Are gentleman's agreements a thing of the past, or did I expect too much?

[Vintagedeputy]

I routinely participate in many live, online auctions. As part of this, I review preview photos to look for items that I want to add to my collection. In a recent sale, I saw a baseball pinback button that I wanted in a box with other pinback buttons.

On the day of the sale, I was unfortunately at work so when I joined the live sale, I told the seller that I only had a moment and I asked if he'd run the button I wanted. He agreed but ran all the buttons as one lot.

Before I could say anything, another buyer jumped in and bought the lot that I asked for. That buyer then messaged me and said that he wanted all the other pinback buttons and not the one I wanted, and we could talk later about selling me the one I wanted when I was no longer at work. Two days later, I messaged him and said to please let me know when they arrived as I really just wanted that one button.

Last night he messaged me and said that now, his brother wants that baseball button and family comes first, so I'm SOL even though we had what I felt was a gentleman's agreement, I feel that it was a shitty move to begin with that he swooped in when I am the one who asked the seller to run the item quickly since I was at work, and then he reneges on his offer to sell.

Was I expecting too much here?

[SyrNy1960]

Originally Posted by Vintagedeputy

I routinely participate in many live, online auctions. As part of this, I review preview photos to look for items that I want to add to my collection. In a recent sale, I saw a baseball pinback button that I wanted in a box with other pinback buttons.

On the day of the sale, I was unfortunately at work so when I joined the live sale, I told the seller that I only had a moment and I asked if he'd run the button I wanted. He agreed but ran all the buttons as one lot.

Before I could say anything, another buyer jumped in and bought the lot that I asked for. That buyer then messaged me and said that he wanted all the other pinback buttons and not the one I wanted, and we could talk later about selling me the one I wanted when I was no longer at work. Two days later, I messaged him and said to please let me know when they arrived as I really just wanted that one button.

Last night he messaged me and said that now, his brother wants that baseball button and family comes first, so I'm SOL even though we had what I felt was a gentleman's agreement, I feel that it was a shitty move to begin with that he swooped in when I am the one who asked the seller to run the item quickly since I was at work, and then he reneges on his offer to sell.

Was I expecting too much here?

No, I don't think so. Especially when he was the one who reached out to you about selling you the pinback button. I would have been pretty bummed also.

[Vintagedeputy]

Originally Posted by SyrNy1960

No, I don't think so. Especially when he was the one who reached out to you about selling you the pinback button. I would have been pretty bummed also.

Thank you. That’s what I felt as well.

[rand1com]

Well, I had an agreement with a seller to buy an item on this forum B/S/T and while waiting to get payment information was sent a message that the seller had gotten a better offer and had sold it out from under me so it happens even here.

Unfortunately, family and/or more money will trump most seller's honesty.

Sad but true.

[Vintagedeputy]

Originally Posted by rand1com

Well, I had an agreement with a seller to buy an item on this forum B/S/T and while waiting to get payment information was sent a message that the seller had gotten a better offer and had sold it out from under me so it happens even here.

Unfortunately, family and/or more money will trump most seller's honesty.

Sad but true.

That sucks. Sorry that happened.

[edtiques]

Originally Posted by rand1com

Well, I had an agreement with a seller to buy an item on this forum B/S/T and while waiting to get payment information was sent a message that the seller had gotten a better offer and had sold it out from under me so it happens even here.

Unfortunately, family and/or more money will trump most seller's honesty.

Sad but true.

That's really weak. It amazes me that some people lose sight of their reputation when it comes to a few dollars. My reputation's worth more than a couple of bucks to me.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Vintagedeputy

That buyer then messaged me and said that he wanted all the other pinback buttons and not the one I wanted, and we could talk later about selling me the one I wanted when I was no longer at work.

I don't think you have a valid complaint because you didn't have a deal. He could've "talked" with you and thrown a ridiculously high offer at you, which would've fulfilled your agreement with him and still left you pinback-less.

His brother wanting it wasn't something he could've foreseen, so I don't think he sounds like a jerk either.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by rand1com

Well, I had an agreement with a seller to buy an item on this forum B/S/T and while waiting to get payment information was sent a message that the seller had gotten a better offer and had sold it out from under me so it happens even here.

Unfortunately, family and/or more money will trump most seller's honesty.

Sad but true.

That is utter BS. Would appreciate a PM or post of that amazing members ID.

Without an actual price I can see their side of it going to the brother. Saying that I personally would have tried finishing the deal with the OP first. I have had similar happen several times including on here.

[gonefishin]

Originally Posted by Mark17

I don't think you have a valid complaint because you didn't have a deal. He could've "talked" with you and thrown a ridiculously high offer at you, which would've fulfilled your agreement with him and still left you pinback-less.

His brother wanting it wasn't something he could've foreseen, so I don't think he sounds like a jerk either.

