I Think I've been scammed (Update to prior post)

[Seven]

Many of you commented on my previous post concerning a lost card by USPS. However I think something more sinister is afoot. Here was the previous thread I made the other day

https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=285301

I purchased this card from this listing. Now USPS incompetence aside I want you to take a look at the card, specifically the serial number that identifies the card in the PSA registry.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1953-Bowman...72.m2749.l2649

Low and behold I'm randomly searching for 1953 Mantles on ebay and this new auction pops up AND IT'S THE SAME CARD.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1953-Bowman...UAAOSwClhe96pv

I'm going to see if the packag arrived, but now I'm worried about something else entirely. What are everyones thoughts on this?

[toledo_mudhen]

Seriously? - Yes is always better to sell the same card more than once

I would definitely contact the seller (and ebay) asking "What up dog?"

As for USPS - just anecdotal but-

I have been on eBay as both buyer and seller since 96 (yea old - right?) and have NEVER had an item actually get lost in the mail. Have had several that got "stuck" at some point in the tracking but eventually everything has always arrived at where it should.

[buymycards]

It is the same card, and it is being sold by the same seller that you originally bought the card from.

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by buymycards

It is the same card, and it is being sold by the same seller that you originally bought the card from.

Why do you think that?
The first one was: viapdx12 (1365 ) from West Linn, Oregon
Recent one: zyx1808 (186 ) from Flemington, New Jersey

Different picture, since the second one is blurrier and has a team bag over the case.

Similar to this Michael Jordan issue found on Blowout/PSA message boards:
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1385762

[x2drich2000]

Interesting, definitely the same card, however, I'm a bit confused. In the original posting you indicated the card was $734. In the link you provided for the card you purchased it shows $895. Which was it?

Lonnie/RIck - Maybe I'm missing something, but how did you determine they were the same seller? The original was sold by viapdx12 who became a member on 12/1/12 and is from OR. The new listing is sold by zyx1808 who became a member on 3/1/04 and is from NJ.

[111gecko]

The new listing has the card scanned in the shipping mylar sleeve. $1,000 card and you don't bother taking it out for a scan??. weird.

Looks like card was sold in Oregon and new listing is in NJ? Where is the OP from?

Curious what new seller will say when he finds out it was sold...

[swarmee]

I tried reporting the new one to eBay as an illegal item, but it's saying that I can't submit it because the Ebay Item number is not accurate/active. However, I can add the card to my cart.
Maybe they've already received a few notifications through their Report Item link.

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by x2drich2000

Interesting, definitely the same card, however, I'm a bit confused. In the original posting you indicated the card was $734. In the link you provided for the card you purchased it shows $895. Which was it?

If you make an offer through the messages, and the seller responds with a direct offer, the listing price does not get updated. Another reason not to trust previous sale values on sold listing sites.

[toledo_mudhen]

OOPS - Yes - Wrong assumptions on my part - -

I take it then that :

1) You purchased the card BUT have not received it.
2.) You received tracking info from your seller - What does it show?
3.) There is now some other seller that is offering the same card for Sale.

Is all of that correct?

If so then maybe new seller has simply copied out an image of the card and posted a listing for one that he may or may not have in hand?

[x2drich2000]

Originally Posted by 111gecko

The new listing has the card scanned in the shipping mylar sleeve. $1,000 card and you don't bother taking it out for a scan??. weird.

Looks like card was sold in Oregon and new listing is in NJ? Where is the OP from?

Curious what new seller will say when he finds out it was sold...

From the original thread, poster is in NY.

[x2drich2000]

Originally Posted by swarmee

If you make an offer through the messages, and the seller responds with a direct offer, the listing price does not get updated. Another reason not to trust previous sale values on sold listing sites.

Thanks John, I assumed it slashed through the price like a normal best offer.

[savedfrommyspokes]

Have you contacted the second seller of this card?

Not sure how close you live to NJ, but my guess is whoever received your package by mistake from the USPS realized that the card inside had some value (but was not knowledgeable enough to understand the serial number) and sold it to someone somewhere (LCS, craigs list, etc) who then sold it to the seller who is currently offering it. Otherwise, it would be quite ironic that the mistaken recipient would also be a seller of vintage cards on ebay.

