Joe DiMaggio Game Used Glove - Authenticated by Josh Evans of Lelands

[Archive]

Posted By: James Runyan

Here is a real interesting Joe DiMaggio Game Used Glove Authenticated by Josh Evans. Check out the description. Anyone want a softball glove from one of the DiMaggio brothers???

At least the high feedback seller fully discloses that the largest and most reputable auction house refuses to run the glove on the basis of authenticity.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=50117&item=5189007199&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

[Archive]

Posted By: Adam J. Moraine

Dear Forum members,

I think we should get the answer straight from the horses mouth. Whadaya say, Mr. Evans? Joe, Dominick, Vince or a total EBAY scam, as usual. These are reasons why I stay completely away from EBAY.

Best regards,

Adam J. Moraine

[Archive]

Posted By: scgaynor

I think that Josh already covered that piece in the Dave Bushing thread. He said that it was no good, and used it as an example of how Lelands owns up to thier mistakes.

Scott

[Archive]

Posted By: leon

This is not a memorabilia board. This one stays but please.......not too many more....especially from folks that don't participate in other card threads. It's partially my fault I haven't updated the forum faq's....regards all

[Archive]

Posted By: James Runyan

I am confused on this one. If he owned up to a mistake how is the glove and his original letter still floating around? Owning up to a mistake is buying it back so the mistake can be destroyed. I agree we should let Josh explain.

[Archive]

Posted By: Judge Dred

The truly sad part about this is that Josh Evans took the high road and owned up for the mistake. Now Bushing wants to list this on ebay. What's the motivation? I just don't get it.

[Archive]

Posted By: catchersmitt

The consignor of the glove indicated to me attempts were made to get Lelands to do the right thing and buy back the glove at a very reasonable price, as a matter of fact a fraction of what it originally sold for but these requests were refused. He wanted full disclosure of what he has found out on the glove which is what I believe this listing does.

[Archive]

Posted By: catchersmitt

Scott, what is this thread? Dave Bushing has nothing to do with this glove. This glove was rejected by SCDA. Mr. Bushing has zip to do with the glove other than the fact that his company (SCDA) refused to do a letter on the glove. I'm curious as to why he is referenced.

[Archive]

Posted By: Dave

I agree it is not enough to simply own up to a mistake. There needs to be accountability. There are consequences that need to be faced when a mistake is made in this case those are that Josh should explain what happened, take it back, refund the money, and write it off his taxes as a loss.. I am waiting to hear from him on this

[Archive]

Posted By: catchersmitt

Here again, why is Mr. Bushing referenced. He has nothing, I repeat nothing, to do with this glove. Mr. Bushing did not list this glove on eBay, I did. As to Mr. Evans "owning up" and "taking the high road", why is this glove now listed?
Likewise, why would you suggest that Mr. Bushing has motivation when, once again, he has absolutely nothing to do with the glove? Can you explain?

[Archive]

Posted By: Jay Miller

Leon--Now I see why you don't want memeorabilia threads

[Archive]

Posted By: Judge Dred

I brought Dave Bushings name into this because I thought he sold under the ebay name of Catchersmitt. If I'm in error I apologize. In any case, why would someone attempt to sell a piece of memorabilia that has already been scrutinized and that is not what the LOA states? Who benefits from this?

[Archive]

Posted By: scgaynor

It was in the "Evans Responds to Bushing" thread. I don't know how to post links, but it was originally posted on March 16, 2005. Do a search for "Jaffe" and it will pop right up.

Scott


edited by leon....a little help for my friend Scott

http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=153652&messageid=1111006668

[Archive]

Posted By: Dave

then why is he:

1. Allowing the glove to continue circulating theough the hobby
2. Refusing to buy it back and just simply right it off as a loss on hid taxes...

I'd like to hear the answers

[Archive]

Posted By: Eric

Hello everyone-
Traded emails with Leon. After our conversation about this thread, I respectfully invite everyone who wants to talk about this topic to continue the discussion over at the game used board.
People have been throwing in their 2 cents over there as well.
We can be found at http://www.gameusedforum.com
Hope to see you there
Eric
moderator gameusedforum.com

[Archive]

Posted By: Josh Evans

I would like to avoid getting down in the gutter with this one but I guess I need to set the record straight although I thought I had already done so with earlier posting regarding this issue

First of all I never sold this guy (James Runyan) this glove so to pay him a refund for something I sold over 10 years ago to someone else seems ludicrous

Dan Knoll and I (ironically Dave Bushing’s partner) sold this glove to Duane Garrett of Wolffer's (since decreased)

I bought a fresh Joe DiMaggio jersey (real) and sold it to Dan Knoll for somewhere in the $130,000 range

