What’s the obsession with Mickey Mantle?

[irv]

A pretty good synopsis of the 1953 WS here. Billy Martin, imo, stole the show batting .500 in this series.
So many stars and HOF's on both teams. Makes me wish I was around then to witness it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0u_6yjqjG0

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by irv

A pretty good synopsis of the 1953 WS here. Billy Martin, imo, stole the show batting .500 in this series.
So many stars and HOF's on both teams. Makes me wish I was around then to witness it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0u_6yjqjG0

Thanks for posting the link to the highlights of the 1953 World Series. It brought back to me some very fond memories. I was in Junior H.S. that season surrounded by Dodger fans.

I was the only Yankees fan in the class. These guys were betting me that the Dodgers were finally going to beat the Yankees (after having lost to the Yankees in four previous W.S.).

Little did they figure that Billy Martin would spoil their hopes. Billy batted only .257 (his career BA) in the 1953 season. However, the rest of his numbers that season were his career
highs......151 Hits, 15 HRs, 75 RBIs, and 72 Runs. Was this an "ominous" omen to the the Dodgers ?
I would think so.

Well, after this 6-game W.S. ended, you could with all certainty say that Billy single-handedly beat the Dodgers.

Billy's 1953 World Series stats (6 games)…...
BA = .500
Hits = 12
HRs = 2
RBI = 8
SLG = .958

In 1982, I met Billy and told him this story....he just loved it, and then said...." the 1953 World Series was indeed the highlight of his playing career ".








TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[Lordstan]

Mantle's popularity is really not that difficult to understand.
1) Played in New York.
2) When He played in NY, the team went through an amazing run of success. Because of this he got national exposure doing heroic things on the biggest stage.
3) Good Looking
4) He was on the team that STAYED in NY after the Giants and Dodgers both abandoned the town.
5) Because the others left, there was no one in NY to share the spotlight with until 1969, when the Mets won the WS and he retired.
6) He was generally thought of as a good guy who liked to have fun. (Much like Bill Clinton. A party boy who women loved and men wanted to be). The Charisma factor.
7) He was pleasant with the media and fans unlike Mays, Williams and Dimaggio.
8) He was on the show circuit for almost 20yrs prior to passing away. During that time, he was great with fans. Don't underestimate the impact this had. People have truckloads of stories of Mays, Dimaggio and Williams acting surly and sometimes downright rude to fans lining up to pay them to sign their name. Certainly this soured many of those who saw those two as heroes. Mantle was 100% the opposite. He could be fall down drunk and would give you a perfect signature, smile at you, and shake your hand.
9) He was a classic hero story. Someone of immense talent who suffered yet still overcame. Now some of the suffering was his own doing, but almost everyone who saw him play before the knee injury felt he could have been even better. Who doesn't love the aw shucks guy who is given a bad break but still finds a way to succeed? Sounds like about a bazillion movies I have seen.

PS: Despite the Mantle could have been better if he didn't hurt his knee argument, there is no doubt in my mind that Mays was a better ballplayer. The reason I say this is that Mays had the handicap of playing in San Fransisco for all those years. He probably lost 5 hr a year to the stupid wind of Candlestick. If you add 5hr x 10yrs(1958-1968) brings him from 660 to 710hr. Who knows, maybe playing in Polo grounds and it's short LF porch gets him 10 more per year. Maybe he challenges the Babe and gets the accolades for breaking that record. Now you add in all the other numbers and it makes it an even stronger case.
Mays is not, and will never be, as popular in part because of being black at that time in our history, but also because he played in SF, and not NY, before the internet and other media would level the playing field. Additionally, there is almost no one who doesn't think he is a nasty human being. He was not particularly fan friendly when he played and in the 1980's on the show circuit he did noting to change that perception. Hard to be someone's hero if they think you're a prick.

[pokerplyr80]

Not much to say that hasn't been said, but titles and post season play make a legend. Being the face of the Yankees for a decade or two doesn't hurt either.