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by toledo_mudhen

If so then maybe new seller has simply copied out an image of the card and posted a listing for one that he may or may not have in hand?

Unlikely since the first listing shows the card not in a team bag, and the second one does. Most likely is that the card was delivered to this second seller by mistake (or he bought it from someone that stole it, as he does deal in PSA graded cards).

Card looks the exact same in both images (minor corner wear, print dot on right border near middle), so it's not a case of PSA accidentally duplicating Cert numbers (which has happened occasionally).

James, do you live in NJ?

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by x2drich2000

Thanks John, I assumed it slashed through the price like a normal best offer.

Looks like 130point.com has the correct sale information:
Item Title: 1953 Bowman Color Mickey Mantle PSA 2.5 New York Yankees Sharp Bright Photo
Sale Price: 895.00 USD
Best Offer Accepted Price: 675.00 USD

Sale Date: Sat 20 Jun 2020 07:35 PM

[swarmee]

Here's an earlier image from Probstein when it was sold for $645 at the end of March. Still no team bag/blurry picture.

So it's pretty much a lock the current seller bought it from the person who stole it/received it.

[Bigdaddy]

And here is the new listing of the same card:

Obviously the person that 'received/took delivery' of the card then moved it to a person (zyx1808) who buys/sells cards on Ebay. The only question in my mind (besides the identity of the receiver) is: was the card delivered to the wrong house by mistake or intentionally diverted? I think only the USPS could answer that one. I would start squeezing the zit from both sides - the USPS and zyx1808. Save all evidence you can (receipts, screen captures, emails, correspondences, etc.) and apply pressure.

Sorry that you are in this situation.

[Fred]

As a seller, all my packages have made it to the buyers (probably less than 50). As a buyer, I've had a few packages not make it (out of hundreds). I've also had the postal service lose 2 auctions payments in the past couple decades.

Is the postal service reliable? For the most part - yes, but those "misses" really stick out in my mind.

[swarmee]

Or you could file a police report in the city the seller lives in.

[Rhotchkiss]

Or the OP is really in on it and posts these two threads to give him an alibi..... I am just joking, but it would be a sweet move and/or something out of a movie with a plot twist.

On a serious note, this really sucks. I hope The OP gets his money back (or the card), and I hope all bad actors involved realize significant consequences.

[Tyruscobb]

The original seller, who is in Oregon, is established. He has 1,365 feedbacks. The seller has 100% positive feedback over the past 12 months. The USPS tracking information shows it delivered the card. My conclusion is that the original seller is legitimate. However, he should have requested a signature to receive the card. That purchase is too large not to require a signature.

The current seller, who is in New Jersey, is not that established. He only has 186 total feedbacks. He is selling your Mantle for $849.99. His next highest card is listed for just $49.99. I always find this scenario a little suspicious. However, it is not dispositive.

You live in NY. This seller lives in Flemington, NY, which is only an hour and 15 minutes from NY. I do not think this is a coincidence. He, a friend, or family member potentially received your card and he is now selling it. The other potential scenario is that he is a good-faith purchaser and purchased the card from the individual that mistakenly received your card.

The questions I have are: (1) when was the card shown as delivered? and (2) when did the current seller list the card?

The lower the days between the two events, the more likely the current seller is involved somehow. The reason is that the person who mistakenly received the card probably lives in NY, and likely near you. That person then has to list the card on some forum. He/she then has to have it delivered to NJ. Selling a card usually takes a few days. Furthermore, it usually takes a few days to receive the card once shipped.

If a week or more past between the two unknown dates then the current seller’s genuineness increases. However, if just a few days passed between the two unknown dates then I strongly question the current seller’s legitimacy. Nonetheless, the current seller knows how he received the card. He should have the seller’s identity. He is the mystery’s Rosetta Stone.

Reach out to him. If he has done nothing wrong, then he should assist you. If he tells you to go pound sand then this casts suspicion all over him. I would also try to search other different forums that cards are sold through. You may luck out and find the posting which you could use to trace the transaction.

I wish you the best of luck. This is an awful situation for you.

[teza11]

I see that the listing has been ended early by the second seller. There's a chance that he/she is trying to do the right thing. Good luck!

