true rarity of the card and they want to add it to their collection,or is it seeing this type of escalated bidding due to the # of "investors" who only care about the card for the potential return 2-5 years from now?

Clayton

[ChiefBenderForever]

I thought they slightly overpaid about 100k or more.

[JP]

I feel like it was an overpayment as well BUT in a couple of years might this look like a hell of a steal? Cobb/Cobb is far more rare than Wagner after all...

[Chicago206]

Originally Posted by JP

I feel like it was an overpayment as well BUT in a couple of years might this look like a hell of a steal? Cobb/Cobb is far more rare than Wagner after all...

Rarity is just one part of the magical value equation!

[Steve D]

and $695 for a PSA 4 Shag Shaughnessy!

Steve

[JP]

I think Larry's PSA 4 Shag sold for $800 on BST here, so that price isn't unprecedented.

[Potomac Yank]

Originally Posted by teetwoohsix

I don't know which way to look at it-are serious collectors bidding it up that high because of the true rarity of the card and they want to add it to their collection,or is it seeing this type of escalated bidding due to the # of "investors" who only care about the card for the potential return 2-5 years from now?

Clayton

*

After a while, it's easy to tell the difference between a collector, and a portfolio flipper.

The key words are:

Registry.
Half- grade.
Crossover. ... (not to be confused with Passover)
Value equation.
Investment.
Rare. ... (the word has lost its meaning)
SCP.
PSA - SGC - GAI.
That's just a start, I'm sure you can add more.
Notice, they rarely talk about the card ... It's always about the Munee.

Now ... In what group does JP, and a few others fit in?

[JP]

Actually, my entire point was about the card and its transcedence. Not a single word I wrote has to do with flipping...but I appreciate you once again pulling something irrelevant out of thin air. I think collectors may finally be appreciating the true signficance of this card to the hobby.

Furthermore, how is my speculation of reasons why OTHERS may spend so much on a card (financial interest included) any reflection on me? I didn't buy that Cobb. I rarely bUy a card with interest in selling it years from now. I either try to find a card to flip immediately to fund a purchase for my long-term collection, or I buy a card with the intent of hiding it away for decades.

[Potomac Yank]

None of us are able to read .....

It was all about the card.

[JP]

You may want new reading glasses old-timer. The ones you're wearing are making you read too much into things. My post was, in fact, all about the card, just like the thread title.

[lharri3600]

The shag i sold was psa 5 old mill

Originally Posted by jp

i think larry's psa 4 shag sold for $800 on bst here, so that price isn't unprecedented.

[ChiefBenderForever]

If this one sold for 135k then the one in REA should sell for about 260k

[JP]

Originally Posted by lharri3600

The shag i sold was psa 5 old mill

And it was a beaut too, Larry! I'm glad I said "think" instead of "know."

Originally Posted by JohnnyHarmonica

If this one sold for 135k then the one in REA should sell for about 260k

Only if grade is the deciding factor. That Goodwin Cobb/Cobb presented WAY better in my opinion. Perfect centering, beautiful registration...

[ChiefBenderForever]

I agree JP but who is gonna look at the front.

[Potomac Yank]

Originally Posted by JP

You may want new reading glasses old-timer. The ones you're wearing are making you read too much into things. My post was, in fact, all about the card, just like the thread title.

*

Munee was never indicated in any single one of your post.

*

*

*

Tell us JP, how long have you been feeling this way?

[JP]

Originally Posted by JohnnyHarmonica

I agree JP but who is gonna look at the front.

Ha! I love it...my favorite post of the day, Johnny!

[JP]

Originally Posted by Potomac Yank

Tell us JP, how long have you been feeling this way?

How long have I been feeling that the Cobb/Cobb has transcended its old price points? I guess about 48 hours now. Everytime I see one of your posts, I look for a decoder ring. I know they are supposed to be humorous, I just don't always get them...

