News From SGC

[Leon]

If ya'll want an SGC poll I wouldn't stop it. Why would I? You might consider having it show each members user id, by their votes, so there is no
"haters" stuffing the ballot box but even that is up to whomever starts the poll. regards

[oldjudge]

SGC always had a face for the hobby. First Dave, then Sean, then Derek. The remaining graders may be fine, but there is no face to the company and the face was what made it more user friendly. Besides, there is no grader in the industry that I trust more than Derek. He was born to grade.

[botn]

All former Customer Service employees are gone.
The Vice President is gone.
Now the head grader is gone, again, tools of the trade and all.
And the PO Box is no longer valid but they did not think to let anyone know.

The good news is that the name will remain the same and the
fearless and beloved leader was released from a 400K debt for purchases of baseball
cards he was buying for resale so maybe he has more money to toss into the infrastructure.

[srs1a]

This is the 2nd time that Mr. Grady has left SGC. The first time was a period of very rapid growth for SGC. I don't think that this had to do with the departure of Derek, but more to do with the grading and customer service staff that the had at the time.

I think that SGC has its hands full at the present and they need to respond in some way. All of the people that interfaced with the collecting community are gone. Some portion of their operations have been sold to JSA, but how much and what are the specifics?

They retain their core graders, but not much more. I've been a very loyal SGC customer for more than 10 years now, but at present, I'm not sure what to think. Perhaps someone on the inside might think it an appropriate time to comment. It's been a dark hole of information since the JSA acquisition and the accompanying departure of the people that I knew.

[Griffins]

All former Customer Service employees are gone.
The Vice President is gone.
Now the head grader is gone, again, tools of the trade and all.
And the PO Box is no longer valid but they did not think to let anyone know.

Greg, this sounds a lot like Global a couple of years ago.

[Bicem]

Originally Posted by Griffins

Greg, this sounds a lot like Global a couple of years ago.

yikes, if PSA is the only (somewhat) legit game in town, looks like raw only for me.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

SGC always had a face for the hobby. First Dave, then Sean, then Derek. The remaining graders may be fine, but there is no face to the company and the face was what made it more user friendly. Besides, there is no grader in the industry that I trust more than Derek. He was born to grade.

Yeah, too bad they don't have Joe Orlando as the face of their company.

[Jacklitsch]

Originally Posted by Bicem

Yikes, if PSA is the only (somewhat) legit game in town, looks like raw only for me.

+1

[Orioles1954]

People are born to grade baseball cards? It's not like it's THAT tough to do.

[calvindog]

People are also born to file baseball cards down.

[Orioles1954]

Jeff, are we talking about the same person?

[calvindog]

Oh heavens no, I'm just speaking in generalities. I think that the idea that grading baseball cards is some sort of rocket science is laughable.

[familytoad]

Yeah...grading really isnt that hard to do.
I think the TPG's real challenge is to get its customers coming back for more.

Making a pizza aint hard either but there are some pizzarias that I wont be going back to...but some do embrace the customer service aspect of their business with the urgency that it deserves. I go back to those.

While its not a business requirement to post on a public forum to soothe curious minds, in this case SGC could make some hay (pizza rhetorically) by keeping its customers informed.

I am willing to bet that an awful lot of the TPG users read and post here.
It may not be time to panic but I'd like to hear what's going on at SGC...if for no other reason than for them to build up our confidence in them. This is a pro-SGC board for the most part and maybe we could use a boost.

Say SGC, should we be coming back for more?

[Orioles1954]

Well, I personally know Joe Del Grippo of SGC. He worked a couple of auctions for us and I trained him on our style, policies, etc. Veteran and solid hobbyist with a great baseball background.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by familytoad

Yeah...grading really isnt that hard to do.
I think the TPG's real challenge is to get its customers coming back for more.

Making a pizza aint hard either but there are some pizzarias that I wont be going back to...but some do embrace the customer service aspect of their business with the urgency that it deserves. I go back to those.

Maybe I live in the wrong area, but it seems about 1 in 10 pizza places actually make good pizza.

They could smile at me, give me free sodas and pretend to like the same sports teams as I do........but if the pizza sucks, I won't keep eating there.