Dan Knoll then grouped the same jersey with a Joe DiMaggio bat (real but with light if any use), along with the glove in question and asked me to offer it to Duane Garrett with whom I did some business with and Dan did not

At the time I questioned Dan about the glove (it looked strange but I am not a glove expert) and he said it came from Tony Cocchi and had air tight provenance
However, in retrospective we now know that Cocchi is not a good guy and has been involved with some very shady stuff that I am personally aware of
But at the time both Dan and I trusted him

We sold the group of three DiMaggio pieces to Duane Garrett for $175,000 (I believe) and Dan and I split the profit
As best I can remember Dan put his cost on the bat at $15,000 and his cost on the glove at $10,000
I only put in these numbers to show how well I remember the situation
In those days pieces of this value and weight were not sold every day

Years later I was approached by a noted DiMaggio collector (who has since sold his collection and is now out of the hobby as far as I know) who told me he bought the DiMaggio glove from Duane Garrett and it was fake
He wanted a refund from me
I told him that was fine but he could not get the refund from me
He had to get the refund from Duane Garrett and Wolffer’s and I would refund Garrett
This is my policy on two levels
First, I would only be responsible for what I sold it to Garrett for, and second I never sold him anything
Paul did get his refund from Wolffer’s and I waited but Garrett never approached me
That shocked me a bit but what happened to the glove from there I did not know

Many years later (and some months ago) we were contacted by James Runyan (and later by Doug Allen of Mastronet acting in his steed) who told us he wanted his money back for this fake glove
Again, how do you refund someone for something you never sold them?
Should people go out there and try to find fake pieces I have made mistakes on to get third (or four or fifth or infinity) party refunds
Yes out of $100 million worth of stuff in my career that I have sold they are out there

And from 13 years ago?!?!
Time is merely a side issue but still a factor

I was then told by Doug Allen that this guy Runyan was going to list the piece on eBay or in a full page in SCD (did Krause see through this?) as being fake and coming from me
Please
First, I feel little threatened by having to stand up and be counted for selling something fake 13 years ago
We should all own up to our mistakes from time to time to keep us on the right track
Second, and more importantly I felt this was extortion

Interestingly, according to Dan Knoll he advised Doug Allen to pay James Runyan out of his Mastronet account (how much I do not know) to make this all go away
I advised Dan not to on my account (blood money)
According to Doug Allen (through Dan) James Runyan refused, saying it had to come from me not Dan

Hmmmm

Dan Knoll has also made efforts to get this pure smear removed from eBay
I told Dan not to on my account
I think it’s an apt symbol about what is wrong with our hobby
And what is right

Joshua Leland Evans
Chairman
Lelands.com

[Archive]

Posted By: davidcycleback

I am not getting involved in this debate, other than saying that it is a standard for a seller to give the refund to the purchaser only. In the fine art world in particular this is the legal standard and procedure.

There are a variety of reasons for this. One is that if a stranger comes off the street asking for a refund, the seller has no idea even if the stranger is the rightful owner of the item. As people on this board can testify, items are stolen (not insinuating or suggesting in any way shape or form that that is the case here). If the original seller was required to give a refund to anyone who came of the street, he theoretically could be required to pay multiple refunds for an item and still not have paid the purchaser.

It's akin to if you sold for $15,000 a used car to a 60 year old woman. If three days later some 20 year old guy who you have never seen before in your life drives the car into your driveway, gets out and says, "I'm returning the car for my full refund." It's safe to say your first words will be, "Who are you?" and not "Just a second, let me get my checkbook."

This should help explain why it is a legal standard for the seller to pay the purchaser, and for the purchaser to get the refund from the person he purchased it from.

Judges regularly say to the plaintiff, "You have a good case, but you're suing the wrong person."

[Archive]

Posted By: James Runyan

Josh,

Hate to correct you but what are you talking about? I never contacted you about this glove as I never owned it. I have never even met you. I think you have your facts confused. I saw the sale on eBay and found it interesting. You have me mixed up with someone else.

Now that you brought me into I did read your response and had a question. My understanding is Duane Garret is dead and Wolfer's no longer exists. How do you propose this guy get his money back for his fake glove that you guaranteed? From what I read you admit you profited from the glove, you admit you were prepared to refund the money but you will only do so if the guy who has it (not me!) goes back to a person who is no longer alive to get the refund from you. 13 years ago or 20 years ago you sold a bad glove and since the guy you sold it to is no longer of this earth I would think this guy needs to have some sort of recourse. I just have one question. What do you propose this guy do?