[Potomac Yank]

Originally Posted by JP

How long have I been feeling that the Cobb/Cobb has transcended its old price points? I guess about 48 hours now. Everytime I see one of your posts, I look for a decoder ring. I know they are supposed to be humorous, I just don't always get them...

*

Every single thread, or post that you've been involved in since you arrived on this forum ... is about MUNEE.

I know that to some, this is difficult to accept, but this forum was originally a vintage card forum, and not the Wall Street Journal.

All I'm saying is that this forum is drifting more, and more away from the actual vintage card topics.

It makes collectors want to look for a real VINTAGE forum.
If that's what Leon wants ... that's what he 's going to get.

JP, you don't need a decoder ring ... you need a course in English comprehension.

[JP]

Ah, you're finally typing in English...much easier to read. I've been here for 3 or 4 years, and not every post has been about money.

Money in many ways drives the growth of interest in the hobby...it makes headlines. Just because I talk about the price of the Cobb/Cobb doesn't make the hobby all about money for me. Money, in this case, is a very relevant thing to talk about as we just saw an unprecedented price for a card. That in itself should spark some interesting conversation about THE CARD itself.

[frankb22]

I for one have grown increasingly skeptical of Goodwin auctions. A few auctions back they had t206 lower level HOFers in psa9 going for close to
50k. Either they have the greatest customer base in the universe or
something is not kosher.

[JP]

Also, Joe P., there is no need to be a fatalist. This board isn't dying. And you don't need to take your ball and play elsewhere. There's plenty of room here to talk about everything.

[Chicago206]

I see nothing wrong with this posting. It IS about the "munee" in this case. And like it or not Joe, "munee" is a KEY ingredient to the hobby. If you want a hobby that doesnt have such a focus on the "munee", then why dont you start a collection of washers.

[JP]

Watch it, Chicago, Joe's spelling is "cuntayjus"!

[Potomac Yank]

It had to be something that didn't go down well with someone in a higher place.

I can speak in two, or three languages, but this guy wouldn't get it in any of them.

Most of the current newbies have their eyes on the ball, but there must have been a forum that did a little house cleaning, because you have a couple that just plain don't want to get it.

Leon, whatever you did ... beg for forgiveness ... or you gonna end up with the Wall Street Journal.

[Chicago206]

Originally Posted by Potomac Yank

It had to be something that didn't go down well with someone in a higher place.

I can speak in two, or three languages, but this guy wouldn't get it in any of them.

Most of the current newbies have their eyes on the ball, but there must have been a forum that did a little house cleaning, because you have a couple that just plain don't want to get it.

Leon, whatever you did ... beg for forgiveness ... or you gonna end up with the Wall Street Journal.

Wall Street Journal? Its completely impossible to make a total seperation of cards and money Joe. Especially at the level of some of the collections here! There are plenty of hobbies that you can enjoy without worrying about dollars. I hear beanie babies are basically worthless, as are pogs, washers (as I recommended earlier), and possibly postcards or matchbooks. If you really want a "financial disconnect" in a hobby, why dont you try one of the above suggestions? But when a piece of cardboard sells for 6 figures, its IMPOSSIBLE to not discuss the financial aspect of it!

[Potomac Yank]

Originally Posted by Chicago206

Wall Street Journal? Its completely impossible to make a total seperation of cards and money Joe. Especially at the level of some of the collections here! There are plenty of hobbies that you can enjoy without worrying about dollars. I hear beanie babies are basically worthless, as are pogs, washers (as I recommended earlier), and possibly postcards or matchbooks. If you really want a "financial disconnect" in a hobby, why dont you try one of the above suggestions? But when a piece of cardboard sells for 6 figures, its IMPOSSIBLE to not discuss the financial aspect of it!

*

To the Flipper Twins:
Please don't think that I'm one of the thin skins on this forum, because if you do, you will be making another one of your mistakes.