Jeff

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by Tyruscobb

The original seller, who is in Oregon, is established. He has 1,365 feedbacks. The seller has 100% positive feedback over the past 12 months. The USPS tracking information shows it delivered the card. My conclusion is that the original seller is legitimate. However, he should have requested a signature to receive the card. That purchase is too large not to require a signature.

Because of coronavirus, no shipping companies are actually collecting/requiring signatures right now. They'll gladly take your cash if you pay for it, but they won't get the confirmation.

[todeen]

I had to sign with FEDEX just last week. Its probably up to the drivers and if they feel safe. Of course, I am in a community that has les than 150 cases since March 15. So risk is low.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[Seven]

Thank you all for commenting, here's the run down of the situation.

1. I got back to New York today, no package still. I reached out to the seller again describing what's going on I'm hoping I get some sort of response.

2. I'm going to the post office again on monday, I don't know if this is going to do anything but I'm hoping I get some resolution

3. I live in Brooklyn, NY. The original Seller was from Oregon, the other seller as many pointed out was from Jersey.

4. I'm not really sure where to proceed to If I don't get this item. Does any one have advice?

Thank you all for commenting.

[Seven]

Originally Posted by Tyruscobb

The original seller, who is in Oregon, is established. He has 1,365 feedbacks. The seller has 100% positive feedback over the past 12 months. The USPS tracking information shows it delivered the card. My conclusion is that the original seller is legitimate. However, he should have requested a signature to receive the card. That purchase is too large not to require a signature.

The current seller, who is in New Jersey, is not that established. He only has 186 total feedbacks. He is selling your Mantle for $849.99. His next highest card is listed for just $49.99. I always find this scenario a little suspicious. However, it is not dispositive.

You live in NY. This seller lives in Flemington, NY, which is only an hour and 15 minutes from NY. I do not think this is a coincidence. He, a friend, or family member potentially received your card and he is now selling it. The other potential scenario is that he is a good-faith purchaser and purchased the card from the individual that mistakenly received your card.

The questions I have are: (1) when was the card shown as delivered? and (2) when did the current seller list the card?

The lower the days between the two events, the more likely the current seller is involved somehow. The reason is that the person who mistakenly received the card probably lives in NY, and likely near you. That person then has to list the card on some forum. He/she then has to have it delivered to NJ. Selling a card usually takes a few days. Furthermore, it usually takes a few days to receive the card once shipped.

If a week or more past between the two unknown dates then the current seller’s genuineness increases. However, if just a few days passed between the two unknown dates then I strongly question the current seller’s legitimacy. Nonetheless, the current seller knows how he received the card. He should have the seller’s identity. He is the mystery’s Rosetta Stone.

Reach out to him. If he has done nothing wrong, then he should assist you. If he tells you to go pound sand then this casts suspicion all over him. I would also try to search other different forums that cards are sold through. You may luck out and find the posting which you could use to trace the transaction.

I wish you the best of luck. This is an awful situation for you.

The card was shown as delieved on Friday at 2:09. I did not receive it so I immediately went to the post office to find out where it was. They said that they didn't know an exact location, and the worker responsible wasn't there. I went to the branch manager and spoke to him, left my information, never heard anything from him.

The new listing which was taken down quickly was posted today I believe. I'm just really bummed out over this entire situation. I'm defintely going to be a lot more careful going forward of who I conduct deals with.

[Tyruscobb]

Originally Posted by Seven

The card was shown as delieved on Friday at 2:09. I did not receive it so I immediately went to the post office to find out where it was. They said that they didn't know an exact location, and the worker responsible wasn't there. I went to the branch manager and spoke to him, left my information, never heard anything from him.

The new listing which was taken down quickly was posted today I believe. I'm just really bummed out over this entire situation. I'm defintely going to be a lot more careful going forward of who I conduct deals with.

So, the USPS mistakenly delivers the card on Friday, June 26, 2020, and the recent seller (who has now taken it down) posts it for sale on Sunday, June 28, 2020?

I highly doubt the current seller is a good faith, bonafide purchaser. Does anyone believe the person that mistakenly received your card immediately sold it to the current holder, who lives an hour and a half away (assuming the card was mistakenly delivered somewhere near you in Brooklyn, NY), who then took possession and listed it all within less than 48 hours after the card was mistakenly delivered? No way; no how. That timeline is too quick.

