The Trader Speaks - 1st issue Nov 1968

[Leon]

Many of you have heard of The Trader Speaks. It was a hobby publication put out for approximately 15 yrs between 1968-1983/4. It was THE publication back in the day. I acquired a complete run, though a few are Xerox's, not too long ago. What most folks haven't seen is the introduction from the first issue. This board reminds me of somewhat of a virtual Trader Speaks....but with more bickering . Here are the first 3 pages of the first issue.....I figured some might like to see them....regards

[barrysloate]

Those advertising rates are brutal!

[toppcat]

Nice bit o'history there Leon.This reminds me I need to fill in the rest of my run. I'd be happy with Xeroxes myself from the first 3 years or so, I'm pretty close to the full run from about '71/72 forward.

[yazfan08]

I love old hobby pubs. Is this one of your reproductions or an original? How many #1 copies are known to exist? How about for SCD?

[Leon]

One other friend contacted me first about some issues I have as dupes. Email me and lets see if I can't help out a little..... "leonl at flash dot net" is a good email......

[Leon]

Originally Posted by yazfan08

I love old hobby pubs. Is this one of your reproductions or an original? How many #1 copies are known to exist? How about for SCD?

Unfortunately mine is a reproduction.....

and edited to say I have no idea of the # of #1's in circulation...

[E93]

I would love to see some ads for interesting cards from back in those days if you have time.
JimB

[bh3443]

Great to see the first issue of this! Dan Dishley founded the publication and in the later years I believe Sonny Jackson ran it until the end. Great guys that truly pioneered the hobby. While were at it Charlie Brooks' Sport Hobbyist was one other early paper. The Stommen's founded SCD. I met these fine people way back and they were all great. There were others, but these are the ones I used daily!
I remember bidding on a run of 52 Topps Hi's from Bob Thing of Maine around 1980. He broke up the run and we all paid record prices at the time! Mint commons ran around 30.00 and I paid 800.00 for a perfect Mantle.

[Leon]

Just for you my friend. If I am correct the "173's" mentioned are real and not only photo's of real ones. This is far and away the best page for pre-war related items. There are no other really significant pre-war cards for sale in the book, at a quick glance....regards

[ajg]

would love to buy any issues from 1968 and 1969. let me know if available and the price

[barrysloate]

A run of Beadle's Guides from the 1860's for $13.50 apiece? Incredible! Not to mention N173's at ten bucks a pop. Just noticed for an extra five dollars you can get Cap Anson, Harry Wright and Mike Kelly.

Wait, those guides are photocopies. Skip it. I'll take the N173's.

[Baseball Rarities]

Dan Dishley's personal copy - the first off the press.

[Rob D.]

Kevin, that is simply awesome.

[sando69]

very impressive!
is that yours?
if so, please share the story of how you acquired it.

[19cbb]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

A run of Beadle's Guides from the 1860's for $13.50 apiece? Incredible! Not to mention N173's at ten bucks a pop. Just noticed for an extra five dollars you can get Cap Anson, Harry Wright and Mike Kelly.

Wait, those guides are photocopies. Skip it. I'll take the N173's.

Barry, I'll pay the $13.50 for photocopies of TWO pages from the 1866 Beadle's guide.

I have a request for them on my signature since I need them for a research project and no one has responded!

[Baseball Rarities]

Mark,

Dan Dishley sold his personal run of The Trader Speaks 5 or 10 years ago. I have his complete collection.

I also have Buck Barker's 1960 and 1967 copies of the American Card Catalog along with some of his correspondence with other hobby pioneers such as Lionel Carter, Ed Broder, etc.

[Baseball Rarities]

Jimmy,

I am sure that I have Leland's Winter 2006 catalog somewhere in my library. I have tried to keep copies of all of the important catalogs. What is it that you needed?

[E93]

Leon,
Thanks for that post. Much appreciated. Those prices are amazing.

Kevin,
Thanks for that scan as well. That is very cool.
Jimb

[Jay Wolt]

Here's an August 1965 thirty page issue of "The Sports Trader" sent to hobby pioneer Buck Barker.
Picked this up on N54 B/S/T a year or so ago.

[Kalineman]

The James Elder ad brought back a lot of memories. As a teenager trying to add to my collection in the early 1970s, I purchased many items from Mr. Elder in Florida. Later, as a lifelong writer, I had the pleasure of writing in The Trader Speaks and working with Dan Dishley. What a gentleman! Same goes for my old friend John Stommen. They were part of our collecting world for all the right reasons. They loved the hobby as much as we did.