To draw a modern parallel few would argue Jeter was a better player than Griffey. But he's more popular among collectors for many of the same reasons Mantle is favored over Mays. And he never won a triple crown or was thought of as the best player in the league.

I don't think race has much to do with either case now, but I'm sure it was a factor in the 50s and 60s.

[mantlefan]

My screen name says it all!

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Lordstan

8) He was on the show circuit for almost 20yrs prior to passing away. During that time, he was great with fans. Don't underestimate the impact this had. People have truckloads of stories of Mays, Dimaggio and Williams acting surly and sometimes downright rude to fans lining up to pay them to sign their name. Certainly this soured many of those who saw those two as heroes. Mantle was 100% the opposite. He could be fall down drunk and would give you a perfect signature, smile at you, and shake your hand.


PS: Despite the Mantle could have been better if he didn't hurt his knee argument, there is no doubt in my mind that Mays was a better ballplayer. The reason I say this is that Mays had the handicap of playing in San Fransisco for all those years. He probably lost 5 hr a year to the stupid wind of Candlestick. If you add 5hr x 10yrs(1958-1968) brings him from 660 to 710hr. Who knows, maybe playing in Polo grounds and it's short LF porch gets him 10 more per year. Maybe he challenges the Babe and gets the accolades for breaking that record. Now you add in all the other numbers and it makes it an even stronger case.
Mays is not, and will never be, as popular in part because of being black at that time in our history, but also because he played in SF, and not NY, before the internet and other media would level the playing field. Additionally, there is almost no one who doesn't think he is a nasty human being. He was not particularly fan friendly when he played and in the 1980's on the show circuit he did noting to change that perception. Hard to be someone's hero if they think you're a prick.

I am not sure where you got #8. I got autographs from Joe DiMaggio and Ted Williams several times and every time they were as nice as can be. Mickey Mantle was not. He was as bad as Mays. I don't see how you can say those things about Mays and not apply them to Mantle. When it came to family, Mantle was even worse.

[Lordstan]

Originally Posted by rats60

I am not sure where you got #8. I got autographs from Joe DiMaggio and Ted Williams several times and every time they were as nice as can be. Mickey Mantle was not. He was as bad as Mays. I don't see how you can say those things about Mays and not apply them to Mantle. When it came to family, Mantle was even worse.

I was a dealer who set up at roughly 30-40 shows per year from 1979 to 1990ish. I saw Mantle and Dimaggio probably 30-40 times and Williams probably 15 times during that time span. Not only did i get hundreds if not thousands of autos signed by these men during that span, but i also interacted with all the customers.

While there were times that were exceptions Dimaggio, Williams, and Mays generally were surly, confrontational, and sometimes downright rude. As only ine example, I have had Dimaggio take baseballs he just signed and roll them on the table back to me instead of handing them to me. Stuff like this happened all the time to lots of people with all three of them.

I am glad you had positive experiences with them, but i can say with confidence that you are the exception.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by Lordstan

I was a dealer who set up at roughly 30-40 shows per year from 1979 to 1990ish. I saw Mantle and Dimaggio probably 30-40 times and Williams probably 15 times during that time span. Not only did i get hundreds if not thousands of autos signed by these men during that span, but i also interacted with all the customers.

While there were times that were exceptions Dimaggio, Williams, and Mays generally were surly, confrontational, and sometimes downright rude. As only ine example, I have had Dimaggio take baseballs he just signed and roll them on the table back to me instead of handing them to me. Stuff like this happened all the time to lots of people with all three of them.

I am glad you had positive experiences with them, but i can say with confidence that you are the exception.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

DiMaggio was well-known for being quite the egotistical ass (see "Joe DiMaggio," by Richard Ben Cramer). I obtained May's autograph in Atlantic City in 1997, actually flying out there specifically for that very purpose (it may have been the last show he did--not sure), since he was one of my primary heroes in the '60's. I made sure to keep up with his fantastic 1965 season (.317, 52 HR, 112 RBI) every week in the Sporting News, and watched every time the Giants were on the Saturday Game of the Week.