Jim

[Archive]

Posted By: Josh Evans

Mr. Runyan
Should I apologize?
I never personally spoke to the person who contacted us for the refund; I only spoke to Doug Allen
But due to your unnaturally keen involvement in all this including your multiple posts and demeanor which reeks of some agenda beyond righting a hobby wrong I merely assumed you were the person

As for your other question I already have pretty well covered that
Josh

[Archive]

Posted By: Dan Bretta

James, why don't you tell us why you chose this subject as your first ever post to a vintage baseball card site?

[Archive]

Posted By: Wesley

Is this Vida Blue who used to pitch for the Oakland A's and SF Giants?

This forum is awesome. Not only do we have some of the hobby's most knowledgeable collectors and dealers, in one week we have baseball great Vida Blue and HOF running back John Riggins posting here!

[Archive]

Posted By: Dan Bretta

I suspect this Vida Blue is someone with an agenda....much like most of the anonymous posters here. They can bash all they want, but if they can't put their name behind what they say then their word isn't worth much.

[Archive]

Posted By: leon

Please let there be no more anonymous posting in this particular thread. Whomever posts anymore in this thread will need to put their name on it or be deleted and possibly banned. Thanks a lot.....moderator dude

Vida Blue- that means you too..

[Archive]

Posted By: Dan Bretta

I think everyone would like to see it taken out of circulation, but if you can't put your name on your postings then I'll assume you have an agenda beyond that. Why are you afraid to stand behind your name?

[Archive]

Posted By: Dan Bretta

So far in this thread there have been three posters who have made their first ever posts to this board. If that doesn't smack of agenda I don't know what does.

[Archive]

Posted By: Judge Dred

CATCHERSMITT still hasn't identified themself. Forgive me if I'm a little bit ignorant here but I just would like to know who is trying to sell something they know isn't what it was claimed to be in the past.

[Archive]

Posted By: Dan Bretta

I don't believe they are trying to sell this glove. Rather they are trying to give Lelands and Josh Evans a bad name. I don't believe I've ever purchased anything from Catchersmitt in the past, but I'll be sure to avoid buying anything from him in the future.

[Archive]

Posted By: DJ

I'm pretty sure you can find out the info from another eBay member through eBay. Information will be traded but you will at least know who the seller is.

DJ
Frequent contributor, not a 'one-timer'

[Archive]

Posted By: Bruce A. Weaver

Please view my posting on http://www.gameusedforum.com/ regarding who I am and the listing of this item.
Thanks,
Bruce

[Archive]

Posted By: Dan Bretta

Bruce, thank you for identifying yourself. Now who is James Runyan and why did he pick this subject for his first ever post to a vintage baseball card site?

[Archive]

Posted By: Dave

What don't you follow the link over to the game used forum and read the threads there. The important question is not who brought this up and why...who cares the fact is Josh Evans will not help to get something out of circulation that he helped put there...And no I have no agenda. I am just a relatively new collector to game used items (last 2 years) that can't stand repeatedlly watching all these supposed "good guys" of the hobby continually sell out to the mighty $$. And each time they do it they destroy the credibility of the hobby a little more. It's disgusting... It's got his LOA with his name on it, step up, win the auction and get this thing out of circulation, and just write it off your taxes....I'm new to this hobby and justmy "gut" instinct (maybe you can call it a conscience) tells me the right thing to do is get it out of circulation if I put it there. Now you can hide behind all kinds of bullsh8t about who sold it to who and who gets the refund and who died and blah, blah, blah, blah. or you can suck it up and buy it back for the integrity hobby that made you rich...Is that so hard?

[Archive]

Posted By: Judge Dred

Now that there's an established time line it would be interesting to find out the following facts:

1) When was the glove revealed as not being what the LOA stated?

2) What is the sales history of the glove? How many times has it been bought and sold since leaving Leland's?

How much was paid for the glove is immaterial but it would be interesting to find this out.

By the way, does anyone know the reserve on the glove?

[Archive]

Posted By: Dan Bretta

I personally do think that this glove should be removed from the hobby and that Josh is responsible for it. I think that he should refund the owner of the glove the price that he sold it to Duane Garrett for. I think what the owner of the glove is doing though is rather childish, but I am not fully aware of what has happened behind the scenes. I just don't like it that people continue to come here and hide behind anonymity when I know for a fact that there is animosity between the auction houses.

[Archive]

Posted By: leon

There are no more anonymous posts in this thread. I shouldn't have let there be any to start with. Whomever Vida Blue was retracted their remarks and I went ahead and deleted the posts. take care

[Archive]

Posted By: craig

All you have to do to know if that glove was really Joe's is to contact Denny Esken. He can tell you for sure. When Bushing really wants to know if a glove is what someone says it is, he goes to Denny. There is no one who knows more about gloves in this country.

[Archive]

Posted By: Bruce A. Weaver

Please view details: http://www.gameusedforum.com/