[tbob]

HOWEVER, they no longer have the PO Box 6919 in Parsippany. DO NOT mail any submissions there using USPS. Send them all to the office address at 1 Gatehall Dr Suite PO11 Parsippany, NJ 07054 whether it be by USPS, FedEX or UPS


WHAT????????????? I just sent a shipment of 26 GAI cards to crossover to their post office box by registered mail Wednesday. Sure nice of them to let their customers know.

[familytoad]

Maybe my pizza analogy was silly...but my point remains.
So i am not saying you should do business with any place that you dont like just because they are nice to you.
If you have a place you like, dont they still have to try and keep your business...especially if the rumour mill is churning?

We on this board seem to like SGC...it wouldn't take much to boost our confidence in them by letting their customers know how changes at their company would or wouldn't affect their customers.
A paragraph on their website or on this board might suffice.

I sent in a package about a week ago...to the post office box. If my package was returned or otherwise misrouted because they dont use that PO Box anymore i would be beyond disturbed. I checked and they did receive my package and have begun the grading process. I am relieved!
Sounds like TBob, another of their very good customers now has some doubt cast whether his package will be received.
That doubt is preventable...seems as though they have an opportunity to communicate and they haven't. To me that's not a good sign.
Until we hear from them, should we go back for more?

[sb1]

Bob, not a great need to worry, apparently the mail is being forwarded, just another step the in the delivery chain. I sent an overnight to the PO box Tuesday, which the PO still shows as undelivered, yet SGC did finally find that they had it in their possession on Friday.

[barrysloate]

Maybe this would be a good time for collectors to learn to grade their own cards. Like it was said, it's not rocket science. If there were more raw cards and less slabbed ones, the hobby might actually be more fun.

That said, I'm sure you can still send some cards to SGC and receive in return accurately graded ones....hopefully.

[calvindog]

Barry, I asked my pet unicorn about the possibility of people deciding now to simply grade their own cards; he agreed with you.

Unfortunately as we've seen on this board, people use TPG often for one reason: to maximize resale. People bitch when the grades aren't as high as they like -- because they feel they're losing money on a potential resale. I don't think grading one's own cards will fill that void, although how many schmucks do actually grade their own cards even after the card has been slabbed: "FS: 1933 GOUDEY SGC 50 BUT REALLY NM+++++ I GOT SCROOOOWED BY SGC."

Next, as noted above, customer service seems to be the most important attribute of any hobby-related company. After all, Mastro/Legendary is still lauded in some corners of the hobby --- because they send out free catalogs. Never mind that they're ripping people off left and right with their fraud, if they send out a free $2 catalog they are A-OK!

[barrysloate]

Well Jeff, I know it's not going to actually happen, but if you can learn to ride a bicycle, or learn to play chess, you can learn to grade a baseball card.

Maybe high grade high value cards should get a second opinion by a so-called expert...but I see so many low grade $20 cards in holders for I don't know what reason. Collectors get lazy and they want somebody else to do the work for them. Learning all aspects of the hobby is part of the fun, IMO.

[Ease]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

but I see so many low grade $20 cards in holders for I don't know what reason.

Here are a few reasons other than resale: set registries, protection, good looks. I do agree though, Barry, that learning to grade yr own cards is a very important skill to have and a fun process to learn. Funny how what I thought were near mint cards when i was 10 are psa 5 excellent cards today

[Jay Wolt]

Here are a few reasons other than resale: set registries, protection, good looks.

...and uniformity.
If one is collecting a 1933 Goudey set you would want more then just the Babe Ruth
& Lou Gehrig cards slabbed, many would want them all looking the same even if you don't
utilize PSA or SGC's registry.

[barrysloate]

Eric- I guess I've never understood the attraction of the registry. It just seems like a goofy concept to me. Sure, if you have the best set in the hobby I suppose that carries some weight. But who cares if you have the 14th best one? I know the registry is popular, I'm just not a fan.

[Ease]

Its just a way to show off your collection and "compete" with others I guess, similar to the pick-up thread here etc. I personally am not interested either, but some folks go gah-gah over jumping up/down in rank, to each his/her own...

[Leon]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Eric- I guess I've never understood the attraction of the registry. It just seems like a goofy concept to me. Sure, if you have the best set in the hobby I suppose that carries some weight. But who cares if you have the 14th best one? I know the registry is popular, I'm just not a fan.