Again, I would reach out to the card’s current holder. He needs to answer some questions. I would also reach out to eBay again. You have all the screenshots. It needs to ask the card’s holder some serious questions.

You and a friend need to purchaser something from the card’s current holder. Purchase his cheap items. Then you will have his name and address when he ships the items. I recommend having a friend also purchase something cheap from him to ensure he uses the same name and address. Then, contact the local police department.

You only live a little over an hour away from him. I would not let this go. He needs to be prosecuted.

[Tyruscobb]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Because of coronavirus, no shipping companies are actually collecting/requiring signatures right now. They'll gladly take your cash if you pay for it, but they won't get the confirmation.

Even if true, it provides the original seller a safety net and valid argument/defense. If the USPS does not obtain the proper signature, wouldn’t the original seller/shipper have recourse against the USPS? The purpose for paying for and requiring a signature upon delivery is to avoid the very situation that occurred here.

[Seven]

Originally Posted by Tyruscobb

So, the USPS mistakenly delivers the card on Friday, June 26, 2020, and the recent seller (who has now taken it down) posts it for sale on Sunday, June 28, 2020?

I highly doubt the current seller is a good faith, bonafide purchaser. Does anyone believe the person that mistakenly received your card immediately sold it to the current holder, who lives an hour and a half away (assuming the card was mistakenly delivered somewhere near you in Brooklyn, NY), who then took possession and listed it all within less than 48 hours after the card was mistakenly delivered? No way; no how. That timeline is too quick.

Again, I would reach out to the card’s current holder. He needs to answer some questions. I would also reach out to eBay again. You have all the screenshots. It needs to ask the card’s holder some serious questions.

You and a friend need to purchaser something from the card’s current holder. Purchase his cheap items. Then you will have his name and address when he ships the items. I recommend having a friend also purchase something cheap from him to ensure he uses the same name and address. Then, contact the local police department.

You only live a little over an hour away from him. I would not let this go. He needs to be prosecuted.

The not responding to my messages, for the original seller seems very disingenuous. I would expect if a buyer didn't get his item or there where odd circumstances with a situation, you would want to resolve it at as soon as possible. Even a courtesy response would be nice.

It will be interesting to see if the 2nd seller responds to my message. Probably not. Truly one of the oddest experiences I've ever had.

[Seven]

The seller finally reached out and responded to me with this message

"I am sorry you have not received the card. Can you please send me a picture of the new listing so we can provide to my attorney just in case we need it for evidence? I collected the other tracking documents.

Please read my reviews. I have 100% positive rating as both a buyer and seller and have thousands of transactions.

The tracking shows it was delivered on Friday, June 26 at 2:09 pm. Not sure what else I can do online. I will call the USPS & eBay tomorrow and then update you."

Don't really know where to go from here. Not even sure what to believe anymore.

[swarmee]

You don't need to deal with the original seller directly at all. Not sure why you're chasing that lead unless you know they intentionally mailed it to someone else.

If you want eBay to pay out on your claim (and then give up the card), then just file a Not Received claim, the seller will show tracking shows it's delivered, and you'll have to escalate to a manager (most likely) to show that the card is/was being offered for sale by another eBay member. If you don't want eBay to shoulder the cost (because they shouldn't), contact the post office and claim the insurance. If it was uninsured or underinsured, I guess go back to the eBay claim.

If you still want the card, you need to submit a police report for stolen goods, and provide them the new eBay seller information. Or try to work it out with the seller directly, but they should definitely be outed for selling stolen goods. And really, you should want the card. It looks great for the grade, and you got it for a great price (seller to you must have taken a loss based on the March 28th sale through Probstein).

[111gecko]

My gut feeling is the 2nd seller bought this not knowing it was stolen/mis-delivered. If he was part of this; he wouldn't have listed it the next day.

He is probably working with that person to get his money back right now.
I agree with the previous post..this has nothing to do with original seller since it was marked delivered.

The second seller has all the info needed to fix this entire mess and get you your card back...all he needs to do is push back on the guy he bought it from.