Let me start with the sonny boy from the Second City.
Lad, I've handled more high ended cards before you were out of diapers, and discovered the T206 set.
If you doubt that, just ask Lew Lipset, Mark Macrae, Leon's partner Scott Brockelman, Dan MaKee and Jim Rivera.

One of your post was about you going to a big show that had 150 tables.
Lad, I don't know how to break this to you .....

Back in the mid '80's thru the '90's, I would select a weekend and fly out of the Big Apple to a show ... let's say the West Coast ... I would fly out say on a Thursday to Long Beach, and then fly out to a Lee show in San Fran on Friday night.
Each show had anywhere between 600 to 1000 tables.
Lots of cards .. lots of choices .. lots to learn about them .. lots of dealers .. much to learn about them, and visa versa .. lots of cardoholics .. much to learn from each other.
It was at a Lee show in San Fran, that I picked up one of my biggest finds, just before I rushed out to the airport to catch my flight to NYC.
I'll spare you all the details, but I'll tell that it was an old box of chocolates, filled with over 800 of the nicest grade T's that I ever seen.
I had been working on a T206 set of whatever grades.
That box of better grade T206 & T205's, forced me to work on two sets.
The Beater, and the Better set.
I only need one to complete the better, and eight for full completion of the beater.

JP ..... you're almost a mirror image of the Second City Kid, but not quite.

From what I've heard, and listened to what's coming from the mouth of The Flipper Twins ... they are not dummies But ... they're trying awfully hard to be.

If they listened more, and talked less ... they might become usefull contributers to the community.

There's nothing wrong with being a Flipper, my problem with them is that they don't have the cojones to acknowledge the fact ... They are what they are.

Oh yes, before I forget .....
On two occasions I happened to stand up, and defend The Second City Kid when he was being jumped by the inhabitants of Slab Haven.

I now want to apologize to the warm, and kind inhabitants of Slab Haven for my thoughtless action.

There, I said it ... Carry on!

[Chicago206]

Originally Posted by Potomac Yank

*

To the Flipper Twins:
Please don't think that I'm one of the thin skins on this forum, because if you do, you will be making another one of your mistakes.

Let me start with the sonny boy from the Second City.
Lad, I've handled more high ended cards before you were out of diapers, and discovered the T206 set.
If you doubt that, just ask Lew Lipset, Mark Macrae, Leon's partner Scott Brockelman, Dan MaKee and Jim Rivera.

One of your post was about you going to a big show that had 150 tables.
Lad, I don't know how to break this to you .....

Back in the mid '80's thru the '90's, I would select a weekend and fly out of the Big Apple to a show ... let's say the West Coast ... I would fly out say on a Thursday to Long Beach, and then fly out to a Lee show in San Fran on Friday night.
Each show had anywhere between 600 to 1000 tables.
Lots of cards .. lots of choices .. lots to learn about them .. lots of dealers .. much to learn about them, and visa versa .. lots of cardoholics .. much to learn from each other.
It was at a Lee show in San Fran, that I picked up one of my biggest finds, just before I rushed out to the airport to catch my flight to NYC.
I'll spare you all the details, but I'll tell that it was an old box of chocolates, filled with over 800 of the nicest grade T's that I ever seen.
I had been working on a T206 set of whatever grades.
That box of better grade T206 & T205's, forced me to work on two sets.
The Beater, and the Better set.
I only need one to complete the better, and eight for full completion of the beater.

JP ..... you're almost a mirror image of the Second City Kid, but not quite.

From what I've heard, and listened to what's coming from the mouth of The Flipper Twins ... they are not dummies But ... they're trying awfully hard to be.

If they listened more, and talked less ... they might become usefull contributers to the community.

There's nothing wrong with being a Flipper, my problem with them is that they don't have the cojones to acknowledge the fact ... They are what they are.

Oh yes, before I forget .....
On two occasions I happened to stand up, and defend The Second City Kid when he was being jumped by the inhabitants of Slab Haven.