Barry- Here is my take. Don't think of the registry as baseball card collecting. It isn't. It is a game unto itself. In those terms everything fits well. It's its own game. Very simple. Who can collect the highest number on their plastic wins!!

[HRBAKER]

I don't get the attraction either. Nor have I ever considered the Net54 Monthly Pick-Up thread a competition either. The hobby has passed me by.

[barrysloate]

Good take on it Leon. The way registry sets are collected really is a hobby of its own. And yes, some people do like to compete. When I collected it was a personal thing; I did it for my own enjoyment. I knew some people had a better collection than me, and mine was better than some others. I didn't think about it any more than that.

[J.McMurry]

Barry, I asked my pet unicorn about the possibility of people deciding now to simply grade their own cards; he agreed with you

lol, Jeff could you ask the unicorn to weigh in on the set registries and /or the economy turning around anytime soon?

[Jay Wolt]

Not everyone who's in the registry is doing it for the competition.
I have several sets in PSA & SGC's registry, I can quickly see what
cards I have, what I need and if I should upgrade and what fellow
collectors are doing the same set.

In one of my mid 60's sets on PSA, I'm about 40% and my ranking is #50
so there's 49 people ahead of me and probably about the same behind me.
It doesn't affect me if my set drops a few notches or if I gain a few spots.
There are probably more people using the registries that have this mind set
then the ones that are out for cut-throat competition to advance their #'s

[Robextend]

Originally Posted by Jay Wolt

Not everyone who's in the registry is doing it for the competition. I have several sets in PSA & SGC's registry, I can quickly see what cards I have, what I need and if I should upgrade and what fellow collectors are doing the same set.

+1

[barrysloate]

So some people use the registry to checklist their sets. That's a useful tool.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

So some people use the registry to checklist their sets. That's a useful tool.

It's easier than marking the checklist cards especially if they are slabbed.

[bijoem]

If this has become a grading vs. raw thread.....

put my vote in for 'grading' 100%.

Its not that I care about a grade. Its not that I care about a registry.


It is completely about taking the arrogance and power away from individual dealers. My recollection of the hobby before TPG.... card dealers at shows were somewhat arrogant (all of their cards were 'mint' even if they were EX) - and they all were individual 'authorities'.

Since those days I have met many wonderful, honorable, and trustworthy hobby dealers.

But - I think it is important for a properly functioning hobby to separate the 'grading' from the dealers.

For the same reason - this is why I never like hearing that a grading company is actively involved in selling cards.


As far as SGC.....
it looks like way too many inside people are running for the exit in a short period of time. An eyebrow raiser at least.

[mark evans]

I have only a handful of graded cards but believe third-party grading facilitates long-distance transactions, especially of more valuable cards. Internet photos are nice but no substitute for in-person review. Third-party grading, while imperfect, provides some assurance to buyers who might otherwise have honest disagreements with sellers as to the appropriate grade of a raw card.

[Al C.risafulli]

Interesting perspective, Leon. I've got some sets on various registries, but I've never thought of myself as not being a card collector before.

To me, there are lots of different ways to collect. I could be a team collector, a player collector, a type collector, a set collector, a HOF collector, a graded card collector, a raw collector, a high-grade collector, a low-grade collector, a registry collector. It's all card collecting to me.

Registries have some cool components that have injected a lot of new enjoyment into the hobby for me. I'm not sure where my sets rank - probably pretty low - but I know I like having them on the net in a well-displayed sort of way. I also like the fact that by being on registries, I wind up meeting other people who collect the same sets I do - that's helped me fill in some spaces in my collection, and make a few good friends along the way. I like being able to track my progress when completing a set, and - thanks to mobile technology - to be able to access my sets remotely to see which cards I need. I like being able to scroll through scans on the SGC registry, and I like being able to see pop report data on the PSA registry.

I guess I never understood the desire on the part of some people to disparage ways of collecting that are different from their own. THAT is the only piece of this hobby that I don't get.

Sorry to hijack.

-Al

[Tcards-Please]

Well said Al.

One other thing I like is in the event of fire/theft, there is a way to quickly identify what I had.

