National prices?

[buymycards]

Hi Ben,
Make sure you get there early on Sunday. By noon many of the dealers will be cleared out and by 2:00 most will be gone.

Rick

[Big Ben]

Originally Posted by buymycards

Hi Ben,
Make sure you get there early on Sunday. By noon many of the dealers will be cleared out and by 2:00 most will be gone.

Rick

Thanks for the tip. We have planned to get there around 10am when the doors open. Sunday is the only time we can make it this time around. --just going to have fun and hopefully run into a good deal--

[alanu]

I wonder if the stock market dump of the last few days will affect national sales.

[Big Ben]

Originally Posted by alanu

I wonder if the stock market dump of the last few days will affect national sales.

I was wondering the same thing. At least it is worth a try from a negotiation standpoint.

[campyfan39]

Just for reference, a friend of mine is there with 3 booths. His total expenses for hotel etc is about 6k. He usually clears about 15-20k for the show but has turned 6 figures twice.
He has told me the National is not a great place for buyers. Example. He was at a show last weekend and off to the side has some $3 boxes with off grade stars and oddballs. He says at the national he makes it a $5 box and sells it all every year....been there more than 20 times.

[milkit1]

prices sucked and at least half the tabless hid their prices making me work harder to find out they were overpriced. recession my butt!!

[rainier2004]

The prices were high, but I thought there were some bargains out there. I got a 34goudey sgc 2 for $140, and its centered, good color/surface, sofy corners and a back wrinkle. I got a 15 cj moriarty sgc 3 for $75 w/ a great front and back staining and he threw in another $5 card. Got a beautiful rizzuto rookie for $100 graded psa 3 but better thans tons of 4's Ive seen. But I also saw a 15 cj wagner, sgc 1.5 for $3500??? Some other stuff that was sooooo high my comments were said aloud accidentally.

[calvindog]

Hilarious bit of economics by the dealer with the Centennial Cobb stamp in a 7 grade. It's in the dealer's online store for $475; on ebay same card has a BIN for $345. Was sitting at the National gathering dust for $300. Sold in a 7 grade for $95 last December; I offered $150. Was countered with $200 and I walked. Of course, this dealer has on his online store a Dietsche Cobb (batting) in PSA 6 which allegedly sold on ebay for $4750. I have a superior PSA 6 (without a printing issue on the left border) which I purchased for $1111. I'd love to meet the 'buyer' who snagged the $4750 PSA 6 -- in a market which has come down in prices since I bought mine.

[36GoudeyMan]

if "dealer" really means "seller" or merely "displayer."

[bobbyw8469]

No offense, but $140 for a 1934 Goudey SGC 2 sounds VERY high to me!! Care to share who the card is?

[rainier2004]

The 34 goudey sgc was the greenberg. The most recent comparison was a psa 2.5 about 8 weeks ago that sold for $223. I think mine has better eye appeal as that one was o/c. NIce to include all the info.

[bobbyw8469]

Oh OK.....no, that doesn't sound bad at all then. Would love to see a scan when you return....

[brob28]

Just wondering if anyone has thoughts on whether its a good or bad time to list cards on ebay right after the National? My gut tells me it would be better to wait a few weeks as many potential buyers will have purchased what they need at the show. However after reading the posts about the high prices, I'm starting to think "normal" or auction prices will look pretty attractive after the prices. Any thoughts?

[GoldenAge50s]

"Normal" or fair/honest auctions will ALWAYS sell, National or no National!

[Matthew H]

Originally Posted by brob28

Just wondering if anyone has thoughts on whether its a good or bad time to list cards on ebay right after the National? My gut tells me it would be better to wait a few weeks as many potential buyers will have purchased what they need at the show. However after reading the posts about the high prices, I'm starting to think "normal" or auction prices will look pretty attractive after the prices. Any thoughts?

Not everyone went to the national...