I agree with Mark. Sadly, I can't really find fault with the auctioneer or the buyer. It's unfortunate that your work came before the auction. Good luck down the road.

[Topnotchsy]

It sucks to have something you wanted come up in auction, take the step to have the auctioneer move the time, miss it, have another chance, and then have that slip through your fingers. Especially on a rare PC item, that stings.

I agree with a few others though. The fact that the auctioneer moved up the auction or sale definitely didn't mean that no one else had a right to pursue the item. And since you did not have a deal worked out with the buyer, I also don't see him as reneging on a deal.

Frustrating sure. Could he have communicated better or held his tongue initially. Of course. But not sure that makes him dishonest etc.

I'd ask him to just connecct you with the brother and see whether there is a chance to work something out now or later.

[SyrNy1960]

For me, if my brother told he wanted it, I would have told him “Sorry, but I already committed to sell it to someone else.” That would be the right thing to do.

[edtiques]

Originally Posted by SyrNy1960

For me, if my brother told he wanted it, I would have told him “Sorry, but I already committed to sell it to someone else.” That would be the right thing to do.

You're 100% correct. They were already spoken for.

[Vintagedeputy]

Originally Posted by Mark17

I don't think you have a valid complaint because you didn't have a deal.

Agree that we didn't have a deal, but he did offer it to me and never gave me a chance to purchase it.

[Vintagedeputy]

Originally Posted by Topnotchsy

It sucks to have something you wanted come up in auction, take the step to have the auctioneer move the time, miss it, have another chance, and then have that slip through your fingers. Especially on a rare PC item, that stings.

I agree with a few others though. The fact that the auctioneer moved up the auction or sale definitely didn't mean that no one else had a right to pursue the item. And since you did not have a deal worked out with the buyer, I also don't see him as reneging on a deal.

Frustrating sure. Could he have communicated better or held his tongue initially. Of course. But not sure that makes him dishonest etc.

I'd ask him to just connect you with the brother and see whether there is a chance to work something out now or later.

The auctioneer hadn't set a price yet, so when I asked him to run this item first for me as I was at work, I expected him to give a number and that I'd have a chance to take it or pass. If I was in an auction and someone asked for something (as I've seen in the past), I would have waited for them to pass before pursuing.

I didn't have a deal worked out, but he messaged me offering to sell it when it arrived and then went back on that without giving me the chance to buy. That's a shitty move in my book.

[Vintagedeputy]

Originally Posted by SyrNy1960

For me, if my brother told he wanted it, I would have told him “Sorry, but I already committed to sell it to someone else.” That would be the right thing to do.

Originally Posted by edtiques

You're 100% correct. They were already spoken for.

Thank you. That's how I feel as well.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Vintagedeputy

Agree that we didn't have a deal, but he did offer it to me and never gave me a chance to purchase it.

I'm curious if you're seeing this as a one-way street or a two-way street.

Suppose he called you to offer the item as agreed, and then said the price was way higher than what you expected. What would you have done? Paid much more than it was worth, or decline to purchase?

If the latter, couldn't he have claimed, as you are now, that he had agreed to sell, and you had agreed to purchase. but now you are backing out of the sale?

That's why I say, since you hadn't agreed on a deal, with terms (price) specified, he didn't renege on anything. I assume you were reserving the right to "renege" if his ask had been too high, right?

[Vintagedeputy]

Originally Posted by Mark17

I'm curious if you're seeing this as a one-way street or a two-way street.

Suppose he called you to offer the item as agreed, and then said the price was way higher than what you expected. What would you have done? Paid much more than it was worth, or decline to purchase?

If the latter, couldn't he have claimed, as you are now, that he had agreed to sell, and you had agreed to purchase. but now you are backing out of the sale?

That's why I say, since you hadn't agreed on a deal, with terms (price) specified, he didn't renege on anything. I assume you were reserving the right to "renege" if his ask had been too high, right?

Interesting thought. If he requested a ridiculously high price, I probably would have tried to negotiate a more-fair price. Unfortunately, he never gave me that chance because he declined to sell as he had indicated that he would. I guess my declination would have been dependent upon what number he actually came up with.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Vintagedeputy

Interesting thought. If he requested a ridiculously high price, I probably would have tried to negotiate a more-fair price. Unfortunately, he never gave me that chance because he declined to sell as he had indicated that he would. I guess my declination would have been dependent upon what number he actually came up with.

So, you're saying you reserved the option to not buy. Why didn't he (in your opinion) have the option to not sell?

[Vintagedeputy]

Originally Posted by Mark17

So, you're saying you reserved the option to not buy. Why didn't he (in your opinion) have the option to not sell?

Not buying never came up. My last intent was to buy. His initial intent was to sell and then he pulled back. He contacted me and made the offer to sell.

