O/T Why doesn't MLB Celebrate Larry Doby more?

[rhettyeakley]

Originally Posted by packs

You brought everything up I commented on but you discounted what I said because it was me who said it. Only the best of the best play full seasons of major league baseball before 22. Even Gehrig didn't play a full season until he was 22.

So are we just going to pretend like Doby didn’t play those seasons? What exactly is your point?

He played more seasons in a high level league that we don’t have valid stats for that ARE included in his legacy but because of some asinine logic about how he was too young we should discount that as never having happened and compare him to a player that played an entire career and amassed the same WAR as a player that didn’t have those same possibilities?

Again, comparing a player that played 5 years in the Negro Leagues and then had a very good career in the Majors to a guy 35 years later with none of those factors is (and I will say this slowly) NOT A VALID COMPARISON!

Also, Larry Doby is only 4 years younger than Jackie. He turned 24 the year he began playing for the Indians.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Did the Negro Leagues have a minor league system?

[packs]

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

So are we just going to pretend like Doby didn’t play those seasons? What exactly is your point?

He played more seasons in a high level league that we don’t have valid stats for that ARE included in his legacy but because of some asinine logic about how he was too young we should discount that as never having happened and compare him to a player that played an entire career and amassed the same WAR as a player that didn’t have those same possibilities?

Again, comparing a player that played 5 years in the Negro Leagues and then had a very good career in the Majors to a guy 35 years later with none of those factors is (and I will say this slowly) NOT A VALID COMPARISON!

Also, Larry Doby is only 4 years younger than Jackie. He turned 24 the year he began playing for the Indians.

My point is pretty simple really. You keep asserting that Doby lost peak seasons of his career while he was 18 to 22. I don't think he did because that's not the case for the majority of major leaguers who tend to spend that time either playing college ball or minor league ball.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Even recognizing the limitations of the Negro League stats, it doesn't look like Larry was exactly a superstar at that early age, such that one needs to credit him with 5 extra outstanding seasons to make a fair assessment.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/r...d=doby--001law

[tedzan]

Very interesting thread........thought I'd give it a friendly bump by including some pictures.



1948 Cleveland Indians team photo pack (25 subjects).... Larry's 1st pix








1949 LEAF (issued in Summer of 1949) ...... 1949 BOWMAN (issued in the Fall of 1949)

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Very rare 1949 BOWMAN color printing errors (including Doby)





TED Z

T206 Reference
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[Peter_Spaeth]

Ted -- on the Campanella any idea why the gray ones only grade AUTHENTIC? Mine looks factory cut to me.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Ted -- on the Campanella any idea why the gray ones only grade AUTHENTIC? Mine looks factory cut to me.

Peter

Your Campy is most likely a legitimate factory issued card.

However, they are graded "A" because most of the TPG's are ignorant of of what's going on here.

When I collected these 1949 BOWMAN's in my youth, I clearly recall opening 1949 waxpacks with SLATE (or other color error) cards included in them with normal colored cards.


TED Z

T206 Reference
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[pclpads]

Ted - your remembrance that, "Larry was a really friendly guy to meet with and chat and get his autograph," reminded me that when I was on the Padres grounds crew at SD Stadium around '76, he was a coach for Montreal. I gave him his '52T and '57T cards to sign. Very warm memory. Very pleasant man.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Jackie not a HOF'er by the Numbers? by WAR he's 12th all-time at 2b, with the 6th best 7 year peak at the position. He has an MVP and finished top 10 3 other times and was viewed as one of the great defensive 2b of his era if not all time. ROY, 6x All-Star. He's 3rd All-time in 2b OPS, 8th in OPS+. He led the league in OBP once, Batting once (different years) and SB twice. His late start in the majors accounts for his lack of counting stats, but he's clearly one of the 10 best 2b ever and to me that's a HOF'er. Forget the color barrier for a minute his counting stats would've been negatively impacted by his service in WWII also, and that service was commonly accounted for by voters.

[Rookiemonster]

I agree that Larry Doby should have the same type of acknowledgments as Jamie Robinson. But Monte Irvin was supposed to be the first African American baseball player. The Newark Eagles would not allow him the star player to leave.
Willie Mays said that money Irvin was the best baseball player he had seen. And he help mentor Willie Mays when he came in to the league.

[Topnotchsy]

I think the simple answer is that as time goes on, we stop remembering the details, and we focus on the individual symbol. Jackie has become the symbol for the struggle of all those how have been forgotten. Definitely for people who are interested in the history, there are a ton of important names including Doby, Paige, Willard Brown, Campanella and others. I've long felt that Frank Robinson deserved more attention as well being the first black manager.

My collection focuses around Jackie and the integration and for me the story definitely extends to include those players including the '48 Indians team that was the first to feature black players and win the World Series.

Hope no one minds me adding some pics including a signature of the aforementioned Mack Robinson.