Vintage collection finds

[tesitzes24]

The resurrection of the Skydash collection thread got me wondering about other noteworthy vintage finds that I don't know about. Being pretty new to the vintage card market, I'm sure I could learn a lot by reading about these finds. I enjoyed reading all the old threads about Skydash, so I'm interested in what other famous finds are out there that I don't know about

[E93]

Good topic. There have been a number of well-documented finds. One of the most noteworthy was Rob Lifson's (REA) find of five T206 Cobb/Cobb backs in 1997. At the time it brought the known population of Ty Cobb backs from six to eleven. If I remember correctly, they were found in an album by a guy whose grandfather owned some kind of shop in Georgia circa 1910. Hopefully others will mention other finds.
JimB

[canjond]

Recently there was the mint set of 1915 CJs that walked into a show. If I remember correctly, the Jackson graded out to an SGC 96.

[bbcard1]

Some years old, but the Southern Cards find redefined the tobacco market. An old dude walked into a minor show in richmond with a K-Mart bag full of the most pristine T-206s ever seen. Several folks were involved in the original buy...if only I had done that show. Marco Rol and Kent Garnett ended up being two of the three who eventually bought the others out...don't remember the exact details...but the cards were unimaginably beautiful.

[barrysloate]

Jon- the Jackson actually graded an SGC 98!
And it was a 1914 CJ set.
The Oregon find of roughly 1400 Old Judges certainly was one of my favorites. And for post war, the 1952 Topps unopened case was truly amazing.

[tbob]

Don't forget the original "Southern Find" in which an elderly man from Louisiana sold a large box of beautiful T213-2s and 3s in the mid 80's. I was one of the 4 buyers and almost every high grade Coupon in the hobby derived from this find. I don't remember the exact number of cards or the breakdown but I believe each of the 4 of us had 4-5 Series 2 Cobbs. I went with T213-3s after the HOFers were divied out and missed by one card having a complete creaseless T213-3 set with an additional card which Lipset said was only rumored to exist. Unfortunately I sold the set in the late 80's to Bill Mastro for a pittance compared to what it would sell for now. I spotted a lot of the HOFers in lots in subsequent Mastro auctions and at least once Bill referred to the "Southern Find."
A footnote- there were several overprinted back T213-3s. I know I had two Cobbs, McGraw, Bender and some commons. The overprinted factory backs are extremely tough!

[canjond]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Jon- the Jackson actually graded an SGC 98!
And it was a 1914 CJ set.
The Oregon find of roughly 1400 Old Judges certainly was one of my favorites. And for post war, the 1952 Topps unopened case was truly amazing.

Thanks Barry - I hadn't recalled it was a 1914 set - even more amazing.

[tbob]

One of the 4 collectors who were in The Southern Find was John England. He later sold his card collection to Larry Fritsch for a huge chunk of change. I wonder if those T213s are still in Larry's personal collection or if they were sold over the years.

[Exhibitman]

I think I posted this originally in 2006 but I can't find it, so I thought I'd throw it out there again. It is the only prewar "find" I got in on at the ground level:

I was invited into a transaction in progress with the nephew of a homeowner who found a box of vintage tobacco cards in her attic. The cards included in the find broke down into two categories, baseball and boxing. The group included two T202s, six T205s, five T207s, approximately 40 T219s, and ten T227s. The most interesting thing I realized on viewing the lot was something that should be obvious but that we often forget: T card distribution was entirely dependent on the smoking habits of the tobacco customers. Every card represents another pack of coffin nails purchased, ostensibly by an adult who either saved the cards or gave them to a child. In this case, it was obvious that the smoker in the house was an Honest Long Cut loyalist. All of the T219s and T227s were Honest Long Cut branded, as were 5 of the 6 T205s. The sole other T205 was a Sovereign. One of the T207s was a Recruit, one a Napoleon, and three were Broad Leaf backs (how I wish that the smoker had been loyal to that brand!). The three Broad Leaf cards included Alex McCarthy (one of the rarest cards), Phelan and Otto Miller (Brooklyn), while the Napoleon was Golden and the Recruit was Germany Schaefer. The T205s included Ed Walsh (2 cards), Wiltse right ear showing variation, Moriarty, Tinker (the Sovereign back), and Ford (dark cap). From T227 we found one baseball player, Rube Marquard, three boxers (Johnson, Attell and Coulon), wrestler Zybsko and a few of the miscellaneous sports and pseudosports subjects.