I now want to apologize to the warm, and kind inhabitants of Slab Haven for my thoughtless action.

There, I said it ... Carry on!

Im not here to "buddy up" with you Joe. This isnt Survivor where I feel compelled to form "alliances". You stood up for me because you thought you were right. I stated my thoughts on the financial aspect of the hobby because I feel im right. Futhermore, I never said I attended a "big show with 150 tables". I said it was a "big show with 150 DEALERS". Big difference there, and 150 dealers is a BIG show by anyone's standards.

Now lets delve into the affectionate term you use to describe me...flipper. My working definition of a "flipper" is one who is primarily interested in the short term profitability of a given area. Because I made a zero financial gain in the selling off of most of my cards, I cannot be classified as a "flipper" by MY definition. I simply redirected my area of focus, and shed off some items that no longer fit my plan. If thats considered being a "flipper", then I suppose the term can easily be applied to most members here, as im sure most members here have sold a card or two.

I have no problem with your other term of endearment for me....Second City Kid has a lovely ring to it! In fact, I respectfully request that you continue to call me that in all subsequent writings to me. However, although I am towards the younger spectrum on this forum (im 35), I wouldnt exactly classify that as being a "kid". But then again, I look at 18-19 year olds as "kids", so thats simply a matter of perspective I suppose.

[Bicem]

the Cobb price is interesting, and I'm very curious as to what the REA Cobb will now sell for... but what a terrible thread this has become.

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by Bicem

the Cobb price is interesting, and I'm very curious as to what the REA Cobb will now sell for... but what a terrible thread this has become.

Agreed. The original post was fine, but it went downhill so fast I no longer know who to root for.

[JP]

Indeed...yet another derailed thread.

Ignoring completely Joe P.'s rant and Chicago's falling-on-deaf-ears defense...

I would be VERY surprised if the REA Cobb passed Goodwin's. Something about the crease at the bottom of the REA Cobb is visually distracting...

[teetwoohsix]

Just wanted to say,after reading this thread this morning,I was pretty shocked to see where it went!!And my question,which I felt was legit,may have spiraled the thread.I wasn't trying to accuse anyone of anything,just was expressing my thoughts on why this card would be reaching such insane prices all of a sudden.

I don't feel I can apologize for asking a legit question,or for what anyone else says,but just want to be clear that my intentions with my question were not to spiral the thread!!!

Sincerely,Clayton

[JP]

Clayton, I thought your post was great! Not sure why it sparked Joe P.'s finger pointing rant, but it expressed exactly some of the thoughts I was having. I wonder if the winner will ever become known. THAT would likely lead to some answers as to whether it is going to be socked away for a long-time or turned in a few years...

[Bicem]

not your fault at all Clayton, it was a good question.

[teetwoohsix]

Thanks guys-I appreciate that!!

[M's_Fan]

With apologies to the drama queens, this post is actually about cards:

I would not put the Cobb/Cobb in the Wagner class, or even in the Plank class, simply because it is the back alone that makes this card. You can complete a basic 526 card T206 set without the Cobb/Cobb, but you can't complete it without the Wagner or Plank.

Rare back collectors will always love this card, but they are a sub-set of the collector population. Collectors like me will look at this card and admire it, and then buy one with a less rare back for a fraction of the price and take that $50k and buy a bunch of other great cards.

So I think this puts a ceiling on the value and popularity of the Cobb/Cobb.

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by M's_Fan

You can complete a basic 526 card T206 set without the Cobb/Cobb, but you can't complete it without the Wagner or Plank.

Agreed. Except for that part about "526."

As Gary Coleman would have said... "Watchoo talkin' bout Willis???"


Seriously, you meant 524, right? Please.

[M's_Fan]

Originally Posted by Jim VB

Agreed. Except for that part about "526."

As Gary Coleman would have said... "Watchoo talkin' bout Willis???"