I thanked Willie quite politely after he autographed my official NL ball, and I'm not sure--he may have grunted in return! But what the heck. What meant the most to me was that he was WILLIE MAYS!

For congeniality, it was hard to beat Harmon Killebrew, Frank Howard and Hank Aaron!

Ah, the joys of collecting!

Larry

[egri]

Originally Posted by Lordstan

I was a dealer who set up at roughly 30-40 shows per year from 1979 to 1990ish. I saw Mantle and Dimaggio probably 30-40 times and Williams probably 15 times during that time span. Not only did i get hundreds if not thousands of autos signed by these men during that span, but i also interacted with all the customers.

While there were times that were exceptions Dimaggio, Williams, and Mays generally were surly, confrontational, and sometimes downright rude. As only ine example, I have had Dimaggio take baseballs he just signed and roll them on the table back to me instead of handing them to me. Stuff like this happened all the time to lots of people with all three of them.

I am glad you had positive experiences with them, but i can say with confidence that you are the exception.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

I never met Mantle or Mays, so I have no firsthand experience here, but it would seem to me that Mantle would get a pass more so than Mays, because regardless of who was worse, Mantle hasn’t been a jerk to anyone in 23 years. Mays was rude to somebody yesterday. Just my $0.02.

[JollyElm]

As a little kid, my idol was Willie Mays. He had been traded to the Mets and my dad would regale us with stories of how great he was as a NEW YORK Giant (my parents never got over the Giants and Dodgers leaving town). His 1972 card was the one every single kid wanted, even years later, and although he lost all of his steam, he was still considered godlike, as my friends and I would imitate his basket catch. Fast forward to the 80's and 90's and all I would ever hear is what a nasty a*shole he was in person, so I made a choice. I wanted my idol to remain as prominent in my mind as he was during my childhood, so the decision was made. As much as I wanted to see him in person, if he was appearing somewhere near me I simply wouldn't go and have my image of him shattered as he treated my autograph request with disdain. (With music, I had a similar, but not angry, attitude towards Pink Floyd. I love 'Wish You Were Here,' 'Animals,' 'Dark Side,' 'Meddle,' etc., so much that I chose never to see them in concert when the chance arose. Their music means so much to me that I simply didn't want to realize that it was 'simply' 4 English guys on a stage doing it. To me, it came from some sort of magical place. Your musical tastes may vary.) Of course, if you take my adoration for The Say Hey Kid and multiply it by millions of other people, then we can imagine what Mays has been faced with for more than half a century (I know, get a real problem). So as much as I hate to admit it, it's partially understandable why he became the way he is.

[irv]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Thanks for posting the link to the highlights of the 1953 World Series. It brought back to me some very fond memories. I was in Junior H.S. that season surrounded by Dodger fans.

I was the only Yankees fan in the class. These guys were betting me that the Dodgers were finally going to beat the Yankees (after having lost to the Yankees in four previous W.S.).

Little did they figure that Billy Martin would spoil their hopes. Billy batted only .257 (his career BA) in the 1953 season. However, the rest of his numbers that season were his career
highs......151 Hits, 15 HRs, 75 RBIs, and 72 Runs. Was this an "ominous" omen to the the Dodgers ?
I would think so.

Well, after this 6-game W.S. ended, you could with all certainty say that Billy single-handedly beat the Dodgers.

Billy's 1953 World Series stats (6 games)…...
BA = .500
Hits = 12
HRs = 2
RBI = 8
SLG = .958

In 1982, I met Billy and told him this story....he just loved it, and then said...." the 1953 World Series was indeed the highlight of his playing career ".








TED Z

T206 Reference
.

You're welcome, Ted.

Thanks for providing more info about the series and Billy Martin as well. Great childhood story!

I currently don't have a 52 Topps Billy Martin card in my collection but after reading this story and watching the vid, I am more eager now than ever to obtain one.