[tbob]

For those who haven't seen it, this is the overprinted factory back T213-3 Cobb.

[Hot Springs Bathers]

Bob- What year was the big Southern Find. I started visiting John's shop above Vivian's Books in I believe 1976. What a wonderful place.

I purchased my first T206s from him and on one trip back down the mountain I kept asking myself over and over if I messed up paying $4.00 for an Old Judge Bushong?

Another trip I bought a 1958 Topps Football set for $5.00 and remember John telling me football cards would never be worth anything because people had no sentimental attachment to pro football. Probably still true here in the South.

[tbob]

Hi Mike. I used to love climbing those stairs and going to John's place in the 80's and early 90's. He sold his entire personal collection to Larry Fritsch for a ton of money but still had his store inventory. I believe he sold some of it off to Dick DeLong who opened up a shop for a while in Fort Smith, now closed. John eventually moved his place to Phoenix Avenue in Ft. Smith but his heart wasn't in it and his best stuff was long gone. He eventually sold out for good and now collect jazz records.
I think the find was around 1984, not sure exactly when. Time slips by so fast! I was contacted by John and Dick and we had one other partner whose son is now a 54 member and has a nice collection of pre-war of his own. Everyone's T213s are long gone except for the one partner (whose name I do not mention because I don't have permission and for security sake) who I believe may still have her original 1/4 share of cards, don't know. Her share would consist of T213-2s, Kottons and other cards if she didn't sell them. Even her son is not 100% positive if they are satshed in the attic or sold.

[Tabe]

Thanks for the stories, guys. I love reading about great finds.

Anybody got more details on the 1952 Topps find? I know Alan Rosen was involved but I've heard wildly varying descriptions of the quantities involved and exactly how they were stored, whether they were unopened, etc.

Tabe

[tbob]

About 10 years ago I was contacted by a guy who sells on ebay and lives in the area about a guy who wandered in to his business (the guy used to have a restaurant with tons of 60's cards displayed on the walls) and said he had some cards for sale, pre-war. I walked down there and he had a handful of T205s. I bought 2 Mattys, one VG+ the other EXMT and a NRMT Dooin. The guy who called me bought a common and a HOFer also. The seller was from Louisiana and he supposedly had a whole set of T205s plus some Victorys and Kottons and was going to be back. We started wondering about the cards the more we talked to him because we had the sneaky feeling the cards were actually his brother's He was supposed to get back with us but never did. I STILL feel that one of these days someone from Louisiana is going to turn loose of a large collection of Victorys in to the hobby but it hasn't happened yet....

[gabrinus]

Bob, most of the T213s went back to Delong but there are about 25 left along with a few General Baking, Kottons, etc. If Mr. Delong had not sold his collection before ebay he would be one of the top collectors in US-------I bought a T216 Wagner and E98 Cobb from him as a kid for roughly $20 apiece, a D303 Lajoie for $15. He had a T207 Lowdermilk in the store. Great guy.....those were the days.

[FUBAR]

Originally Posted by Tabe

Thanks for the stories, guys. I love reading about great finds.

Anybody got more details on the 1952 Topps find? I know Alan Rosen was involved but I've heard wildly varying descriptions of the quantities involved and exactly how they were stored, whether they were unopened, etc.

Tabe

The story i read is they were opened and sorted and it contained 71 Mantle cards..... 40 with good centering and 31 off center. All in pristine condition! and it involved two buyers because the first guy couldn't afford to buy all the cards, but they were bought for a song and a dance , graded and resold for huge profits.

[Matthew H]

Originally Posted by FUBAR

The story i read is they were opened and sorted and it contained 71 Mantle cards..... 40 with good centering and 31 off center. All in pristine condition! and it involved two buyers because the first guy couldn't afford to buy all the cards, but they were bought for a song and a dance , graded and resold for huge profits.

That find was not in packs. He did find a huge sum of unopened material from the 50's but I think that stuff was sold unopened.

Here he speaks openly of highway robbery:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjckQ...eature=related

[tbob]

I've never seen such unanimity in the comments under a You Tube Video, ever. Everyone who commented hates him and thinks he is a sleaze.

