O/T: Whats wrong with the world today.

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Posted By: brock

I know this is off topic but i think we should all have the people in all are pray's that were killed today in another shooting in Upstate Ny. What is wrong with the world these days. This is like the 5th shooting in the last two month's. Do you guys think it all connects to the economic troubles or just anger.

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Posted By: David Smith

Personally, I think it stems from the fear mongering that President Bush and Dick Cheney persistantly did since 2004. Every week they were out there saying that the terrorists were wanting to "kill your children and grand children" (when actually what the terrorists were wanting to do was destroy SYMBOLS of America - World Trade Center, Pentagon, White House, etc).

After years of doing that THEN the economic crisis hit and (some) people were/are mentally and emotionally worn out and can't think of (or don't want to) find a way out. So, they turn to violence.

David

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Posted By: JDRUM

Yep, that was it, George Bush.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Doubtful this had anything to do with the economy...Vietnamese dude shoots up a Civic Center where people are taking a citizenship test? I think blaming Bush/Cheney for this is a more than a stretch. Too many copycat psychos with easy access to guns. Columbine happened at a peak in the economy under president Clinton...there were other mass killings that happened prior to that as well...the guy that shot up a Luby's in Texas..the guy that shot up a McDonald's in San Diego. Charlie Starkweather shot up my hometown and killed a bunch of people in the 1950s.

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Posted By: Greg Ecklund

Has a thread ever gone from 0 to Jackass any faster? One response might be a record.

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Posted By: Rob D.

Dang it, I had over-3 in the "Number of posts until someone blames Bush or Obama."

Guess I overestimated the collective IQ.

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Posted By: JDRUM

"Has a thread ever gone from 0 to Jackass any faster? One response might be a record."
Greg, exactly! I wish there was an emoticon for eye rolling.

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Posted By: George HC

"(when actually what the terrorists were wanting to do was destroy SYMBOLS of America - World Trade Center, Pentagon, White House, etc)."

Too bad that while destroying the SYMBOL known as WTC, the terrorists also destroyed the lives of 2064 SYMBOLS of America.

BTW, I'm a democrat and Obama supporter...

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Posted By: Scott T

I think the cheapening of life and the abdication of personal responsibility and self-reliance has a lot to do with it.

Scott

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Posted By: Jason

I hope whoever deleted Larry's post bans him as well. He's a worthless poster that ****s up every board he posts on.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Well, in a few weeks we won't have old Larry to kick around anymore so he'll have to find somewhere else to spew his stupidity. I suspect he knows his time is running out on the Net54 community and he's taking a curtain call.

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Posted By: JB

Unfortunetly this is the world we live in. We have to quit blaming others and take responsibility for the actions we take. Evil will always exist in our world.................we have to deal with it. My thoughts and prayers go out to all those families involved.

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Posted By: Steve F

Some folks are just plain nuts.

I realize this has nothing to do with todays trajedy. In my experience, a common factor with criminality, is a broken home where dad has detached. Many of today's mom's (1960s onward) can barely deal and a teacher's ability to provide any guidance, is hamstrung. Though not a fix-all, deadbeats must be held far more accountable. Perhaps this would be a wake-up call for these losers.

I hope those suffering in NY can find the strength to carry on.

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Posted By: JK

David,

Had the terrorist wanted to destroy a symbol of America, they would have flown a plane into the WTC on a weekend, a holiday, early in the morning, late at night, etc. They instead intentionally flew a passenger plane full of people into the WTC just after 9am on a work day insuring maximum loss of life. No, I think what they wanted was to kill American people.

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Posted By: Robert Dixon

Everything went to the crapper when divorce became accepted practice. Since then, too many kids are growing up without a man in the house. This leads to a much higher percentage of people that end up being wackos.

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Posted By: barrysloate

It was a tragic day but this is an isolated incident. We don't know what this desperate person was thinking but clearly his life spun out of control, and he no longer wanted to live. Why he took others with him is unexplainable.