[Rob D.]

How appropriate (well, to me, at least) that Nick Edson makes a post in a thread about The Trader Speaks. Of the more than 150 issues of TTS that I own, more than half of them once belonged to Nick and have his mailing stamp on the back cover.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Rob D.

How appropriate (well, to me, at least) that Nick Edson makes a post in a thread about The Trader Speaks. Of the more than 150 issues of TTS that I own, more than half of them once belonged to Nick and have his mailing stamp on the back cover.

That's very cool....Glad to see some hobby veterans hanging around virtually....It's a different world today.

[Kalineman]

Thanks, Rob. Those were the days when we went to shows with want lists and did a huge amount of trading. Truth be told, that collecting world still exists today - we just don't hear as much about it. We didn't use the word 'networking' in the early days of shows, but at our tables we talked with the likes of John Stommen for hours on end, traded cards and ended up having dinner together. Thanks to Leon for having a regular hobby 'place' to go every day.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Kalineman

Thanks, Rob. Those were the days when we went to shows with want lists and did a huge amount of trading. Truth be told, that collecting world still exists today - we just don't hear as much about it. We didn't use the word 'networking' in the early days of shows, but at our tables we talked with the likes of John Stommen for hours on end, traded cards and ended up having dinner together. Thanks to Leon for having a regular hobby 'place' to go every day.

Nick, you are very welcome. It's always an honor and priviledge when I get to hang around with hobby veterans. I am a very lucky person in that I have only been collecting around 15 yrs (again since adulthood) and have been fortunate to meet and converse with some of the great collectors of yesteryear. I must have spent at least 2 hours speaking with John Rumeriez at the National as I hadn't seen him in a few years. And then a few steps over I saw my pal Kit Young whom I have a ton of respect for. We had a nice long chat. I consider him to be a wonderful person, not perfect as no one is, but a truly wonderful guy. It's a great hobby and one of the main reasons is the people in it. Heck, setting up with Richard Masson and my partner, Scott...with ole Jay Miller hanging around, isn't all bad either. The "people" in the hobby are one of my great enjoyments. take care now (sorry to ramble a little)

[E93]

Jay,
Thanks for posting that.

Nick,
Thank you for sharing some of your experience here. I hope you do more so.
JimB

[tbob]

If these guys were alive today (I know Lionel still is) and posted on this board, they would be probably be slammed by a few for "swimming in the sea of mediocrity" in their collections.
Thanks so much for posting TTS and other items which show what the hobby was, and to an extent, is still all about.
I've wondered before if the hobby was going to die out when the pre-war collectors got old and died off or lost interest, but then I found this and the predecessor Full Count board and was encouraged to see so many young collectors who love the history and tradition of baseball and the cards.
Nice thread Leon

[Leon]

Originally Posted by tbob

If these guys were alive today (I know Lionel still is) and posted on this board, they would be probably be slammed by a few for "swimming in the sea of mediocrity" in their collections.
Thanks so much for posting TTS and other items which show what the hobby was, and to an extent, is still all about.
I've wondered before if the hobby was going to die out when the pre-war collectors got old and died off or lost interest, but then I found this and the predecessor Full Count board and was encouraged to see so many young collectors who love the history and tradition of baseball and the cards.
Nice thread Leon

Hey Bob
We have the same sentiments. One small unfortunate clarification is that Lionel passed away about a year or so ago....regards

[Tim Zwick]

This thread sure stirs up a lot of old memories for me also. Like Nick, I was a teenager in the early 70's growing up in Michigan and buying cards from Jim Elder, Gar Miller, Bruce Yeko, Woody Gelman, Merv Williams, etc. through the mail. I was also lucky enough to attend and set up at Detroit area shows starting in 1972/73. Meeting Ernie Harwell at my table during one of the old Troy Hilton shows and talking with him for quite some time about his collection and baseball was priceless (he even bought a couple of old scorecards.) It just couldn't get any better than that for a young country hick teenager. John Stommen was a great guy, friend and mentor of mine who along with Dan Dischley, Bob Jasperson, Irv Lerner & Charlie Brooks helped pave the way for the acceptance of collecting junkies like us and our addiction to these little pieces of cardboard with their various publications.