[FUBAR]

Originally Posted by Matthew H

That find was not in packs. He did find a huge sum of unopened material from the 50's but I think that stuff was sold unopened.

Here he speaks openly of highway robbery:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjckQ...eature=related

I meant they were opened by the owner before they were bought, not the buyer opening them.. two ways to interpret my wording.. .my bad

[Matthew H]

Originally Posted by FUBAR

I meant they were opened by the owner before they were bought, not the buyer opening them.. two ways to interpret my wording.. .my bad

I get it.

He also "found" 500 unopened boxes of Topps and Bowman. I think they were from 1954-55.

Unfortunately there are probably still a handful of people who haven't heard of catalog auctions or the internet and still call the guy.

[FUBAR]

can you imagine buying 90 mint mantles... what does each one got for nowadays 75k?? 100k?

at 100k... that's 9 million $$ plus they other cards.... this had to be a 15 million dollar + find at today's card values.. crazy!

I would feel guilty taking a guy who doesnt know better for one card let alone over 15,000 cards!

[steve B]

What year was the 52 find? I recall hearing about it, but not the year.

Before I get to my thoughts on the find a couple things
First time I've seen Mr Mint in anything other than a suit, I didn't recognise him at first.
Also the first time I've heard him speak where he didn't sound obnoxious.
Quincy? Framingham? Is he a boston guy? I always figured him as a New York City guy.

If it was mid 80's the deal might not have been such a ripoff. One thing to remember is that when large collections turn up there usually aren't that many people who can come up with enough money. He says he borrowed 25K, and still only was in for 10% of the deal. Even assuming he put none of his own cash into it That's 250K someone had to pay and then wait till the cards sold. And that couldn't be done quickly without temporarily lowering the price.

So sure, The stuff was probably worth way more, but how many dealers or collectores could have paid that without having a quick return available.

A

[Matthew H]

Look how he handles this guys collection. This is only a couple of years ago:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXNgJXt7cMY

I read in the comments that this guys wife died, he had surgery and had to sell his life's collection.

[dwr11]

Originally Posted by steve B

What year was the 52 find? I recall hearing about it, but not the year.

Before I get to my thoughts on the find a couple things
First time I've seen Mr Mint in anything other than a suit, I didn't recognise him at first.
Also the first time I've heard him speak where he didn't sound obnoxious.
Quincy? Framingham? Is he a boston guy? I always figured him as a New York City guy.

If it was mid 80's the deal might not have been such a ripoff. One thing to remember is that when large collections turn up there usually aren't that many people who can come up with enough money. He says he borrowed 25K, and still only was in for 10% of the deal. Even assuming he put none of his own cash into it That's 250K someone had to pay and then wait till the cards sold. And that couldn't be done quickly without temporarily lowering the price.

So sure, The stuff was probably worth way more, but how many dealers or collectores could have paid that without having a quick return available.

A

Mr. Mint's 1952 Topps find was in 1986. From what I remember he purchased everything himself including 65 1952 Mantle's. I think I remember hearing he paid something like $80,000 for everything and sold everything for $310,000. After he made the purchase he was very nervous that he spent to much and blew a lot of the Mantle's out with ads in SCD for around $2500.00 each.

[steve B]

The attitude he shows in the video is the Mr mint I usually think of. And he comes across worse there than in print interviews.

And I'd have tossed him when he tossed the jersey....

But the prices aren't horrible considering a lot of it was lower grade stuff.
Like the set he went through mentioning the stars that had holes. And the others where some of the stars were VG or creased or torn.

And that's coming from someone who really doesn't like Mr Mint. Too much flash and arrogance, plus the one time I called to ask about something he was selling he never returned the call.


The 52 find being 1986 makes sense, I was only paying a little attention to the hobby then. 3-4x profit isn't unusual for a large lot of stuff in any collectible field. Remember, back then 80K would buy an ok house in much of New England, and a whole lot more many other places. Figure on taking that much and tying it up in cards for maybe 2-5 years. Many stamp guys only offer about 10% of the catalog value on average stuff. Mostly because it will be in inventory for years at 50% of catalog. Below average stuff and hard to sell stuff gets even less interest. I just bought a small collection for $100 that probably cataloged around 300. The full time dealer that looked at it first didn't even make an offer.