It's amazing how some are quick to slam or criticize someone for having slabbed cards, but it seems those same people have some in plastic.

r/
Frank

Originally Posted by Al C.risafulli

Interesting perspective, Leon. I've got some sets on various registries, but I've never thought of myself as not being a card collector before.

To me, there are lots of different ways to collect. I could be a team collector, a player collector, a type collector, a set collector, a HOF collector, a graded card collector, a raw collector, a high-grade collector, a low-grade collector, a registry collector. It's all card collecting to me.

Registries have some cool components that have injected a lot of new enjoyment into the hobby for me. I'm not sure where my sets rank - probably pretty low - but I know I like having them on the net in a well-displayed sort of way. I also like the fact that by being on registries, I wind up meeting other people who collect the same sets I do - that's helped me fill in some spaces in my collection, and make a few good friends along the way. I like being able to track my progress when completing a set, and - thanks to mobile technology - to be able to access my sets remotely to see which cards I need. I like being able to scroll through scans on the SGC registry, and I like being able to see pop report data on the PSA registry.

I guess I never understood the desire on the part of some people to disparage ways of collecting that are different from their own. THAT is the only piece of this hobby that I don't get.

Sorry to hijack.

-Al

[Leon]

For the record I was not trying to disparage folks collecting on the registry, even though it could be taken that way. I just think it's a different kind of collecting, and at the top, doesn't seem to be about the cards as much as the plastic. Sorry if I offended anyone.

For the record too, most of my valuable cards are slabbed.....I have nothing against slabbing and authentication.

[ethicsprof]

to each his own, in the area of collecting, makes perfect sense to me, particularly when we add the qualifier---as long as we treat each other well in the midst of our collecting.
i know of a curmudgeonly professor type(quite handsome it is told) who actually frames every single
type card which he collects and then displays them on wall after wall.

To each his own--with qualifier.
all the best,
barry

[sox1903wschamp]

This thread has gone off in as many different directions as the Boston T Green Line

So I will comment on Registry collecting. I will never participate and that is a personal choice but I like to buy graded when the registry competition dries up, the price falls and then crack them out to put nice looking cards in my sets. Not 9's but nice looking 6, 7 and 8's on 50's and 60's. I think because of the number, some people will take a worse looking 8 over a 7 etc and I am there to pick up the scraps. Just a general observation.

The registry is a passion and that is always good for our hobby if used in a positive way and I agree with prior posters in this thread that it can be used in other ways besides the number on the plastic.

[Al C.risafulli]

All due respect, Leon, I think you're mixing registry collecting with high-grade card investing, and I think those are two very, very different things.

There are cert buyers out there, for sure, and I agree that with those people, they sometimes seem to be as concerned with the number and the GPA than the cards in their set. When I encounter people like that, it makes me think of those guys with showrooms full of classic automobiles that they'll never drive.

But the overwhelming majority of people I've met who use the registries to supplement their collecting are passionate, knowledgeable card collectors.

For the record, I don't see anything inherently "wrong" with either approach, BTW. I have a collection of vinyl records. It numbers about 4000-5000. I am a terrible record collector. I have no idea what I am doing. When I buy used records, I want them to be in great condition - so that I can go home and play them. I don't care about their rarity, I'm not trying to complete anything, I have no focus, I'm just buying stuff I think I'd like. I have 1970s punk records and 1960s opera records, rare 7" vinyl and mass-produced Readers Digest compilations. "True" record collectors would cringe if they saw my records, mostly because I don't know how to collect like they do. When I spin them on the turntable, though, I'd suspect that the music moves me in the same way as it does the "true" collector.

-Al

[Al C.risafulli]

Barry, that's such a coincidence - I know a professor who collects in very much the same way.

Can't be the same guy, though, because I understand the professor I know is quite ugly.

-Al

[ethicsprof]

when you get a chance, do put me in touch with him.
i'll make sure the two get together so they can enjoy those great pieces of
cardboard and fabulous discussions of heideggerean epistemology.
all the best, ole friend.
always great hearing from you.

barry

[barrysloate]

Hi Joe- I know what you are saying and TPG does take some of that power away that less scrupulous dealers had over collectors. And I don't doubt that certain high value cards should be graded. But now that power has shifted to the graders and authenticators, and the balance is a little skewed again. I would like to see more collectors learning the nuances of grading themselves, and I would like to see more raw vintage sets, such as a T206 in Good to Very Good condition.