There have been a number of incidents lately but you can not generalize why it happens. It would be great if it were much harder for deranged people to acquire guns, but this will not change. Just a very sad day, and probably not the last. There are more desperate people out there.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

There have been crazy people doing horrible things since the beginning of time, not just since George Bush became President. Remember Richard Speck? The Tylenol poisoning murders? James Earl Ray? Even Bernie Madoff started his fraud during Clinton's years in the WH.

At some point blaming Bush for all of society's problems will have to end. Really and truly. Because problems will arise some time in the future in which even the most clever speechwriter, who then puts his work on a teleprompter, will be unable to tie to Bush.

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Posted By: Jamie Boneparth

It's silly to blame Bush directly, but I definitely I feel that these murders, and the ones like them, are related to the economy, and you'd be naive to think otherwise.

The Bush/Cheney regime clearly didn't help any, but the broad systemic failures go far beyond a couple of men. And remember, we voted for them - twice!

So it's easy to find a scapegoat, but realistically, what is going on is very tragic, but not worth killing yourself or others for. We are worth so much more than just what we do for a living. Look at it that way, and you will be fine

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Posted By: Jamie Boneparth

And as for the terrorist line: no, they want to kill us ALL, not just the "symbols" of America... really, you need to stop hanging out so much with Jimmy Carter.

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Posted By: leon

To me blaming these acts on any political party is absurd. Crazy people do crazy things. I have long said the biggest problem with America is Parenting....so for those that mentioned this, I couldn't agree more. The bad acts might still happen but far less frequently.

edited for clarity

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Posted By: Ted Sherman

"The Bush/Cheney regime clearly didn't help any, but the broad systemic failures go far beyond a couple of men. And remember, we voted for them - twice! "

Actually the housing "bubble" started with Bill Clinton when he decided to start FNMA and FHLMC census tract, borrowers with less than perfect income and credit to qualify to buy houses in distressed areas at a discounted rate. That opened the gates for the subprime boom.


I think it is a shame all this madness in the world, I know that news, and internet has shrunk the globe and we hear more about the murders. The news also is 90% negative now, since misery loves company. We are on a downward spiral until Dec 21, 2012 or whenever we blow ourselves up (kidding) lets just all do our part to stop violence when we see it, and try to be positive and be the upright person another can rely on in times of need.

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Posted By: Jamie Boneparth

Well, I coached soccer for five years, and I can tell you the parents are LUNATICS - at least, many of them. There are some very nice ones with real values.

But there is so much pressure on kids today. People treat their children like possessions and want to boost their "stock" as much as possible. That's why every child has to go to the finest of schools, etc. - the children are seen like objects.

As for divorces, my folks went through one, I wouldn't really wish it on anyone. And yes, my folks' divorce was caused by flawed values. Society creates this. Turn on a television? All you see is violence, casual sex, etc.

Yet that's also Al Queda's complaint. (clearly doesn't justify terrorism, though)

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Posted By: Dan Koteles

I encounter a terrorist driver everyday, so what's that tell you ?

There are blatantly weird whacked out people all over the place ,in every corner ,circle , sphere, next to you ,behind your house, etc, etc, etc...sometimes I adjust them.

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Posted By: Jamie Boneparth

Ted,

I agree that Clinton made that mistake and that partly caused the housing bubble, but the main factor was that China was aggressively buying our treasury bonds which artificially lowered mortgage rates, inflating the values of all homes...

Also, remember it was Bush's dream to have every American own their own home. My point is that it is a larger systemic failure and can NOT be blamed on one person.

Jamie

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Posted By: David McDonald

What's wrong with the world today? Too much guns. Second Amendment run amok. It's a dangerous world. Always has been. Never gonna change. Blaming Dubya or Clinton is silly.

PS. Any NRA types aboard, please don't flame me. I am not anti-gun. Kept a .38 in the nightstand for many years. Just think that "the right to bear arms not being infringed upon" has gotten us to the point that there's an insane amount of weaponry out there and there's too much not-so-sane people to go along.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Guys, I'm thinking it's time we go back to cards. It is getting increasingly painful to read some of the ignorance displayed here. In a few more minutes I'll be off cards and onto comic books.