[SyrNy1960]

Originally Posted by Vintagedeputy

Thank you. That’s what I felt as well.

Jim, at the end of the day for you, it is about how you see it and how you feel about it. And what others have said are also valid. Many ways to look at this. It definitely sucks, but this happen all the time. Good luck and hope you find another one soon.

[Vintagedeputy]

Originally Posted by SyrNy1960

Jim, at the end of the day for you, it is about how you see it and how you feel about it. And what others have said are also valid. Many ways to look at this. It definitely sucks, but this happen all the time. Good luck and hope you find another one soon.

Thank you. Its just all part of my disappointment with people in general these days and how they act. I guess I just grew up differently. I'll find another one. I'm not worried about that.

[Bcwcardz]

Originally Posted by rand1com

Well, I had an agreement with a seller to buy an item on this forum B/S/T and while waiting to get payment information was sent a message that the seller had gotten a better offer and had sold it out from under me so it happens even here.

Unfortunately, family and/or more money will trump most seller's honesty.

Sad but true.

Sadly, for $5 some will ruin their reputation and the funny thing is they have no qualms about it. It makes me wonder how they are in just every day life. It sucks but you will run across all types everywhere you go.


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[molenick]

I am confused about the auction. It was a live auction and the lots were set to go in a specific order with specific items in them, but the auctioneer moved up one of the lots?

And the button you wanted was part of the lot, and you wanted the auctioneer to remove the button from the lot and run it separately (which he did not do)?

People often time out live auctions...for example, if they bid on lot 100 and the next lot they are interested in is lot 200, they might step away for a bit knowing they have some time before the next lot they want. But in the scenario you requested, they could come back and see that lot 200 was moved up and was sold already? And also that it was missing one item which was sold as a new separate lot not previously scheduled?

Or am I misunderstanding something about the initial auction? It sounds like a recipe for chaos if a live auction moves the timing of the lots (which they did do) and also changes what is in the lots (which they did not do but which you asked them to do).

[Vintagedeputy]

Originally Posted by molenick

I am confused about the auction. It was a live auction and the lots were set to go in a specific order with specific items in them, but the auctioneer moved up one of the lots?

There was no specific order and its more of a BIN sale than an auction. No lots were numbered or anything like that. It was literally random items on tables and the seller walks around naming prices. It generally goes something like this - "Coke sign $10, box of baseball cards $20, old brown bottle, $5"...If you saw something in a preview photo, it could literally be an hour before the seller showed that item and named a price. When you see an item you want at the price named, you reply and the seller stops, pulls the item and labels it sold to you. It's a bit of organized chaos.

Originally Posted by molenick

And the button you wanted was part of the lot, and you wanted the auctioneer to remove the button from the lot and run it separately (which he did not do)?

The button was not necessarily part of a lot. It was in a "tray" which is how some of these sales run. Some sellers use soda can cardboard trays, shoe box lids, etc. Sometimes they sell everything in a tray as one lot, and sometimes they say "each item in this tray is $5 each, tell me which ones you want" and they sell items individually. You just never know how they're going to sell it. Sometimes they'll start selling the tray as a whole and someone will mention that they want one item and then they separate. Again, organized chaos.

[molenick]

Got it...not what I pictured at all, and thank you for explaining it. I was not familiar with that auction format.

Sorry the post-sale deal did not go through.

[Vintagedeputy]

Originally Posted by molenick

Got it...not what I pictured at all, and thank you for explaining it. I was not familiar with that auction format.

It threw me off the first time I saw that format as well. You get used to it and its fun. Sometimes, you find some goodies and most of the time, you see crap. I always ask for vintage sports memorabilia and they usually say that they have some 1990 Topps cards....LOL.

[JMEnglish27]

Ugh...sorry that happened. I've been thru a similar incident but not here.

Would definitely give me pause if dealing with the same person ever came up again.

[Exhibitman]

Well, this is a multiple part question.

Let's not conflate manners and agreements. There is either a binding agreement or there isn't.

Asking a third-party seller to run an item does not give you dibs on it. By its nature, the sale is public, and everyone has the right to go after it. The analog analogue is when you are going through a 3600-count box at a show: that doesn't give you dibs on the box.

Once the buyer of the lot contacted you to make a deal, it does not sound like you got to the point of an offer and acceptance, so there is no contract. That said, it would be good hobby etiquette to allow you a shot at the item before it goes elsewhere, just as it is good hobby etiquette to allow a person to finish looking at a row of cards before starting at the other end of it. However, family takes precedence over etiquette. If the winning bidder's brother really wanted the item and you don't have a binding agreement to purchase it, peace in the family takes priority. After all, you don't have to sit down at Thanksgiving with him for the next 30 years and hear about how you screwed him out of the item in favor of a stranger .