[quinnsryche]

I spent all day there on Friday and thought it was awful. Alot of the cards I saw can be seen daily on ebay. Ridiculously overpriced cards in terrible condition. Never spent all day at a card show and saw nothing I even considered buying.
Ignorant dealers (sick of that!) and can't tell you how many don't even know their own inventory. Example: "Hi, do you have (fill in the blank)?" Dealer: "I don't know" or Hi, how much for (fill in the blank) Dealer: "this isn't my table, come back later." Ummm... NO. Where else in this country can you go to a business and they don't know what the price is or they can't tell you what they have in stock?
And then I hear, on more than 1 occasion, "oh, this is terrible, I'm not making any money" How about: 1. Customer Service, be friendly and know your product 2. charge a reasonable price (let's start by not charging 3-5X the market value) 3. Be at your table or at least train your employees.
I really would have to be desperate to attend another National.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by quinnsryche

I spent all day there on Friday and thought it was awful. Alot of the cards I saw can be seen daily on ebay. Ridiculously overpriced cards in terrible condition. Never spent all day at a card show and saw nothing I even considered buying.
Ignorant dealers (sick of that!) and can't tell you how many don't even know their own inventory. Example: "Hi, do you have (fill in the blank)?" Dealer: "I don't know" or Hi, how much for (fill in the blank) Dealer: "this isn't my table, come back later." Ummm... NO. Where else in this country can you go to a business and they don't know what the price is or they can't tell you what they have in stock?
And then I hear, on more than 1 occasion, "oh, this is terrible, I'm not making any money" How about: 1. Customer Service, be friendly and know your product 2. charge a reasonable price (let's start by not charging 3-5X the market value) 3. Be at your table or at least train your employees.
I really would have to be desperate to attend another National.

Yes but how was the food?

[Delray Vintage]

Tried the National last year, my reaction was it was a display show. I collect mostly pre 1900 so it was slim pickings. Mostly I enjoyed the displays of the t -206 wagners and the great collection of yum yum, kbats, etc.

I graded a few old csa holders into psa and sgc so at least I accomplished something. I find the auctions more pleasurable since at least it is a true market price. After the airfare and cab rides, Airport parking I felt the $600 invested was not worth it.

Give me a nice Rea catalog and I'll stay home.

[Bosox Blair]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Yes but how was the food?

Sitting right now at Gibson's steak house (directly across the street). Excellent food. Just had the filet sliders and fries - $12. Delicious! No brainer compared to a $5 hot dog inside the show...

Plus Gibson's has free wi-fi!!! (At the show you have to pay $10 a day to access the hotspot...no need thanks to Gibson's.

Met Tony yesterday and he kindly delivered a card to me. Tony, sorry to hear your experience at the show was bad. It was nice to meet you and chat a bit!

Cheers,
Blair

[quinnsryche]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Yes but how was the food?

$7 hot a hot dog and small pop. My son ate, I did not.
Blair, it was a pleasure meeting you. Other collectors are soooo much cordial than dealers.
Leon, stopped by your table a few times but didn't get to meet you.

[texigator]

Originally Posted by quinnsryche

$7 hot a hot dog and small pop. My son ate, I did not.
Blair, it was a pleasure meeting you. Other collectors are soooo much cordial than dealers.
Leon, stopped by your table a few times but didn't get to meet you.

Leon saw them take out the Vintage Authentics guy in handcuffs on Wednesday, so he was hiding under his table.

[4815162342]

I got a really good deal on a few t206s, and got a few post war cards, but besides that, yes a lot of tables had prices @ 1.5-2 times market value. I negotiated the best I could, and politely walked away if the price was unreasonable. That's all you can do. It was funny how many times I heard "come back Sunday and I'll sell it to you at that price!"

[Kzoo]

Like most have already noted, a lot of prices were laughable, but having some patience and searching yielded a few good deals on e95's for me. eBay definitely has better deals, but walking the floor for two days was a blast!