I for one think the graders wield an awful lot of power.

[calvindog]

I agree 100% with what Al said. I've got some Registry sets that help me to keep track of the cards, to know what my average condition of the cards in a set are, etc. And it allows me to be in touch with others who collect the cards I do. I also have the great majority of my cards not in any Registry set -- but they are slabbed for a variety of reasons. And I love my lower graded rare cards at least as much as my high graded Registry cards.

As for the argument that the guys who are looking to buy high end graded cards are not true lovers of the cards, I'd ask them if they've spoken to Don Spence about baseball. You can actually love the game, love the cards and, at the same time, want the highest graded cards possible. Really.

[glchen]

As for TPG's and the plastic, I think they'll always be necessary especially for prewar. I think I have a fairly good idea about grading, but I have a hard time authenticating cards (see my posts asking if various cards are authentic). I know the general rules for authentication, but if it's a higher value card, I sleep a lot better at night if I know a reputable TPG has authenticated the card. This is the same with altered and trimmed (and rebacked) cards, I am not good at seeing this unless it is really obvious.

Regarding registries, I think they are a really good checklist function as others have mentioned. This is really useful if you are a master player set collector, as the registry can help you figure out the wacky cards for the player you are missing.

[aro13]

I have quite a few sets on the registry and find it beneficial for the reason most have mentioned. I have been offered and made some great trades because of people contacting me through the registry. I have also found out information from those collectors that I would not have found out anywhere else.

In my experience, even the "good" dealers and auction houses tended to overgrade their cards at least that was what I found when I submitted most of my raw pre-war purchases to SGC and PSA for grading.

[E93]

Originally Posted by Jay Wolt

Not everyone who's in the registry is doing it for the competition.
I have several sets in PSA & SGC's registry, I can quickly see what
cards I have, what I need and if I should upgrade and what fellow
collectors are doing the same set.

+1
JimB

[E93]

Originally Posted by Al C.risafulli

Interesting perspective, Leon. I've got some sets on various registries, but I've never thought of myself as not being a card collector before.

To me, there are lots of different ways to collect. I could be a team collector, a player collector, a type collector, a set collector, a HOF collector, a graded card collector, a raw collector, a high-grade collector, a low-grade collector, a registry collector. It's all card collecting to me.

Registries have some cool components that have injected a lot of new enjoyment into the hobby for me. I'm not sure where my sets rank - probably pretty low - but I know I like having them on the net in a well-displayed sort of way. I also like the fact that by being on registries, I wind up meeting other people who collect the same sets I do - that's helped me fill in some spaces in my collection, and make a few good friends along the way. I like being able to track my progress when completing a set, and - thanks to mobile technology - to be able to access my sets remotely to see which cards I need. I like being able to scroll through scans on the SGC registry, and I like being able to see pop report data on the PSA registry.

I guess I never understood the desire on the part of some people to disparage ways of collecting that are different from their own. THAT is the only piece of this hobby that I don't get.

Sorry to hijack.

-Al

Well said Al.
JimB

[E93]

Originally Posted by Al C.risafulli

I have a collection of vinyl records. It numbers about 4000-5000. I am a terrible record collector. I have no idea what I am doing. When I buy used records, I want them to be in great condition - so that I can go home and play them. I don't care about their rarity, I'm not trying to complete anything, I have no focus, I'm just buying stuff I think I'd like. I have 1970s punk records and 1960s opera records, rare 7" vinyl and mass-produced Readers Digest compilations. "True" record collectors would cringe if they saw my records, mostly because I don't know how to collect like they do. When I spin them on the turntable, though, I'd suspect that the music moves me in the same way as it does the "true" collector.

-Al

I have a vinyl collection too that sounds similar to yours, though not as big. I also just buy what I like and am very unsophisticated as a collector. The most I have spent on a vinyl album was $100 for a rare 1st edition of John Coltrane's outside-LSD induced-big band experiment, Ascension. It is transcendent!
JimB
P.S. Well preserved vinyl sounds better than any digital format too.