[teza11]

James,

What city/State is shown on the delivery confirmation? The obvious answer is Brooklyn, NY but a seller can make changes to the deliver-to address loaded in your eBay profile.

Jeff

[Seven]

Originally Posted by teza11

James,

What city/State is shown on the delivery confirmation? The obvious answer is Brooklyn, NY but a seller can make changes to the deliver-to address loaded in your eBay profile.

Jeff

It stated "delivered at/in mailbox" to Brooklyn NY. Which should technically be my mailbox but it wasn't. I'm hoping to get any answer tomorrow when I go to the postoffice again.

[ctownboy]

Why not file a claim with the Postal Inspectors and have them look into it?

David

[Seven]

Originally Posted by ctownboy

Why not file a claim with the Postal Inspectors and have them look into it?

David

I think that's going to be one of the avenues I look into, depending on what happens tomorrow when I go to the post office. I will keep everyone over here in the loop.

Its also possible the 2nd seller doesn't even have the card in his possession yet. The card could have been shipped with a team bag even though the original listing doesn't show it in a bag (which would make sense, most of us would remove the card to provide a better pic). In fact it would make sense that a novice would take a picture of the card in a team bag rather than taking it out and getting a better pic of the card. My guess, card was misdelivered. Individual who received card in error contacted a friend who he knows has some experience with cards. This second seller lists the card with the photo he was sent and it will be shipped out by the person who received the card in error/or the second seller will ship once he takes possession.

I'd ask the first seller if he shipped the card in a team bag. A random person who received the card wouldn't have one to put it in

[Seven]

Originally Posted by Gobucsmagic74

Its also possible the 2nd seller doesn't even have the card in his possession yet. The card could have been shipped with a team bag even though the original listing doesn't show it in a bag (which would make sense, most of us would remove the card to provide a better pic). In fact it would make sense that a novice would take a picture of the card in a team bag rather than taking it out and getting a better pic of the card. My guess, card was misdelivered. Individual who received card in error contacted a friend who he knows has some experience with cards. This second seller lists the card with the photo he was sent and it will be shipped out by the person who received the card in error/or the second seller will ship once he takes possession.

I'd ask the first seller if he shipped the card in a team bag. A random person who received the card wouldn't have one to put it in

Certainly a possibility. That didn't even cross my mind.

EDIT:

First seller confirmed it was put in a team bag. More and more I'm thinking the package was misdelivered, stolen and then relisted by the person that stole it. Will have more of an idea tomorrow.

Originally Posted by Seven

Certainly a possibility. That didn't even cross my mind.

EDIT:

First seller confirmed it was put in a team bag. More and more I'm thinking the package was misdelivered, stolen and then relisted by the person that stole it. Will have more of an idea tomorrow.

I think the odds are pretty long that the person who errantly received the card also sells baseball cards on ebay. I think there's a stonger likelihood that he/she received the card and shot a picture to the individual who listed it for sale.

One more question. Can the postal service provide a scan of the package, from the tracking number, that would verify the address that the package was mailed to? The reason I ask is if not, couldn't anyone just mail a package wherever they want uninsured, provide a tracking number, and then leave the buyer high and dry?

[Seven]

Originally Posted by Gobucsmagic74

One more question. Can the postal service provide a scan of the package, from the tracking number, that would verify the address that the package was mailed to? The reason I ask is if not, couldn't anyone just mail a package wherever they want uninsured, provide a tracking number, and then leave the buyer high and dry?

That's something I'm going to look into when I go down there tomorrow. This entire situation is exhausting, but I'm determined to find a resolution.

[Jcosta19]

Originally Posted by Seven

That's something I'm going to look into when I go down there tomorrow. This entire situation is exhausting, but I'm determined to find a resolution.

If post office cant provide this you could always ask the seller for a copy of the original shipping label, which should be saved (and dated) in paypal.

You could tell them you need to confirm it was correct for the post office, as to not offend.

I'm sure you want the card more than anything but if you used a credit card through paypal, if all else fails (post office, ebay, etc.), you could also try paypal or your credit card company.

You certainly have enough proof that you never received what you paid for, and fraudulent activity on top of it.

