Let's All Remember Thurman Munson Today

[JollyElm]

Clear as day I still remember coming home on that hot August day in 1979 and being greeted by my brother with tears in his eyes who told me The Captain had died in a plane crash. That utter despair is still burned into my soul 35 years later. What a terrible, terrible shame.

I was a Mets fan who became partial to Reggie Jackson on the Yanks, but I loved Thurman Munson's grittiness as a player and his leadership of a team that was seemingly always awash in strife. What a clutch player he was!!

Rest in peace, Thurm.

[vthobby]

Red Sox fan myself and the neighborhood in Vermont was half Yankees and half Sox fans but we were all friends.

I was in my kitchen at a robust 12 years old and the phone rang. It was my buddy telling me the news.

I always respected his game and the heated rivalry he had with Fisk. I truly believe he belongs in the Hall. I would have no issues with that. Mike

[batsballsbases]

I to remember that day like it was yesterday. My favorite player of all time. I think that is why I could never sell his Jersey!

[Econteachert205]

His case for Hall of Fame induction should be strong based on comps with Campanella if you ask me.

[batsballsbases]

Originally Posted by Econteachert205

His case for Hall of Fame induction should be strong based on comps with Campanella if you ask me.

+1 I agree!

[ErikV]

I was 11 in 1979. I vaguely remember the day his plane crashed.
I cut out the pictures from the newspaper that day. I have a
picture printed in the newspaper of his burnt plane, but I don't know
if it's appropriate to post it on a public message board like this.

ErikV

I do remember one week after Munson's death, Dodger owner Walter O'Malley passed.

[Chesbro41]

Thurman was a throwback. His '71 to me is one of the greatest Topps cards ever made. The photo defines baseball.

[Peter_Spaeth]

It's a terrible shame he died young, but let's not kid ourselves about the Hall of Fame.

Hall Of Fame StatisticsPlayer rank in (·)


Gray Ink Batting - 46 (551), Average HOFer ≈ 144

Hall of Fame Monitor Batting - 90 (195), Likely HOFer ≈ 100

Hall of Fame Standards Batting - 29 (346), Average HOFer ≈ 50

Hall of Fame
1981 BBWAA (15.5%)
1982 BBWAA ( 6.3%)
1983 BBWAA ( 4.8%)
1984 BBWAA ( 7.2%)
1985 BBWAA ( 8.1%)
1986 BBWAA ( 8.2%)
1987 BBWAA ( 6.8%)
1988 BBWAA ( 7.5%)
1989 BBWAA ( 6.9%)
1990 BBWAA ( 7.4%)
1991 BBWAA ( 6.3%)
1992 BBWAA ( 7.4%)
1993 BBWAA ( 9.5%)
1994 BBWAA ( 6.8%)
1995 BBWAA ( 6.5%)

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Econteachert205

His case for Hall of Fame induction should be strong based on comps with Campanella if you ask me.

Campanella was a star in the Negro Leagues for seven years before the big leagues were integrated, won 3 MVPs, and had twice as many HR as Munson.

[Kenny Cole]

Unfortunately IMO, you don't get any extra HOF consideration for dying young while playing great. Joss and Youngs are the only two exceptions I can think of and their elections came decades after their deaths and in Youngs' case, during what is generally considered to be the apex of veterans committee cronyism. I don't see it happening.

[JollyElm]

Why don't you two take your soap boxes somewhere else. Jesus!! Have some class.

[Econteachert205]

This from a Red Sox Fan, but I do think Munson has HOF chops. Campanella played 500 games in the negro leagues and started playing at 16 but reasonably speaking how many extra mlb seasons would Campy have had? His accident occured when he was 35, Munson's when he was 32, so if you consider that 3 years difference and comp Campanella those years on the front end it's a wash. Munson had less power but better average, both were winners on winning teams. If I look at it from a yankee perspective, how is Joe Gordon in and Munson not? What about a Lou Boudreau? My argument really is less about whether Munson belongs in the Hall on a stand alone basis. It's more about the fact that the Hall sometimes seems to be about pure excellence, and other times about politics, popularity and emotion. If it is the latter, and it is, then what harm to the "integrity" of the hall is it to add a guy who was 10 years in and on his way and killed through no fault of his own?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

Why don't you two take your soap boxes somewhere else. Jesus!! Have some class.

Are we dishonoring his memory by discussing his HOF credentials? Give me a break.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Kenny Cole

Unfortunately IMO, you don't get any extra HOF consideration for dying young while playing great. Joss and Youngs are the only two exceptions I can think of and their elections came decades after their deaths and in Youngs' case, during what is generally considered to be the apex of veterans committee cronyism. I don't see it happening.

You're just not going to get into the Hall with 113 HR and 701 RBI, whether you die young or your career is cut short otherwise. But that has no bearing in my opinion on his legacy as the best catcher of the 70s == yeah he was better than Fisk.

[vthobby]

Lets see.....