Matt

[Big Ben]

Just got back from my first National. I want to thank people here for their tips about the show etc. I definitely used a lot of the tips which helped make my experience a very enjoyable one. I agree with a lot of comments on here about pricing. If the prices were not shown, I would ask the dealer about the price and if the price was the usual 1.5 to 2 times the ebay price I politely thanked the dealer and walked away. I tried to negotiate on a couple of those type of deals (priced 2 times greater than ebay) and got nowhere. That being said, after considerable walking around, I found and negotiated a nice T206 PSA 3 Cobb and ended up buying that card. Overall a very enjoyable experience. Would I go to another National. YES.. That being said, it would take a lot of convincing for me to attend more than one day.

[HRBAKER]

I just rolled in from my tenth National this afternoon. Had a great time, picked up a few things and probably overpaid for some of them. My choice.

I don't think that the National is, was or will be the place for bargain hunting or even market-reflective pricing. The prices are high generally and to me it functions more as a seller's marketplace rather than a buyers. By and large most people who aren't selling junk know that most of us don't want to go home empty handed.

To me the National has become more of a planned vacation where I pick up a few things, meet up with the crew I have attended all ten with and also renew hobby acquaintances on an annual basis.

[tbob]

As usual prices were high but any buyer who pays the listed price just doesn't get it. Dealers mark up their cards because they can then come down some and sell the cards for prices they actually want.
As predicted, you could hear crickets at the 707 tables. Ebay too high prices, Convention too high prices. I looked at ebay a couple of times and the same guys with ridiculous BINs were at it again during the Show.
Now, that said, there were bargains. I managed to score a very nice E90-1 Cobb, a sharp E102 Matty and the best looking T207 Weaver PSA 2 in existence (formerly in a PSA 7 holder but that's a story for another day). Beckett bumped the Weaver to a 3 and it still looks undergraded but I understand the grade and it is a killer card. Thanks to Richard Masson for that one.
To me the key was to buy from 54ers you knew. They were reasonable and I bought a beautiful T213-3 PSA 7 Kelley from Ed Hans for a nice price.
I managed to find a PSA 6 "thin" Matty Domino Disc for $100 which is a real bargain. Pete Calderon sold me an E94 gold Cobb for my master set, thanks Pete! I understand he had a higher offer after he agreed by email to sell it to me. Pete is head of consignments for Heritage and I recommend people consider contacting him for future consignments as he is great to work with and a solid guy in the hobby.
On the other hand, some dealers refused to budge on their prices and I paid almost full sticker price for some Series 5 and 6 T210s. They just aren't out there anymore in nice shape, so you have to somtimes bite the bullet.
A mixed bag, but I had fun. I sold some duplicate M116s to 54ers and one made its way in to an 80 holder so I was happy about that. I sold some Home Run Kisses (non Portland guys) and helped pay for some cards.
Now back to the ebay wars

[Bosox Blair]

Originally Posted by tbob

To me the key was to buy from 54ers you knew. They were reasonable...

Hi Bob,

I agree with this...I'd guess that about 65% of my card budget was spent at the tables of active N54 participants.

I guess that begs the question whether we need to be going to the National? Not trying to cause trouble or anything, but just stating one angle. It was my first National and it was great to meet as many N54 people as I did. I admit that the time I spent talking to people was definitely more in depth than any e-mails or PMs I exchanged previously. I definitely value that.

But as much as you get bashed over the head by dealers complaining about their costs of the National...what about ours? I paid pretty close to $1500 to fly to Chicago return, rent a room for 6 nights and get a pass for all the show days. As a collector, I'm certainly not making that back on any great below-market buys at the show...

Cheers,
Blair

[tbob]

Hi Blair. Sorry I didn't get a chance to meet you at the National.
One of the things I really enjoy at the National and which I forgot to mention was going to a baseball game. I am stuck in the middle of no man's land as far as MLB teams go, the nearest place is the Rangers (7 hours) or the Royals or Cardinals (7 hours+). To be able to ride the train to Wrigley and see the Cubs was a great experience. I went with Tim, Mike, Jeremy and Mark and we had a great time and I really enjoyed grabbing a cold one at one of the many bars/restaurants right outside the stadium. There is so much to do at the National which doesn't involve cards although cards are always the main topic of conversation.
One odd note is that Todd S. went to the game Thursday night to see the White Sox on the south side of town (not really recommended) and no one saw him again! Hopefully he just had to leave Friday morning and is not MIA. Todd! If you are out there are you ok?