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Posted By: marty q

i really dont want to respond but..... david smith you are kidding right!!! if not your clueless!!! and i am being nice, i was there on 9/11 jumping over body parts pal, i guess they were symbols of america!!! that has to rank as one of the most stupid post's i have read here...message to david- they were trying for 20,000 and at the same time ruining the country's economy, along with chain of command and military power, maybe that was it david!!!! yeah concrete and steel.....that was what they wanted...

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Posted By: Peter_Spaeth

After two years, the below has been surpassed as the most ridiculous post ever.

Shoeless Joe Jackson
February 20 2007 at 2:59 PM peter chao (Login pchaos)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Guys,

Did Shoeless Joe ever play in the majors without shoes. If he did, how did he avoid getting spiked.

Peter

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Posted By: David McDonald

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Posted By: Jim Thierfelder

Not a flame but I wondered how long it would take before someone pointed to the proliferation of guns in our society. Actually took much longer than I thought. And as for blaming Bush that is even more absurd.

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Posted By: George

It is only a matter of time before one of these Bush-bashing morons accuses him of starting World War II.

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Posted By: marty q

peter s- there have been so many peter c moments in cyber time i forget whats real and whats memorex, is that peter c post real?? if so i nominate hilm the king of many a category! you could only imagine the list.........lol......that was too funny, thanks for that peter.... oh btw, how did he keep from geting spiked?

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Posted By: Tim

The 24 hours news media and their instant coverage of all things horrific make the world seem a much more depressing and evil place. If good news sold advertising space we would all feel better but it doesn't.

Don't buy into all the negativity. We are for the most part good people doing good things but the spotlight is shown upon bad people doing bad things.

Don't believe the hype!!!

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Posted By: David McDonald

Jim T: All I was trying to say is that I think there are too many guns out there and too many nutcases. You do the math.

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Posted By: Patrick McHugh

The only one responsible is the person who did this . It is not anyone or anything to blame for this persons actions except himself. Personal responsibility is lacking bigtime in our culture. It is always someone elses fault or something made me do this. To me the only excuse is there is no excuse. My thoughts and prayers go out to all the loved ones family and friends.

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Posted By: Richard Simon

Though this story is 10 years old, I think that the statistics are pretty much the same.

----


The United States leads the world's richest nations in gun deaths -- murders, suicides, and accidental deaths due to guns - according to a study published April 17, 1998 by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) in the International Journal of Epidemiology.

The U.S. was first at 14.24 gun deaths per 100,000 people. Two other countries in the Americas came next. Brazil was second with 12.95, followed by Mexico with 12.69.

Japan had the lowest rate, at 0.05 gun deaths per 100,000 (1 per 2 million people). The police in Japan actively raid homes of those suspected of having weapons.

The 36 countries in the study were the richest in the World Bank's 1994 World Development Report, having the highest GNP per capita income.

The United States accounted for 45 percent of the 88,649 gun deaths reported in the study, the first comprehensive international scrutiny of gun-related deaths.

The gun-related deaths per 100,000 people in 1994 by country were as follows:

U.S.A. 14.24
Brazil 12.95
Mexico 12.69
Estonia 12.26
Argentina 8.93
Northern Ireland 6.63
Finland 6.46
Switzerland 5.31
France 5.15
Canada 4.31
Norway 3.82
Austria 3.70
Portugal 3.20
Israel 2.91
Belgium 2.90
Australia 2.65
Slovenia 2.60
Italy 2.44
New Zealand 2.38
Denmark 2.09
Sweden 1.92
Kuwait 1.84
Greece 1.29
Germany 1.24
Hungary 1.11
Ireland 0.97
Spain 0.78
Netherlands 0.70
Scotland 0.54
England and Wales 0.41
Taiwan 0.37
Singapore 0.21
Mauritius 0.19
Hong Kong 0.14
South Korea 0.12
Japan 0.05


I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.
Unknown author
--
We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember.
No retreat baby, no surrender.
The Boss

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Posted By: Big J

"The heart is deceitful and desperately wicked; who can know it?"
(Jeremiah, Holy Bible)

That is the answer in a nutshell.

www.bbnchat.org

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Posted By: Anonymous

Absolutely real, a cut and paste.