Do any of these Hall of Famers ring a bell?

Bid McPhee....I thought not!

Schoendienst: 84 HRs, almost the same RBIs as Munson in almost double the time and lower OBP than Munson .337

Lindstrom: 1747 hits just a smidge over Munson, 103 whopping HRs, and about the same RBIs as Munson

Aparicio: .311 on base %

Tinker: he thanks the heavens they made Poets

and how about another Catcher that is in the hall: Ray Schalk (less hits, less RBIs, .253 BA, and .340 on base (all below Munson)

Munson: 7 time all star, 1 MVP, 1558 hits, .292 BA, .346 on base % and all this from a Catcher which is one of the most demanding positions on the Diamond.

If you doubt his Hall of Fame potential then you are delusional as are 90% of the writers that follow the herd.

Oh....and I'm a Red Sox Fan!

Nuff Said McGreavy

[JMANOS]

He was my favorite player and my mother went to high school with him at Canton Lehman High in Canton as well as his sister Darla Munson.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by vtgmsc

Lets see.....

Do any of these Hall of Famers ring a bell?

Bid McPhee....I thought not!

Schoendienst: 84 HRs, almost the same RBIs as Munson in almost double the time and lower OBP than Munson .337

Lindstrom: 1747 hits just a smidge over Munson, 103 whopping HRs, and about the same RBIs as Munson

Aparicio: .311 on base %

Tinker: he thanks the heavens they made Poets

and how about another Catcher that is in the hall: Ray Schalk (less hits, less RBIs, .253 BA, and .340 on base (all below Munson)

Munson: 7 time all star, 1 MVP, 1558 hits, .292 BA, .346 on base % and all this from a Catcher which is one of the most demanding positions on the Diamond.

If you doubt his Hall of Fame potential then you are delusional as are 90% of the writers that follow the herd.

Oh....and I'm a Red Sox Fan!

Nuff Said McGreavy

You just identified perhaps the 6 least worthy members of the Hall to make your case. The far better question is, if those guys are in, why not Garvey, Hodges and Oliva?

[vthobby]

That's not the point. You missed it.

mike

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by vtgmsc

That's not the point. You missed it.

mike

I didn't miss it at all. Naming 6 people who should NOT be in the HOF does not mean someone comparable SHOULD be. It's ultimately an argument for infinite expansion.

[Econteachert205]

I think it's more an argument for a purely statistical based HOF which is why the women's golf hof is so interesting.

[Econteachert205]

Sandy Koufax is another interesting one to consider. Five dominant years, has to retire due to injury... Dizzy Dean as well. At this point the baseball HOF is so hopelessly subjective I don't think we can even split hairs.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Econteachert205

I think it's more an argument for a purely statistical based HOF which is why the women's golf hof is so interesting.

Yes, I would place more faith in stats than cronyism, misplaced nostalgia of veterans' committees, pro-Yankee bias (Joe Gordon!!), etc.

[vthobby]

Peter,

Amongst those HOF players I mentioned do you know how many MVPs they won?

That's right....exactly one less than Munson. He was one of the best at the game for a decade, he has stats that compare to about 10 others in the Hall. His life was cut short through no fault of his own. He deserves a plaque. Whether your expansion theory is justified is also not the point.

In the next thread you'll probably try to regale me with stories of Half-lifes in relation to the Hall. Hrumphh!

mike

[Peter_Spaeth]

He had four good years, maybe five. Let's not overstate the case here.

[vthobby]

Although I also like the '71 Munson, this was one of my favorite cards of the 1970s (and also the 1976 Yaz card).

Love this shot!

mike

PS....there....back on track!

[sniffy5]

I love watching the points being made for Munson. I'm a Long Island strong Yankee fan and when I was watching a Gilligans Island rerun at 4:30pm and the scroll at the bottom of the screen told of Thurman's death, my 10 year old heart felt its first real loss. The guy was a true, loud, demonstrative leader (unlike Jeter). Munson did not just lead by example. He led by leading. But Peter is right, he is not a HOF'er. And neither is Mattingly, and Donnie is closer than Thurman. But that fact does nothing, absolutely nothing, to diminish either of their legacies in my mind. They will always be special. That's all that is important to me.

[FourStrikes]

Originally Posted by sniffy5

i love watching the points being made for munson. I'm a long island strong yankee fan and when i was watching a gilligans island rerun at 4:30pm and the scroll at the bottom of the screen told of thurman's death, my 10 year old heart felt its first real loss. The guy was a true, loud, demonstrative leader (unlike jeter). Munson did not just lead by example. He led by leading. But peter is right, he is not a hof'er. And neither is mattingly, and donnie is closer than thurman. But that fact does nothing, absolutely nothing, to diminish either of their legacies in my mind. They will always be special. That's all that is important to me.

.
+1

[SAllen2556]

[MacDice]

Love that image on his 1971 card. One of the best looking cards IMO