Leon brings up John Rumeriez. He always had tons of cards, knowledge and seemed to be set up at every show. He was a member of the legendary group (at least to me) of Detroit area hobby pioneers that included Frank Nagy, Dick Reuss, Ed Lotz, Ed Budnick, Jay Barry, Charlie Conlon, Lloyd Toerpe, The Dehem Bros. and many more. I know they all had an influence on my love of collecting and appreciate the fact that I was able to make their acquaintance and do some deals with most along the way.

Thanks Leon & crew for providing a landing pad for some of the hobby dinosaurs to frequent.

[tbob]

Originally Posted by Leon

Hey Bob
We have the same sentiments. One small unfortunate clarification is that Lionel passed away about a year or so ago....regards

Hi leon
Lord, I didn't know about his passing. What a shame, I guess it occurred not too long after he sold off the last of his collection?

[chris6net]

How is Dan Dischley doing these days. I also rememember in the mid to late 70,s anticipating the next issue. I believe Dan worked in law enforcement for the same department that I currently work in. He was also a big part of our departments quarterly newsletter and Dan has an impeccable reputation within our department (Suffolk County Police) which is one of the top 15 largest departments in the U.S. I hope Dan is doing well. CN

[toppcat]

Originally Posted by Rob D.

How appropriate (well, to me, at least) that Nick Edson makes a post in a thread about The Trader Speaks. Of the more than 150 issues of TTS that I own, more than half of them once belonged to Nick and have his mailing stamp on the back cover.

I have some of Nick's too and a whole lot of Dan McKee's old TTS. It would be great if we could get a hobby archive of old zines scanned up and hosted somewhere. Sports Scoop, Card Collectors Bulletin, TTS etc.Also, if you go to www.oldbaseball.com and click on the LIBRARY link, George Vrechek (and some others) have a number of articles about the old pubs and collectors on there. It's well worth a look.

I have always wished for a hobby version of SABR as concerns the history of the cards and pubs and collectors themselves. Not sure enough people are interested in that aspect of it but I know there are a dozen or two hardcore hobby history guys that would probably be intrigued.

[Oldtix]

Very interesting stuff! Dave, I followed the link over to OLDBASEBALLCARDS and greatly enjoyed the article on Hobby Publication History. The article ran back in 2004 and 2005.

The author George Vrechek cites a December 1935 Jefferson Burdick article in Hobbies Magazine as earliest mention of baseball card collecting.

Is this still believed to be accurate? If so, I have some news that may be our hobby's "Da Vinci Code"...

[Rich Klein]

*IS to become a SABR sub-committee of our own; of course; that means joining SABR, but if we can convince them that this is a worthy subject, I can find out, or have Tom Holford (who is one of the 16 founding members of SABR and has been active on this board) find out how we can do this. Great idea; and I think instead of being a hobby version of SABR; we can become a part of and adjunct to SABR.

Rich

I have always wished for a hobby version of SABR as concerns the history of the cards and pubs and collectors themselves. Not sure enough people are interested in that aspect of it but I know there are a dozen or two hardcore hobby history guys that would probably be intrigued.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Leon]

I was speaking with my good friend Lyman Hardeman of Oldcardboard Magazine yesterday, concerning some things in this thread. We were talking about archives etc...and he reminded me that there are over 800 articles posted on their website right now....Before we get going too hard on archiving we should probably see what has been done so far and then maybe just add to it? I know Lyman is a great sport about this stuff so thought I would mention it..(this is under "articles" on their homepage)..regards

http://www.oldcardboard.com/ref/BBC-...earchIndex.asp

[Oldtix]

I've been a SABR member since 1987; we just had an inaugural Columbus chapter meeting last Saturday and are just now defining our objectives. At the initial meeting, about 35 people showed up and I got the impression that most are collectors of artifacts and memorabilia, not just stats. I'll see if there's interest at our next meeting.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Leon

he reminded me that there are over 800 articles posted on their website right now....

From my experience what he has up are the bibliographies of the articles, not the actual articles themselves.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Matt

From my experience what he has up are the bibliographies of the articles, not the actual articles themselves.

I had only clicked on the OldCardboard articles that are indexed and they DO have the articles HOWEVER you are absolutely correct otherwise. So, we still have some work to do there/here..Thanks for the clarification Matt...

[toppcat]

Originally Posted by Leon

I had only clicked on the OldCardboard articles that are indexed and they DO have the articles HOWEVER you are absolutely correct otherwise. So, we still have some work to do there/here..Thanks for the clarification Matt...