[quinnsryche]

Originally Posted by tbob

One odd note is that Todd S. went to the game Thursday night to see the White Sox on the south side of town (not really recommended) and no one saw him again! Hopefully he just had to leave Friday morning and is not MIA. Todd! If you are out there are you ok?

Good Lord, it's not that bad! I've been going there for 40 years and NOTHING has ever happened to me or my family (and I have 2 young children). For crying out loud, at least we've never had a fan beat to death outside the park (Dodgers/Giants ring a bell?). Wrigley is a MUCH more dangerous place considering the weirdos that hang out/live in the accompanying areas.

I named what I was willing to pay for cards and didn't budge. I walked away with 90% of the deals. But I did feel like it was a good comedy show with some of the prices being laughable. A SGC 4 Suggs for $350 LMFAO. I offered $185 which is $65 more than the last ebay card and he said the price was firm. See you in 5 yrs for a good deal There were a lot of good prices if you were straight with the dealers. I didn't give the excuses of "well this says this and that says that". I went in educated to my buys and bought based on knowledge and walked with a lot of good stuff. There were 3 cards I can't live without but will have to wait A BL, Hindu, and my SGC 7 Johnson

[ullmandds]

One of the only cards I was interested in was an e98 red background Jennings...ungraded...in g condition. The guy had a price of $2000 on it...but said he could give me 20% off!!!! How about more like 80%?!?!

[Jewish-collector]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

I just rolled in from my tenth National this afternoon. Had a great time, picked up a few things and probably overpaid for some of them. My choice.

I don't think that the National is, was or will be the place for bargain hunting or even market-reflective pricing. The prices are high generally and to me it functions more as a seller's marketplace rather than a buyers. By and large most people who aren't selling junk know that most of us don't want to go home empty handed.

To me the National has become more of a planned vacation where I pick up a few things, meet up with the crew I have attended all ten with and also renew hobby acquaintances on an annual basis.

I completely agree with Jeff's statements and could not have said it better myself. This was my 5th straight National and 7th overall. Had a fantastic time as usual. There was a memorabilia item that I didn't buy last year, but the dealer still had it, so I pulled the trigger and bought it this year. I actually saw 3 concerts on this planned vacation. It was a pleasure meeting some guys from Net54 (Hi Blair !!!!!, etc,...) that I haven't met before.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Jewish-collector

I actually saw 3 concerts on this planned vacation.

Just curious....were they all free w/free parking?

[Exhibitman]

I am always a bit surprised at how many people complain about the lack of decent items at good prices at the show, as my experience has always been that there is plenty of good stuff at good, even great, prices. However, to find the deals you have to actively work the show. I spend a full day, every day, on the convention floor to ferret out the underpriced cards and I tend to find a lot of stuff as a result. If I was to spend my convention time socializing, seeing sights, etc., I would likely also conclude that the show has little to offer. You have to be a "picker" to get the best deals at the show--you have to dig in the messy displays and dusty boxes of junk if you want to avoid paying top dollar. Case in point: I am working a postwar exhibit set and I needed the SP Yaz card. it is one of the most expensive SPs and the ones I saw on display were $200 or more [got at good laugh at the $350 one]. But by digging and scraping I eventually found a seller blowing out a whole album of exhibits, including the SPs, and got a nice Yaz for $3. Most deals weren't that extreme, of course [wish they were], but had I simply given up and gone swimming I'd never even have seen that album. I even went picking in the Olympics room and came away with a boxing-related ticket from the 1936 Olympic trials here in L.A. And timing can be everything at the show. Dealers buy stuff and put out new cards all during the show; if you aren't there you tend to miss new stuff as it comes out. I stumbled across some great cards that a dealer had just added to his table from an earlier purchase, and I got them only because I was there instead of at lunch, at Wrigley, at the museum, sleeping off a hangover, etc.