Steve B

[Leon]

Since we have a ton of new collectors, here is a cut and paste of my one and only "find" which was really just finding the guy who inherited them. I don't know if a find is a "find" unless you are digging through stuff and actually find something...but here it is anyway...It was exciting for me..

this is cut and pasted from around 2005.....


I believe I have seen the last small group of inherited cards from the gentleman in Northern California. It was a very informative situation
in that I got to see a nice PCL collection untainted by modern collectors/dealers. It looks like almost all of the cards have been put into a scrapbook at one time as a majority exhibit strong corners and
back damage, though many backs were spared too....... It was neat to see how they were really collected and in what type of numbers, relative to each other. I believe the only cards I missed out on were all 159 of the Colgans, Red Borders, and Tin Tops (if any), and about 5-7 M101-1/2's....Nothing I could do...they just got sold.......The total for all of the cards I got was about 732'ish. I will probably only sell these through ebay or to a large auction house. I am keeping everything I have an interest in, as utmost and foremost, I am still a collector. Including what I had posted before the grand total breakout is/was (several cards have been sold already to happy board/ebay members):

D310 (12) w/weaver fr....overall gd-vg
D311 (61) all different pr-ex
E90-1 (18) w/Jackson (pr-sold), Joss..overall pr-fr
E90-2 (1) Wagner - nice SGC 20....2 moderate creases
E90-3 (2) common and pr-
E101 (9) w/Evers, Jennings pr-fr....major back damage..
E136 Zeenut '11 (113) w/Weaver in fr...others vg'ish
E136 Zeenut '12 (36) gd-vg+/ex
E136 HR Kisses (2) gd
E136 Zeenut '13 (6) all with coupon
E136 Zeenut '14 (23) 6 with coupon 17 without coupon
E137 Zeenut '15 (67) 24 with coupon w/McMullen 43 w/o coup.w/Risberg, Lefty Williams
E137 Zeenut '16 (1) with coupon
E224 Texas Tommy (5) w/Marsans, w/uncatalogued
E-Unc Big Eater (3) w/ horizontal ex, 1 in gd-vg, 1 pr
H-unc Western Playground (40) complete set vg+
T4 Obak- (2) still unidentified but not Weaver.
T206 Old Mill- (23) w/Cobb, Evers, Chance, Willis.pr-fr
T206 Sweet Caporal ?(1) Cobb 350-460 series...pr.
T212-1 Obak (47) nice mix of framed/frameless
T212-2 Obak (116) about 25 different slogans.. pr-ex-mt
T212-3 Obak (131) w/Weaver pr-nrmt/mt
T217 Mono (8) 3 that don't have back damage......pr-gd
T222 Fatima- (7) all common, 1 high number in fr, 2 cut in half, pr....

wish I could find more of these "finds"...but will just go back to
whittling away like I have been for the past several years......
regards all

[Exhibitman]

Not to defend Rosen, who is thoroughly obnoxious, but we are (mostly) retail buyers and collectors and we tend to think of things as retail buyers and collectors. Rosen is strictly a businessman--his only purpose is to make money on the deal and get out as quickly as he can. His claim to buy it all and pay cash is very powerful stuff, especially for someone who is basically turning over a box of cards he found in an attic. As anyone who's done Ebay knows, retail is work. If you want to wring out every last dime from a group, you have work to do; if you just want cash in hand fast with no effort, wholesalers like Rosen are going to get their discount on the deal. Yeah, the Mantles retailed for more than the price of the whole purchase but Rosen had to put up the cash to buy them all and take the risk of holding and selling them all.

[tbob]

It's not just the fact he shafted the guy so bad on the 56T, 58T, 62T and 63T, it was his whole attitude. Like a poster mentioned earlier, his general demeanor came shining through. Compare the way he treated this gentleman to the way Doug Allen treated Lionel Carter and his wife when Carter decided to consign his collection. Night and day. I would have booted his sorry butt out when the Braves jersey which the guy took such pride in and got autographed was tossed aside and got oil on it like so much refuse.

[Hot Springs Bathers]

It was guys like him and the local guys who owned shops that couuldn't name the teams in the American League and charged 8 year olds double Beckett that drove me away from the hobby in the early 90's.