Seroiusly, you meant 524, right? Please.

Yes, typo, 524.

[E93]

I was a little surprised, but not shocked by the price. I think the card has been undervalued for a long time. It is a premier card in the hobby and has been for a long time. It is from the premier pre-war set and depicts one who is arguably the best player of all-time. Its rarity is legendary (4x-5x rarer than the Wagner). It would not surprise me if there is a time in the near future (or recent past) when this card cannot be gotten for less than 100k in any condition.
JimB

[E93]

P.S. I would be a lot more comfortable being the second person to pay over 100k for the card than the first. The next time it happens, be that REA or whenever, it establishes a new price point, if it has not already.
JimB

[three25hits]

Originally Posted by Potomac Yank

It makes collectors want to look for a real VINTAGE forum.

Civility is as rare as a Cobb back.

[calvindog]

I think the price was insane actually. Great card no doubt but when you consider that the Boston Garter Cobb went for 100 K, the Cobb/Cobb price from last night looks even stupider. And while cards often go up in value quickly (T206 Wanger for example), they don't go up 200% in one auction.

[JP]

Sounds like the finishing price of REA's Cobb will really dictate whether this card has hit a new level...or whether someone just had to have that particular card in Goodwin's.

[wonkaticket]

Hmmm I'm joning team Lichtman on Goodwin prices that make you go hmmm...

135k for that Cobb is very odd when a much nicer example is around the mid 40's right now...

Also PSA 3 American Beauty's in goodwin pulling $300+ when PSA 5 on ebay this week have gone cheaper heck even a 6 on ebay only went $130 or so more than Goodwins's PSA 3's?

Then you have the AUTH Sid Smith Brown Old Mill card which for 90% of the auction wasn't even listed as a "Brown" Old Mill card but just an AUTH Southern League card. That in it self is odd or sad Goodwin has a back set for sale in his auction in which Goodwin goes into detail about how tough Brown Old Mill's and Lenox cards are to find. Apparently they are very tough to find so tough in fact they may be for sale in your auction and you wouldn't even know.

Yet when the lot was corrected with less than a week to go it somehow pulled nice $$.

I can't say something is going on just looking at numbers and circumstances.

But I will say that if I you ever consign use Goodwin somehow he manages to get huge prices and get collectors to pay double and sometimes 5X what items are worth or have sold for how does he do it?

[cfc1909]

how about the Piedmont factory 42s

http://www.goodwinandco.com/LotDetai...value=piedmont 42&page=0&sortby=0&displayby=2&lotsperpage=100&category=1


http://www.goodwinandco.com/LotDetai...value=piedmont 42&page=0&sortby=0&displayby=2&lotsperpage=100&category=1


there was a SGC 60 Elberfeld Piedmont 42 in Huggins that went for $450 plus juice in their last auction

not sure what to make of these prices but I guess I better consign to Goodwin next auction.

[teetwoohsix]

Dang-that Rucker Piedmont 42 went for some bucks...........

[JP]

Jim, then this should go for $10k!

http://cgi.ebay.com/T206-Frank-Smith...#ht_1140wt_948

[sox1903wschamp]

Wow, the prices on the backs of these cards amaze me. I think they are neat and there certaintly is a huge market for them

[Mikehealer]

Originally Posted by cfc1909

how about the Piedmont factory 42s

http://www.goodwinandco.com/LotDetai...value=piedmont 42&page=0&sortby=0&displayby=2&lotsperpage=100&category=1


http://www.goodwinandco.com/LotDetai...value=piedmont 42&page=0&sortby=0&displayby=2&lotsperpage=100&category=1


there was a SGC 60 Elberfeld Piedmont 42 in Huggins that went for $450 plus juice in their last auction

not sure what to make of these prices but I guess I better consign to Goodwin next auction.

I was watching those lots in Goodwin as well as the one in Huggins. It looks like the Huggins lot was a bargain.