For those of you with some spare holiday change...

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Posted By: ramram

http://cgi.ebay.com/1889-Old-Judge-CALIFORNIA-LEAGUE-V-Dailey-Oaklands_W0QQitemZ8729979472QQcategoryZ86839QQrdZ1 QQcmdZViewItem

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Posted By: Rhys

I viewed this card in person at the Chicago Sun Times Show (before it was graded). The stuff on the front is not staining but is actually dirt which I am 100% positive could be removed leaving a clean EX condition card behind. The image is crystal clear and is one of the better looking California League Old Judges I have ever seen. Whomever picks this up will get a good value in my opinion.

Rhys

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Posted By: Kevin Cummings

Wow - this is as nice a photo as I've seen on an Old Judge card. It's going to be worth a trip to the Fort Washington show just to see it in person. I'm a little disappointed that Terry Knouse has made it a private auction so we can't see who has already placed the first bid on it and what hobby titans will be duking it out at the end. Also, my memory is failing me, but I could swear I've seen or heard of another Dailey someplace and I can't recall whether it was in Lipset's book, a major auction or whether I just imagined it. Anyone else recall seeing one?

Rhys - you've already seen the card. I know this will probably horrify the purists among us and I don't mean to turn this into yet another alteration debate, but if you are certain it is just dirt, doesn't it seem odd that it wasn't cleaned off before encapsulation? It certainly seems like it could be dirt and not stains (since staining would most certainly have bled through to the back), but isn't the back awful clean given how dirty the front is?

And speaking of the back, the description mentions a crease in the upper right hand corner. My web browser at work is horrendous so that may be the reason, but I don't see any crease on the back. I doubt SGC would have missed a rebacking job.

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Posted By: Jay Miller

Kevin--You have an amazing memory. Yes, at least one more Dailey exists. I will try to post a scan later.
Rhys--I share Kevin's confusion as to why the card would be simply dirty and not cleaned. From the scan it looks stained but only on the borders with virtually none of this staining makeing its way to the back. Also, the chipping, if it is that, in the upper right corner does not impact the back. I spoke to Terry and I think he mentioned that there was some seperation of the photo from the back. Did you notice this and if so how severe was it?

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Posted By: Terry

I wanted to add a couple things that I did not mention in the description, but will revise in the next day or two. Kevin - I referred to a crease in the upper right corner - if you look hard enough you can see a faint wrinkle, not so much a crease, on the front of the card. The card was not rebacked - the paper has unifrom color, a slight touch of moisture staining. I think dad did show it to a gentleman that does remove dirt / stains from cards and felt that the dirt was more suface than staining. Again, the back has very light moisture staining - not a hard stain that one would think would be on the back if the front was actually stained into the paper. However, for all those people that know my father, in NO WAY are we going to tamper with the card. If the buyer wants to have it 'cleaned' or take a silk stocking to the front of the card to try to clean the front of the card, than best of luck to that person. The image is very clear and crisp for an old judge. I have not seen another Dailey, but Lew did mention in his book that Dailey was one of the confirmed Califonia League cards at the time in which he wrote his book. Dad will have the card at Philly for anyone that wants to take a look at it. I think it is a great looking California League card - even with the ?? on the front..

Terry

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Posted By: Kevin Cummings

Terry:

I bought my first Old Judge from your dad at a Gloria Rothstein White Plains show (Tim Keefe, 1/19/1997). He has always been friendly and I believe his honesty is unimpeachable, so my comments were in no way meant to imply that he or you had done any thing to the card.

It just does seem odd that the front seems to be so messy and the back is not, but, as I said, a lot of that may be the result of my crappy web browser at work. I'm looking forward to seeing the card in person at Fort Washington.

Kevin

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Posted By: Rhys

Terry is a great guy. He let me see the card, and I asked him if I could see it out of the holder and he complied. I felt the card and in my opinion it is a foreign substance which appears like dirt to be attached to the front of the card. I mentioned this to Terry and told him that warm water and a q-tip would almost certainly clean the card to a much higher grade. He told me he did not want to do that, and I replied that the card is what it is and cleaning it probably would not increase the value substantially anyways because of the scarcity and it would probably go for the same amount regardless of grade and Terry agreed. I placed the card back in the holder and then handed it back to him and moved onto other conversation. Terry is the cream of the crop in the hobby and he is to be commended for not wanting to do anything to the card even though I would not have faulted him at all for using some warm water to remove this dirt. It is my opinion that this card could be cleaned with nothing more than warm water having held it out of the holder and examined it personally. Not having it cleaned was just a very honest and commendable decision by Terry.

Thanks again to Terry for letting me hold the card and for the great conversation at Chicago, he is always the highlight of my Fall Sun Times Trip!

Rhys