Best of luck.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

[swarmee]

Ask the post office for the GPS location tag where they dropped it. It could have been a porch pirate as well (someone who steals it once it's delivered to your doorstep).

[jayshum]

Apparently, I was reading the thread and posted a response without seeing the last post that suggested basically the same thing.

I don't know what kind of mailbox you have, but is it possible it was delivered correctly to your mailbox then someone else took it from your mailbox before you did?

[cardsagain74]

Originally Posted by toledo_mudhen

Seriously? - Yes is always better to sell the same card more than once

I would definitely contact the seller (and ebay) asking "What up dog?"

As for USPS - just anecdotal but-

I have been on eBay as both buyer and seller since 96 (yea old - right?) and have NEVER had an item actually get lost in the mail. Have had several that got "stuck" at some point in the tracking but eventually everything has always arrived at where it should.

You've somehow danced through the raindrops unscathed for all that time, and against all odds.

I've only been involved again in the hobby for about six months, and there have already been two mis-delivered packages that I likely never would have gotten (had it not been for the honesty of both someone in my apartment building and another person across town).

Then there was the wrong package in my own mailbox yesterday (that I had to drop off down the hall to its rightful owner).

Obviously it doesn't happen that often, but you still see too many of these stories to not always be on alert. So I'm not surprised that the most unlucky ones (like number Seven here...go figure) occasionally hit the daily double of both botched delivery and unscrupulous recipient

[chalupacollects]

Some things to actually do.

1. File the claim with ebay as not received. Its a large amount and they will pay attention to your claims especially with the same card listed on ebay. At least start the process of getting your money back.

2. Get copy of postal receipt/shipping label from original seller to present to post office in Brooklyn.

3. Paid via credit card either direct or Paypal? Start the chargeback process of getting your money back with them. The pressure of either ebay or your credit card company reimbursing you will force them to act.

4. Since your in an apartment in Brooklyn - this is not bad by the way... Sign up through the USPS for "Informed Delivery" service. Its free and everyday you get mail you get a scan of what is being delivered THAT day. Only thing I noticed so far is they don't scan the junk maill...

Good luck!

[swarmee]

Do NOT do a chargeback. That will only hurt the seller, who seems to be innocent in this. And it's a completely unnecessary escalation.

[Seven]

Originally Posted by chalupacollects

Some things to actually do.

1. File the claim with ebay as not received. Its a large amount and they will pay attention to your claims especially with the same card listed on ebay. At least start the process of getting your money back.

2. Get copy of postal receipt/shipping label from original seller to present to post office in Brooklyn.

3. Paid via credit card either direct or Paypal? Start the chargeback process of getting your money back with them. The pressure of either ebay or your credit card company reimbursing you will force them to act.

4. Since your in an apartment in Brooklyn - this is not bad by the way... Sign up through the USPS for "Informed Delivery" service. Its free and everyday you get mail you get a scan of what is being delivered THAT day. Only thing I noticed so far is they don't scan the junk maill...

Good luck!

I actually live in a house, not an apartment. In a pretty good area of brooklyn but I think I will sign up for the informed delivery service. Concerning the chargeback approach, I would really like to wait and see considering that really only hurts the seller, but obviously If I never get the item in my possession, It's going to be an avenue that I might have to explore. I think I will file a claim with ebay, after everything that happened, assuming I do not get the card tomorrow.

[Seven]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Ask the post office for the GPS location tag where they dropped it. It could have been a porch pirate as well (someone who steals it once it's delivered to your doorstep).

This is another thing, that I will do. Thank you for the suggestion.

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by Gobucsmagic74

One more question. Can the postal service provide a scan of the package, from the tracking number, that would verify the address that the package was mailed to? The reason I ask is if not, couldn't anyone just mail a package wherever they want uninsured, provide a tracking number, and then leave the buyer high and dry?

When you print a label through Ebay or Paypal, you enter the address. Even if you hand write a label, the PO clerk enters the address into the system, to get the Zip+4 code and puts a tracking label on the package. The exact address the seller entered should be accessible to the PO by entering the tracking number into the computer. My old neighbor was a PostMaster and I'm sure he explained it that way.

The old scam of sending a similar weighted item to another address in same zip code doesn't work anymore.