I am actually talking about full scans of each pub. In my three decades of doing hobby research, I find the ads have just as much information as do the articles. If you took all the issues of the major pubs, which are all B&W low-res, I'll bet the amount of data would be fairly minimal. I'm not counting pubs that are still active of course.

The SABR subcommittee idea is interesting-I proposed it years ago when I was a member and believe they had such a committee at one time but could be mistaken in that regard. If I was retired I'd seriously consider getting one going but that's a few years, off, depending upon the 200.5K plan.....

[E93]

Originally Posted by toppcat

I am actually talking about full scans of each pub. In my three decades of doing hobby research, I find the ads have just as much information as do the articles. .

I agree, they can be incredibly informative about a different historical time in the hobby. It would a huge project for somebody to scan all of these out of print publications and make them available in some way, but what an incredible resource it could be.

Do any of the lawyers here know what the copyright laws are with regard to out of print publications?
JimB

[Rickyy]

Thanks for posting the original issue Leon. I think I still have a few of mine from the mid to late 70's that I ordered as a teen. It's fun to go back and look at the prices and articles and recall the names of people from those ads. I think I found Dick Reuss and Jim Elder from those publications.

Ricky Y

[ChrisStufflestreet]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

I have always wished for a hobby version of SABR as concerns the history of the cards and pubs and collectors themselves. Not sure enough people are interested in that aspect of it but I know there are a dozen or two hardcore hobby history guys that would probably be intrigued.

And you can add my name to that list, Rich.

My mid 80s issues of Baseball Hobby News (almost all of which have Nick Edson articles in them) sit right next to my computer desk. They're great resources and I'm always thirsty for more...

[Rich Klein]

We might be seeing a lot more of this stuff through the miracle of scanning in the near future.


Rich

[Rich Klein]

But there is a BB Card group on SABR now BTW

Rich

[steve B]

Originally Posted by E93

I agree, they can be incredibly informative about a different historical time in the hobby. It would a huge project for somebody to scan all of these out of print publications and make them available in some way, but what an incredible resource it could be.

Do any of the lawyers here know what the copyright laws are with regard to out of print publications?
JimB

Sadly it doesn't require a lawyer. Out of print, in print it's mostly still under copyright. Of course, for some of those publications getting permission would be pretty easy. SCD is pretty much the only one that would really cost, and stuff like - I think Ive got it right- "current card prices" which was put out by legal action by Beckett. That one might be problematic.

I have a bunch of old stuff, not as impressive a collection, but I could do some scanning.

I also have a bit of a collection of hobby supplies. Various pages etc going back to 1974.

Steve B

[Rich Klein]

It was Card Prcies Update (CPU) which went out of business due to Beckett/Eckes winning the law suit. Noted hobbyist Herman Kaufmann was the attorney for the Jim Beckett and the late Dennis Eckes.

Since this board has so many lawyers, here is a link to that decision

http://openjurist.org/736/f2d/859/ec...-prices-update

CCP continued on into the early 1990's and the final "issue" of CCP was not an issue but a one-page letter in which the editor/Publihsher said amongst other things that one of his kids was a "government pet". After that, there was no more CCP.

Regards
Rich

[steve B]

CPU that's the one. I actually liked it, but they did infringe pretty seriously.

I wonder if their magazine was what prompted Beckett to come out with their own later that year?

Seems like many of the early price guides came to a poor end. There are others from that time, and I have at least one copy of most of them somewhere. I almost wrote a couple things for one of them, but I was too disorganised and by the time I'd halfway gotten my self together they were done.

Steve B

[Jaybird]

Originally Posted by ChrisStufflestreet

And you can add my name to that list, Rich.

+1

[joeadcock]

Interesting James T. Elder who was selling much of the prewar stuff back in 1968, adress listed is right down the road from me, maybe 30 minutes. Seeing the area now, in 1968, must have been a desolate area to live. Curious how he would have come across his cards.

Anyone know?

[scmavl]

This thread was a very interesting and enlightening read. I sure hope something comes of getting these old publications scanned and available online.

Unfortunately, the only one I remember (and may have some idssues of) is CCP from the late 80's. I had to buy them constantly to see if my '87 Topps Will Clark was worth $1.00 or $1.25...

[Leon]

I am sure there will be some more old hobby pubs being posted in the not too distant future. Just like in the most recent 1947 Card Collectors Bulletin that was posted, RE: the scam about not sending cards after changing addresses, it seems like some things never change.