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Posted By: Richard Simon

Big J - you stated "The heart is deceitful and desperately wicked". Why does Japan and England have so many less deceitful and wicked hearts than in the United States, Mexico and Brazil?
==

I refuse to engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.
Unknown author
--
We made a promise. We swore we'd always remember.
No retreat baby, no surrender.
The Boss

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Posted By: Bob C.

Since this thread is veering to and fro, I am outraged the current U.S. president is touring Europe repeatedly apologizing for the past administration being responsible for the sorry state of current world affairs. And not doing it very elegantly from what I have seen of his repeated flubbing of his teleprompter lines.
His handlers should tell him he is no longer campaigning - he should be leading. Never complain never explain.
My two cents on this grey Saturday morning. And prayers to those unfortunate victims and their families in New York.

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Posted By: chiprop

This thread sucks! Stop posting headlines unless they're baseball related. Who wants to talk about real estate? How about the lady that popped 8 kids out last month? How about this...http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/learn-how-to-invest/The-real-unemployment-rate.aspx ? There are a ton of bad things that happen every day and I don't want to hear about them here. This is where we come to to get away from this sh*t, and talk about our retarded hobby. Imagine if I went to a financial forum and started talking about the variations of a t-206 back and why a red hindu is worth 10 times what a brown is worth? Lock it up, Leon.

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Posted By: leon

The forum rules have been in place for years. I don't see them changing soon. Skip the threads you don't like. With all due respect if we waited to respond to all of the good threads you have started in the last month we would all be sitting at our keyboards doing nothing. I respect your opinion and our friendship even more....but the forum is what it is. I also don't see the new forum's operational procedures changing too much either. Sorry if this thread offends you....just go to the next one. take care

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Posted By: Scott T

I'll refrain from the usual "guns don't kill people, people dp" reply. Sadly, our judicial system is so nuts that if someone does shoot another, it takes 20 years before any punishment is given. (Prison isn't the greatest place to live, but it is still bettere than a decent percentage of the world.)

Scott

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Posted By: JimB

Leon,
These off-topic political fights just lead to the deterioration of the community here and the quality of the board. Why not lock them up at the start? Free speech is great, but this is a baseball card forum. Just my .02.
JimB

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Posted By: leon

Just insert your name in my last response to Dan. Not only do I disagree I think we get to know each other a little better with some off topic. Just skip the threads you don't care to participate in...or better yet start a good one. best regards

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Posted By: Steve

I think it all went bad when they took the gum out of the packs.

From that point forward it all went to hell.


Steve

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Posted By: JimB

Leon,
It is your forum and you are entitled to your opinion and to run it as you wish. But I can guarantee you for hearing it from many people, that the negative tone of threads like these political ones, drive people away from this forum - and not just the political threads. Hearing people's crazy political theories does not endear me to them or help create community. Occasional off-topic stuff on music or Seinfeld is fine for that, but politics is divisive.
JimB

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Posted By: JDRUM

I appreciate the fact that politics/religion/social issues and commentary can be divisive. My question is whether there is a mysterious force that compels people who find them so distasteful to read them? I would agree that if the board was overrun with such drivel I would find it annoying but to the extent that the passionate folks here engage in such OT discourse, I can take it or leave it. Just my .02 and worth just about that as I don't start many meaningful threads.

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Posted By: chiprop

Leon... Really? At least the threads I do start are vintage card related. That's gotta mean something. Anyone can start a thread about random acts of violence and you'd give 'em more credit than someone who's threads are relevant to the forum rules? Anyway, you and I are cool and I don't really care if these threads are here, but I really do enjoy coming to the board and getting away from the crazy sh*t in our Fu*ked up world, and this kind of thread sucks to look at. Dan

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Posted By: leon

I do agree with you. I would rather come here to get AWAY from the crap...I just don't think it's the right thing to do to moderate too much. We (moderators) won't let it get too out of hand for too long. I do wish we would get back to cards, always. best regards